i asked this elsewhere..

Daredevel7 said:
Ah, yes. As I suspected. Why specifically?
Due to the concept of even trying to fix something in the first place? Due to the concept of trying to make someone rely on their weakest sense? Other?
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all that and dependency.

it does NOT cure hearing. people still have issues.
 
posts from hell said:
all that and dependency.

it does NOT cure hearing. people still have issues.
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Nope it doesn't. Hate that assumption. I don't like all of the concepts I stated plus dependency on the CI as you said.

However, to me..the CI doesn't HAVE to be perceived that way.

It would be so much better for everyone if it wasn't.
 
Daredevel7 said:
Nope it doesn't. Hate that assumption. I don't like all of the concepts I stated plus dependency on the CI as you said.

However, to me..the CI doesn't HAVE to be perceived that way.

It would be so much better for everyone if it wasn't.
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Exactly. But AGB and all that continue to put out that propaganda. And they have their little deaf people going around saying its the best thing that ever happened to them and they couldnt live without the CI.... sigh.

How do we stop that?
 
Daredevel7 said:
Question for everyone. Would it change anything if the CI surgery had no deaths, no infections, NOTHING at all? Perfect record. You'd be okay with it for little kids?
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There is still anesthesia risks.

I have a better question for you: Why don't they invent a powerful hearing aid that is equal or better than CI???
 
posts from hell said:
Exactly. But AGB and all that continue to put out that propaganda. And they have their little deaf people going around saying its the best thing that ever happened to them and they couldnt live without the CI.... sigh.

How do we stop that?
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I'll get back to you on that. I know one thing for sure. It's definitely not working by simply yelling out "CI is bad! CI is bad!". I think deep down, most of us know that CI is NOT that horrible, so it makes us have less credibility. So I think it has the opposite effect on those who are the most responsible for child implantees: the parents.

By the way, don't take that "can't live without the CI" seriously. Many people say that about their cell phones.
 
posts from hell said:
Exactly. But AGB and all that continue to put out that propaganda. And they have their little deaf people going around saying its the best thing that ever happened to them and they couldnt live without the CI.... sigh.

How do we stop that?
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You cannot stop it... but, you can work to correct it.

I propose we fight fire with fire. They have their enormously expensive CI implant. We can offer the enormously expensive ASL implant. Assuming the cost of a CI is $50,000. We will charge $50,000 to implant a full and complete ASL language chip inside each child's brain. This will allow the child full and complete access to language and knowledge. Although the child will still need to learn English (just like with a CI), they will be 10 times further ahead in their education and be stronger, more confident individuals.

Then we will proclaim in all the countries newspapers that a miraculous new implant is available for the deaf children that will give them unprecedented access to language and knowledge. research will be done to "prove" our point, studies will be done to "show" success... We will also show how there is NO risk of meningitis, NO risk of death from surgery, NO risk of implant rejection, and NEVER any need for explanation.

The "ASL chip" is really an allegory for for the teaching of ASL.
 
Beach girl said:
Pacemakers are foreign objects. People with broken bones sometimes end up with screws and metal plates holding the bones together. My brother-in-law had brain surgery a while ago (about 3 years ago) and now has a small metal plate in his head.

Thousands of people have foreign objects in their bodies. The vast majority of them have no problem with these objects.

I'm not advocating for or against a CI for any given person, just saying that evaluating the particular risk is important. That would include knowing the details of how the risks might have changed with improved technology.

Cheetah, right. I get what you're saying about gauging the risk before you do the 2nd CI. Everyone has a different risk/benefit analysis.
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You can't compare having CI with other stuff inside you keeps you alive and healthy. Screws and metal plates hold bones together is needed to heal the bones. Pacemaker is needed keep heart beating and person alive, etc.

What does CI do to you make you heal, healthy, alive? It doesn't.
 
Buffalo said:
There is still anesthesia risks.

I have a better question for you: Why don't they invent a powerful hearing aid that is equal or better than CI???
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Actually, I know why.
1) It can damage your residual hearing.
2) You can make it louder and louder, but when you have a severe lack of hair cells that are responsible for a certain frequency, you simply just can't hear it. Example: A really powerful HA would enable you to hear low frequency sounds better and clearer, but you still can't hear those pesky high frequency sounds.
This is why they resorted to frequency transposition. For those who cannot hear high frequency, the HA would convert high frequency sounds to lower frequency. However, this means you would use the whole spectrum of sounds squished into a more narrow range. This can cause a lot of different things to hear similar, even though they are not.

Hope that explains it.

And the anesthesia risks were included in my "No Risk at all" scenario.

My scenario was to try to see if it was JUST the risk that bothered people. Apparently not. It's more than that for some people.
 
posts from hell said:
Exactly. But AGB and all that continue to put out that propaganda. And they have their little deaf people going around saying its the best thing that ever happened to them and they couldnt live without the CI.... sigh.

How do we stop that?
Click to expand...

Yes, AGB and the likes need to butt out and stay out. Where are the choices for the deaf kids? The CI routine really takes the choices away from the deaf people.

If I have a child, I am sure there will be uproar if I implanted my child with ASL chip. Same idea in reverse.
 
Daredevel7 said:
I'll get back to you on that. I know one thing for sure. It's definitely not working by simply yelling out "CI is bad! CI is bad!". I think deep down, most of us know that CI is NOT that horrible, so it makes us have less credibility. So I think it has the opposite effect on those who are the most responsible for child implantees: the parents.

By the way, don't take that "can't live without the CI" seriously. Many people say that about their cell phones.
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Alright I'll just downplay this: http://www.alldeaf.com/1763278-post168.html
 
Speedy Hawk said:
You can't compare having CI with other stuff inside you keeps you alive and healthy. Screws and metal plates hold bones together is needed to heal the bones. Pacemaker is needed keep heart beating and person alive, etc.

What does CI do to you make you heal, healthy, alive? It doesn't.
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True, you cannot compare getting a CI with other types of surgeries. It has to be taken by itself and compared with auditory choices (HA, CI, or perhaps the choice of no technology).

You first need to figure out what a minimum CI success is - ex: ability to understand spoken language, or just hearing environment sounds?

Second you need to figure out if a CI would be "better" than other options - Ex: upgrading to a more powerful HA or perhaps accepting being completely deaf.

Third you need to figure out if the general risk of surgery is acceptable - ex: the risk of facial paralasis, menegitis, infections, implant rejections, ect...

Only a fully aware adult can work through these and come to a conclusion.
 
Daredevel7 said:
Ah yes that.. well.... there's always THOSE type of people.... Just saying that some people may use that phrase and not REALLY mean it.

Apparently, this guy did. Didn't he get over it and go to ASL camp like a few weeks later?
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few months yeah.. but i'm just saying that there are people like that out there. Many of them.
 
Speedy Hawk said:
You can't compare having CI with other stuff inside you keeps you alive and healthy. Screws and metal plates hold bones together is needed to heal the bones. Pacemaker is needed keep heart beating and person alive, etc.

What does CI do to you make you heal, healthy, alive? It doesn't.
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Exactly!! A pacemaker is a medical necessity if someone's going to die without one. What child's going to die if they didn't get a CI and, oh the horrors - get a HA instead (or nothing, for that matter)?
 
Daredevel7 said:
Actually, I know why.
1) It can damage your residual hearing.
2) You can make it louder and louder, but when you have a severe lack of hair cells that are responsible for a certain frequency, you simply just can't hear it. Example: A really powerful HA would enable you to hear low frequency sounds better and clearer, but you still can't hear those pesky high frequency sounds.
This is why they resorted to frequency transposition. For those who cannot hear high frequency, the HA would convert high frequency sounds to lower frequency. However, this means you would use the whole spectrum of sounds squished into a more narrow range. This can cause a lot of different things to hear similar, even though they are not.

Hope that explains it.

And the anesthesia risks were included in my "No Risk at all" scenario.

My scenario was to try to see if it was JUST the risk that bothered people. Apparently not. It's more than that for some people.
Click to expand...

No, I am talking about a different kind of HA type that doesn't amplify sounds, but transfer sounds to brain stem via a type of wave. The kind that bypass the cochlear completely.

What would the people say if I want my hearing child to wear an implanted ASL chip or even just a type of ASL chip is like hearing aid (no need for surgery)? I knew they would criticized me because they think hearing people are superior to the deaf people.
 
AlleyCat said:
Exactly!! A pacemaker is a medical necessity if someone's going to die without one. What child's going to die if they didn't get a CI and, oh the horrors - get a HA instead (or nothing, for that matter)?
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Exactly. Doesn't make sense to compare cos totally opposite each other.
 
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