The Rebel Flag

[C.C.Sinned]

Just because my liberal views have come across on here does not make me liberal. I'm actually very moderate.

Slaves were first brought over on Danish ships.

Liberal view make you a liberal...
ban that flag as well
My point is this entire country was built on slavery not just the south. Just because some people assoiate the CBF as rasisit. Only proves how much more we need to teach about the war

 

[AJ]

and to be very honest i dont know how id feel about someone flying a nazi flag. if it was flown with hate hell yeah id say take that flag down. but if it was someone like me trying to change the meaning of it...id have to think about it. like i said to be honest i dont know how i would feel about that.

 

[Steel X]

I think it was the spanish ships that bought the slaves.

 

[AJ]

I think it was the spanish ships that bought the slaves.

i live in a spanish state.

 

[Mookie]

mld u still haven't answered my question, i asked u why u want to keep the flag as a racist statement. it seems u like it that way. why dont u want to change its meaning?

Did I say I do or keep the Nazi flag? No, I was trying to explian the points but somehow you were streaming out but did not read carefully or can't think straight....

My wife is from South Africa and she had bad experiences with White People in South Africa. She witnessed how white police officer abusing black people. I do clearly understand how she feels. My mother-in-law was first time scared to see my white face that reminds her horrible experience with white power policitians and white police officers. Finally, she is happy with me as being son-in-law who does not view in hated world.

How about your pride of rebal flag for protecting the nation and the black slaves?

 

[apathrev]

Of course liberal views make you liberal, but I do not have solely liberal views. As I've said, I'm very moderate. Because I like Bush, does that make me Liberal? No. Don't think you know my entire way of thinking just because of posts I've made on an internet message board.

I never said ban the flag, but it is closely associated with racism, and I do not think it is possible to change that perception at this point in time. Is it possible to change society's view of the cross or swastika? I don't think it is.

Pre-United States was built on slavery, but it died out in the North shortly after the Revolutionary War, because a change of major industries. During all of the 1800s, the South depended on slave labor to support its economy.

 

[Steel X]

i live in a spanish state.

Yep. Florida was orginally owned by a spanish colony and named the state "Florida" after the flowers 'til the english colony made a deal with the spanish colony and bought its land when the spanish needs alot of money for their own land anyway lol

 

[AJ]

Did I say I do or keep the Nazi flag? No, I was trying to explian the points but somehow you were streaming out but did not read carefully or can't think straight....

My wife is from South Africa and she had bad experiences with White People in South Africa. She witnessed how white police officer abusing black people. I do clearly understand how she feels. My mother-in-law was first time scared to see my white face that reminds her horrible experience with white power policitians and white police officers. Finally, she is happy with me as being son-in-law who does not view in hated world.

How about your pride of rebal flag for protecting the nation and the black slaves?

there are white cops that beat the hell out of black people in the united states of america.

 

[AJ]

i tell u what dude....if RR or Alex or any other mod tells me to get rid of my southern cross flag, ill get rid of it.

 

[apathrev]

I think it was the spanish ships that bought the slaves.

I think you might be confusing the Spanish enslavement of the natives in the West Indies. But what you say does ring a bell, I'll research it and get back to you, You might be right. I do know that first the Dutch dominated the slave trade, but I did not look up the first. My mistake.

 

[C.C.Sinned]

Lets let everyone form their own conclusions...

History for Slavery in America
Abolition and Slavery

 

[Steel X]

there are white cops that beat the hell out of black people in the united states of america.

saw some videos of those things happening alot and they say they have reasons for it because either that they say they didnt do it (even though they are stupid enough to know that they were caught on tape!) or that the black man was threatening them or whatever like that but mind you, it can be black women too even if the black woman was unarmed, she would still be beaten to a pulp 'til she stops screaming.

I just hate those kind of crap and those racist pigs shall just rot in hell while the devils just laugh at them being their own slaves!

 

[AJ]

saw some videos of those things happening alot and they say they have reasons for it because either that they say they didnt do it (even though they are stupid enough to know that they were caught on tape!) or that the black man was threatening them or whatever like that but mind you, it can be black women too even if the black woman was unarmed, she would still be beaten to a pulp 'til she stops screaming.

I just hate those kind of crap and those racist pigs shall just rot in hell while the devils just laugh at them being their own slaves!

mld said that his wife was traumatized from seeing white cops beat up people in her country. and i was just saying that it happens here too. not just where is wife is from

 

[Eve]

Let me assist your proper English langauge, boyish reballious surfer

Oh puleeez don’t get me started….the endless possibilities. Where should I begin? *shakes head in disgust* mld, you are certainly not one to be doling out advice on proper grammatical context.

By the way, I am 45% of German....

I’m a Heinz 57, so?

My wife is from South Africa and she had bad experiences with White People in South Africa. She witnessed how white police officer abusing black people. I do clearly understand how she feels. My mother-in-law was first time scared to see my white face that reminds her horrible experience with white power policitians and white police officers. Finally, she is happy with me as being son-in-law who does not view in hated world.

Your wife’s experiences, regardless of how horrible and honest they may be, have absolutely NOTHING to do with the matter at hand. Apartheid was a terrible thing, but America is not South Africa, and I doubt South Africa is going to quit waving their flag because of past history either.

 

[Mookie]

Oh puleeez don’t get me started….the endless possibilities. Where should I begin? *shakes head in disgust* mld, you are certainly not one to be doling out advice on proper grammatical context.

I’m a Heinz 57, so?

Your wife’s experiences, regardless of how horrible and honest they may be, have absolutely NOTHING to do with the matter at hand. Apartheid was a terrible thing, but America is not South Africa, and I doubt South Africa is going to quit waving their flag because of past history either.

Eve, you keep talking. Everyone knows that you are a piece of :bsflag:

You surely lucky that you do not have experience in South Africa. One of the day, you will be sorry if that happen to you in future...

 

[C.C.Sinned]

Eve, you keep talking. Everyone knows that you are a piece of :bsflag:

You surely lucky that you do not have experience in South Africa. One of the day, you will be sorry if that happen to you in future...

what does south africa have to do with the Confederate Battle Flag?

Btw the way this is how REBEL is spelled.

 

[Mookie]

mld said that his wife was traumatized from seeing white cops beat up people in her country. and i was just saying that it happens here too. not just where is wife is from

AJ, she is fine with me in U.S. Nobody would harm my wife since everyone afraid of me as a tall large husband. Good thing that no body would annoy my wife in my old rural town. Moreover, everyone in my large family always welcomes her.

We can easily file any lawsuit againist enforcement officers for discriminating againist us. That is much better than old South Africa Justice System...

This is old South Africa Flag

This is a new proud South Africa Flag.

 

[Mookie]

what does south africa have to do with the Confederate Battle Flag?

Btw the way this is how REBEL is spelled.

One down and One to go.

You are a tough, stubbon boyish rebel, and I rest my case....

 

[C.C.Sinned]

A interesting essay I have found:

Confederate Flags are honorable and legitimate symbols of our American history. We recognize that to some people Flags of the South represent nothing more than icons of hatred. To those people we extend a friendly hand of sympathy and understanding. Their ignorance is nothing more than the result of maleducation (the prefix mal meaning defective) and misinformation and is a direct indictment of those institutions entrusted with the serious task of education, higher education and news dissemination.

Many historic symbols have been misused by various groups. Whether the Christian Cross or the Saint Andrew’s Cross of Dixie, the symbol is not at fault. These symbols have a deeper meaning that transcends their use by ignorant folk. Understand that the Flags of the Confederacy were legitimate banners of a Nation and culture that struggled for liberty, the sanctity of local government and the sovereignty of State government as intended by our Founders in 1776, and guaranteed by our Constitution in 1787, and Bill of Rights in 1791.

Exactly what was it that was done by the Southern people that was illegal? What atrocity or unconstitutional act was committed by these citizens that can possibly justify such stiff animosity against them and their symbols?

Our Declaration of Independence states, " When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinion of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation….That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness." Article X of the Bill of Rights states, " The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." That seems to me to be fairly unambiguous language.

The framers of our founding documents were excellent wordsmiths. They understood the meaning of what they were committing to parchment and posterity. They also understood that the voluntary nature of the union would be the best check against sectional tyranny. The citizens of the States of New York, Rhode Island and Virginia must have held a similar view as each of those States original Constitutions reserved the specific right to secede from the voluntary union. Perhaps New York newspaper editor Horace Greeley (1811-1872) summed it up best when he asked, "If the Declaration of Independence justified the secession of 3 million Colonists in 1776, then why did it not justify the secession of 5 million Southerners from the Union in 1861?"

Too often the accusing finger is pointed and the dreaded S word is thrown down as a gauntlet. But that too is simply an indication of maleducation and ignorance. Slavery was not illegal in the United States until December 18, 1866. Mr. Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation, which took effect January 1, 1863, almost two years after hostilities began, did not free a single slave in the United States. If the Yankee Army was about making men free, why did its Commanding General, U.S. Grant, not free his slaves until December, 1866, and if the Confederacy was about preserving slavery why would General Robert E. Lee not own slaves and be so against the institution? When in the Course of Human Events by Charles Adams is an excellent text that dispels much of the slavery myth. In his Preface he begins: "Many Northern historians and writers who are considered leading authorities on the Civil War have failed, in my opinion, to report the truth as they should have done. It is not that they have deliberately set out to mislead us; rather, they seem to behave like men and women in love. Polybius pointed out the folly of this partisan zeal, and in their persistent devotion to the memory of Lincoln and the Grand Army of the Republic, Northern historians maintain that Lincoln and the North acted with wisdom, virtue, and lofty ideals in instituting and prosecuting the war to end slavery and preserve the Union; but if, as Charles Dickens maintained, the Northern onslaught upon slavery was no more than a piece of specious humbug designed to conceal its desire for economic control over the Southern States – then it just may be that any wisdom, virtue, and lofty ideals were with the South, not the North."

When those Africans, who were placed upon slave ships by their own kind, disembarked in Yankee ports which flag did they gaze upon? The Constitution of the Confederate States of America forbade the importation of slaves, so it couldn’t have been a Confederate Flag. A Confederate Flag never flew above a slave ship. A Confederate Flag never flew above a prison housing innocent citizens. A Confederate Flag was never the authority under which troops raped, pillaged, murdered, and destroyed the property of non-combatant civilians. No, the flag that can be identified with all of these atrocities and more is the Grand Old Flag of the Yankee Union. Which is not the Union as intended by our Founders.

My friends, what we are dealing with here is another in a long list of Yankee myths filled with historical fiction. Like the boy accused of a horrible wrong who places blame upon his brother to save his own hide the apologetic writers of Yankee Historical Fiction have made the myth their own and dare not be accused of being the one to blurt out the truth. Career opportunities and academic advancements are not the best for those who venture from the party line.

The sad truth is that Yankee industrialists, bankers, and merchants saw their gravy train about to be derailed. The United States had the highest import tariffs of any industrial nation. In total, the South generated approximately 75% of the Federal revenue while Yankee New England received approximately 75% of the Federal spending. Just the thought of a duty free Southern competitor was enough to send them into fits as they had already become accustomed to free money from Washington. No matter what the citizens wanted, no matter that this was a nation of law, no matter that it would cost the lives of 600, 000 men and boys, no matter that it would destroy the lives of millions of people. The competition must be stopped at any cost and Mr. Lincoln was just the man for the job. So it was that at every opportunity a convenient fable was manufactured to justify the next escalation of that terrible war. Again quoting from Human Events on the view held by most European journalists comes this rebuke from the British Quarterly Review in 1862, "Fate has indeed taken a malignant pleasure in flouting the admirers of the United States….Every theory to which they paid a special homage…has been successfully repudiated by their favourite statesmen. They were Apostles of Free Trade: America has established a tariff, compared to which our heaviest protection-tariff has been flimsy…she has become a land of passports, of conscriptions, of press censorship and post-office espionage, of bastilles and lettres de cachet…there was little difference between the Government of Mr. Lincoln and the Government of Napoleon III. There was a form of a legislative assembly, where scarcely any dared to oppose, for fear of a charge of treason." And from another British journalist, Karl Marx, "The war between the North and South is a tariff war. The war is further, not for any principle, does not touch the question of slavery, and in fact turns on the Northern lust for sovereignty"

The Confederate Battle Flag (Naval Jack) is recognized the world over as an international symbol against tyranny. It has been present in every war where Southern GI’s were engaged since 1865. It was present as the Berlin Wall fell and there are stories of it being sighted all over Eastern Europe as the Soviet Union collapsed. Only in the United States of America are presumably free people looked down upon or punished for embracing that beautiful bloody Southern Cross.

So tell me, what is it that you find so abhorrent about Confederate Flags? Is it the Flag or is it you? To recognize that banner is for you to recognize the truth. You may not have the courage it takes to do that.
http://www.megaone.com/csa/ConfederateFlags.htm

 

[Mookie]

:sure: :stupid: :gives: