i asked this elsewhere..

Beach girl said:
All righty then. Agree to disagree and let's move on.
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there's nothing to disagree because it's unfactual. I'll make it clear for you once again - we are against parents choosing CI primarily because if they believe it will fix everything. We are against audist attitude.

and we are NOT against parents choosing CI as long as they don't have audist view.

if you cannot understand that... well then you should sit back and listen instead of blindly defending certain people. It's just as bad as a black person defending Klu Klux Klan and saying - "hey... it's free speech. Amendment One!!!"
 
DeafCaroline said:
A hearing aid ranges from $800 to $2000, a cochlear implant about $30,000. Which would bring forth a bigger profit margin? Of course they are going to push the implant without giving hearing aids a chance first. What really bugs me is their advertising deliberately leaving out any mention of sign language...as if they want parents to believe it's not necessary, their child is suddenly hearing with CIs.

If the cochlear implant industry were at least honest and acknowledging that even with implants, kids are still deaf and it would be to their benefit to feel comfortable and fluent in both hearing and deaf worlds, then I wouldn't be so leery of CIs in babies.
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I've always wanted to get digital hearing aids for myself, however VESID and Medicare refused to pay for the coverage of HA. WTF? They must be dumbassed than we ever thought.
 
Jiro said:
so.... you've been wearing HA since 31 years old and I've been wearing HA since 3 years old... the big box thing on my chest that I had to carry with suspenders.

1. I've never heard any natural sound like you did for 31 years.
2. You've never had to do speech therapy or any of those kind of auditory/oral intensive therapy classes for decades in school
3. You've never had to deal with what many deaf students deal with in schools
4. You've never had to deal with difficulty in communication especially with your parents and families during your childhood life
5. You don't see any needs to learn sign language nor interact with deaf community

so.... I don't know what do you know about deaf culture or deaf issue. The only thing you relate with us is that you wear HA and that's it. Perhaps you should stop fooling yourself that you "feel our pain". You should try to open your mind to learn and understand our deaf perspective in hearing world... not medical perspective by equating HA/CI with pacemaker or prosthetic leg. There's no cultural groups, no schools, no language system, or whatsoever for pacemaker or prosthetic leg...

In case you didn't know - we find it extremely insulting and demeaning when you keep comparing it that way. We're not holding it against you but you're making it very difficult for us to carry on without feeling disdain toward you.
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Been there and done that lol.
 
shel90 said:
I got constantly criticized for not using my voice correctly but then when I do, I got "Oh, you must be so smart because you speak so well!"

WTF?!
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I hate hate hate that. :P I've had people tell me the same thing.
 
Buffalo said:
I don't think late-deafened people were ever punished for not being able to say the word right. I was punished in the preschool for not able to say 'k' in 'cow'. I was made to sit on the floor behind the teacher while she had another kid to speech-trained. Well, the teacher ended up making the next few kids sit on the floor with me. She probably had a bad day but still that doesn't excuse her from that.
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One of my earliest memories is of my mother slapping me during home speech therapy because I couldn't say a word correctly.
 
WOW!! I am so glad my parents and speech therapist was understanding and patience with me. I have never been slapped, or punished for not saying something right. They just worked with me more on those areas.
 
shel90 said:
I got constantly criticized for not using my voice correctly but then when I do, I got "Oh, you must be so smart because you speak so well!"

WTF?!
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I really hate that! Even my own mum says that too me. She said I can speak cos I am intelligent and Deaf can't speak means not intelligent. I told her your insulting me (I rarely speak public) and other Deaf people by saying that. I know plenty Deaf people can't speak and is very intelligent! Much more intelligent than I am. Mum still refuses to believe that after 24 years with me. She still knows NOTHING about deafness whatsoever.
 
Jiro said:
there's nothing to disagree because it's unfactual. I'll make it clear for you once again - we are against parents choosing CI primarily because if they believe it will fix everything. We are against audist attitude.

and we are NOT against parents choosing CI as long as they don't have audist view.

if you cannot understand that... well then you should sit back and listen instead of blindly defending certain people. It's just as bad as a black person defending Klu Klux Klan and saying - "hey... it's free speech. Amendment One!!!"
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While I won't stand in the parent's way when it come to getting their child implanted, I strongly recomend learning ASL instead of going the Oral route. Many of us are ex-oralists. There's a reason why so many prelingual Deaf are against Oralism.
 
deafskeptic said:
While I won't stand in the parent's way when it come to getting their child implanted,
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that is where I can agree to disagree with others on that part. I have no problem with it especially with Grendel and FJ since they're already doing ASL and BiBi approach.

I strongly recomend learning ASL instead of going the Oral route. Many of us are ex-oralists. There's a reason why so many prelingual Deaf are against Oralism.
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and that is precisely where I cannot agree to disagree only if parents opt for CI and not even consider ASL route. This is where I have a bit of problem with CSign on this part. SEE ≠ ASL
 
Jiro said:
there's nothing to disagree because it's unfactual. I'll make it clear for you once again - we are against parents choosing CI primarily because if they believe it will fix everything. We are against audist attitude.

and we are NOT against parents choosing CI as long as they don't have audist view.

if you cannot understand that... well then you should sit back and listen instead of blindly defending certain people. It's just as bad as a black person defending Klu Klux Klan and saying - "hey... it's free speech. Amendment One!!!"
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AMEN. We're not against the CI in of itself. We're against the " Gotta oralize and make them JUST LIKE a hearing kid" mentality, that so often goes along with it. If the audis and docs and experts advised parents that YES, your kid can grow up...*GASP* BILINGAL in both speech AND sign, you wouldn't even hear all that much fussing from the Deaf community! Think about it this way.....It's basicly the hearing society insisting that a kid MUST function normally. It would be like educating a kid who's gifted in math but defiencent in English, by ignoring their math gifts and concentrating solely on their defineicy in English......or like educating a blind/low vision kid by ignoring the fact that Braille and tactile learning as well as other alternative methods are a strengh instead of exclusively focusing on trying to rehabiliate the child to be a "faux" sighted kid.
 
Beach girl said:
No, it doesn't. I feel for everyone who had terrible childhood experiences like that.

Still, can't we keep the "all" in "AllDeaf?" There are a lot of late-deafened people who post in the "adjusting to late deafness" thread, and never post elsewhere, in part because of so much hostility toward those who are late-deafened.

Jiro asked this:



Well, yes, I did, have to learn how to pronounce words - and entire languages - without knowing clearly what they should sound like. I knew what *English* sounded like, but the other four languages I had to learn without being able to hear all the sounds clearly. Spanish I knew to some degree because I had studied it in high school, but learning to speak it at the professional level was a whole 'nother ball-game. The other three languages (French, Portuguese, Serbo-Croatian) were all completely new to me.

And BECAUSE I had to learn those languages for my career, that was fairly stressful. My livelihood and my income depended on doing it sucessfully.

And I did it, despite having a hearing loss (moderate at first, more severe later on). So here I am, more than 30 years later, and if there is some late-deafened person who comes on the forum thinking "Oh no, my life is over now!", I'm one who can say "No it isn't, you can still do what you planned and dreamed of, you have options, I've been through it."
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Ah....you do kind of understand. For us, learning English was like learning a foriegn language for you. Even those of us who have really decent speech, still have to remember how to pronounce the sounds accurately. To this day, I still have to remember how to pronounce the "th" blend, as well as remember things like pitch, volumne, modulation (god even TODAY I still get admonished for talking too loudly :() And yet, even with all that, it really does not allow for unfettered access to the hearing world, as some oralists (ie the auditory verbalists) claim.
Also, I think you still don't quite understand. You learned to speak it as a language. There was no Professor Henry Higgins drilling you to SAY the words correctly. The thing is......for dhh kids, learning spoken language is more akin to "the Rain in Spain" that happened to Eliza Doolittle, in My Fair Lady/ Pygmailion.
 
shel90 said:
I am just uncomfortable with the idea of needing sugery for something that is not life-threatening and the CI surgery is that.
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I will never get CIs. I would not get CIs before I lost all of my hearing, as the surgery destroys the natural hearing you have left and throws an electronic signal at your brain that it is not guaranteed to ever comprehend. I feel the same way as Shel90 about not getting CIs since being deaf is not life-threatening. That's why I will never get CIs even if I lost the rest of the little hearing I have. As for other people getting it for themselves, that's up to them.

deafdyke said:
...a lot of the oral/.mainstream sucesses although they have achieved well and can hear and talk, STILL say they don't feel like they fit in to the hearing world. That says something. The goal of auditory verbal is for kids to grow up in typical listening and learning situtions ....but yet they don't feel like they fit in with the hearing world.....that really says something!
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I am one of the oral/mainstream successes. I don't feel like I fit in that world and I am joining the Deaf World, because that is being true to myself.
 
deafdyke said:
I actually think you're putting the cart before the horse. You don't even know how he will respond to hearing aids yet. If he has severe loss, chances are very good that he may be able to respond well to aids.
As to the origonal topic, I think you have to be very child centered. Offer ASL, but ALSO offer speech therapy....see how your kid responds.
Going voice off is pretty rare, even for Deaf of Deaf.
Offer every and anything you can.......
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I absolutely second this! Offer anything and everything you can according to to his abilities. A full toolbox approach could only benefit him later. As he ages, he may find that he prefers to sign, but having oral skills may be useful in certain situations. Doesn't mean that you value one over the other. It just means that you're willing to give him opportunities. Regardless, stay with the ASL. At this age, he needs to aquire language, and, ASL is the best way to get him there.
 
I have a question:

Why was there even mention of the CI in this thread, when the Mom has decided against implantation for her baby? Seems a bit disingenuous to the Mom to bring it up and debate it to death.

The little tyke seems to be benefitting from his HAs so lets just stick with this premise, shall we?
 
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I suspect that the poster made a mistake. I've posted on the wrong thread before.
 
Oceanbreeze said:
I have a question:

Why was there even mention of the CI in this thread, when the Mom has decided against implantation for her baby? Seems a bit disingenuous to the Mom to bring it up and debate it to death.

The little tyke seems to be benefitting from his HAs so lets just stick with this premise, shall we?
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Because she asked about it in another thread.
 
Oceanbreeze said:
I have a question:

Why was there even mention of the CI in this thread, when the Mom has decided against implantation for her baby? Seems a bit disingenuous to the Mom to bring it up and debate it to death.

The little tyke seems to be benefitting from his HAs so lets just stick with this premise, shall we?
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B/c (sacasm) We ALL know that the CI is going to be THE thing that will magically equalize deaf kids! (/sarcasm) I do think that parents should keep implantation on the table as an option, for later on. I mean it's not a GOTTA have.....But, it's also possible that the kid may have a progressive loss or may have auditory nereopathy (which doesn't respond to hearing aids...but then again, AN kids tend to be identifyed early on) or may have low speech perception even with HA. And the thing is.......unless you're talking about a deep profound loss, a kid will do well. Until recently it wasn't that unusal for even kids with severe losses not to get aided until we were THREE (when they could perform play audiotremy) and we developed speech.
 
Oceanbreeze said:
I have a question:

Why was there even mention of the CI in this thread, when the Mom has decided against implantation for her baby? Seems a bit disingenuous to the Mom to bring it up and debate it to death.

The little tyke seems to be benefitting from his HAs so lets just stick with this premise, shall we?
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it began with rolling7
 
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