Florida Neighborhood Watch

[Steinhauer]

You do realize that in order to effectuate a citizen's arrest or use Stand-Your-Ground defense, you need to state a reason in police report. This incident occurred on February 26th. That's one full month ago.


Zimmerman was the one who was pursing him. Do you believe Trayvon does not have legal rights to protect himself from Zimmerman because he was on phone with his gf telling her that he's scared and that there was a suspicious man following him?

Did you know about this?


Do you believe that I have a legal right to "Stand My Ground" from a mysterious man chasing after me because he thought I did something suspicious and he happened to be Neighborhood Watchdog?

So he can't have a car chase ... he wasn't having one. He was also in legal possession of a firearm whether it was "policy" or not.

To answer your question, if a man came up to you to inquire what you were doing canvassing his neighbor's property, would you have a right to tackle him and start beating him in the face? because he "scared" you?

BOO

Is that your definition of "stand your ground"?

 

[Jiro]

So he can't have a car chase ... he wasn't having one.

what? He CHASED after him on foot. By doing that, he is not legally justifiable to use "Stand Your Ground". the purpose of "Stand Your Ground" is to protect yourself from harm that occurred to you, not other way around. By chasing after him, all legal justifications were thrown out of window. Only police officers have this legal protection, not armed private citizens.

He was also in legal possession of a firearm whether it was "policy" or not.

whether it was a policy or not? so now you're telling me he's acting like a police with a gun?

This tells me that Zimmerman knowingly and recklessly disregarded Neighborhood Watch policy, 911 dispatcher's "we don't need you to do that" and Florida's Firearm Laws.

To answer your question, if a man came up to you to inquire what you were doing canvassing his neighbor's property, would you have a right to tackle him and start beating him in the face? because he "scared" you?

oh? so now you believe that Zimmerman approached him to inquire him and then all of sudden, Trayvon attacked him?

BOO

Is that your definition of "stand your ground"?

No. I will go by with Florida's legal interpretation of "Stand Your Ground" and I will explain to you why Jeb Bush agreed that it is not applicable in Trayvon case.

The whole purpose of "Stand Your Ground" is to protect yourself from danger that CAME UPON you, not other way around.

Example: You have a justifiable use of deadly force if a person was mugging you or assaulting you.

Example: You DO NOT have a justifiable use of deadly force if you chase after a criminal and shoot him even if he turned around and pointed a knife at you.

In Zimmerman's case, he chased after him and in process, Trayvon was shot therefore "Stand Your Ground" law is not applicable in this case since Zimmerman was not in a dire danger and the crime did not occur to him directly.

You might want to give up trying to quibble around with me on this because I've already discussed at great length with a law student since we're both armed citizens. You forget that in any legal cases, one must have a justifiable reason PRECEDING the incident.

So I ask you again and I'm sure you're going to avoid answering this question again -
Do you believe Trayvon does not have legal rights to protect himself from Zimmerman because he was on phone with his gf telling her that he's scared and that there was a suspicious man following him?

 

[TXgolfer]

what? He CHASED after him on foot. By doing that, he is not legally justifiable to use "Stand Your Ground". the purpose of "Stand Your Ground" is to protect yourself from harm that occurred to you, not other way around. By chasing after him, all legal justifications were thrown out of window. Only police officers have this legal protection, not armed private citizens.


whether it was a policy or not? so now you're telling me he's acting like a police with a gun?

This tells me that Zimmerman knowingly and recklessly disregarded Neighborhood Watch policy, 911 dispatcher's "we don't need you to do that" and Florida's Firearm Laws.


oh? so now you believe that Zimmerman approached him to inquire him and then all of sudden, Trayvon attacked him?


No. I will go by with Florida's legal interpretation of "Stand Your Ground" and I will explain to you why Jeb Bush agreed that it is not applicable in Trayvon case.

The whole purpose of "Stand Your Ground" is to protect yourself from danger that CAME UPON you, not other way around.

Example: You have a justifiable use of deadly force if a person was mugging you or assaulting you.

Example: You DO NOT have a justifiable use of deadly force if you chase after a criminal and shoot him even if he turned around and pointed a knife at you.

In Zimmerman's case, he chased after him and in process, Trayvon was shot therefore "Stand Your Ground" law is not applicable in this case since Zimmerman was not in a dire danger and the crime did not occur to him directly.

You might want to give up trying to quibble around with me on this because I've already discussed at great length with a law student since we're both armed citizens. You forget that in any legal cases, one must have a justifiable reason PRECEDING the incident.

So I ask you again and I'm sure you're going to avoid answering this question again -
Do you believe Trayvon does not have legal rights to protect himself from Zimmerman because he was on phone with his gf telling her that he's scared and that there was a suspicious man following him?

According to the facts we have currently of course....

 

[kokonut]

...but could be subject to change, too.

 

[TXgolfer]

...but could be subject to change, too.

Exactly

 

[Jiro]

According to the facts we have currently of course....

that's right. that's why Zimmerman had no legal justification in the first place.

Let me reiterate FACTS - it stated that Zimmerman told cop he shot Trayvon in self-defense and that's that. Sounds nice and convenient because Zimmerman was all bloody and Trayvon was a hoodie. As far as everybody's concerned, it's an open-shut case because Trayvon attacked Zimmerman and he shot him in self-defense and police saw no reason to see otherwise.

Now here's a big thing - nowhere in there stated that Zimmerman told cop that he was effectuating a citizen's arrest on Trayvor because that would be a whole another major legal mess and further investigation would undoubtedly implicate Zimmerman in manslaughter and some. So does this reeks of police cover-up or a grave incompetence and mishandling? I believe so.

 

[TXgolfer]

Interesting. Haven't seen this on the news

Was Trayvon Martin a Drug Dealer?

EDITED to add, the above link contains some pretty offensive language posted by Trayvon and his friends....If you are offended you might not want to look.

 

[TXgolfer]

that's right. that's why Zimmerman had no legal justification in the first place.

Let me reiterate FACTS - it stated that Zimmerman told cop he shot Trayvon in self-defense and that's that. Sounds nice and convenient because Zimmerman was all bloody and Trayvon was a hoodie. As far as everybody's concerned, it's an open-shut case because Trayvon attacked Zimmerman and he shot him in self-defense and police saw no reason to see otherwise.

Now here's a big thing - nowhere in there stated that Zimmerman told cop that he was effectuating a citizen's arrest on Trayvor because that would be a whole another major legal mess and further investigation would undoubtedly implicate Zimmerman in manslaughter and some. So does this reeks of police cover-up or a grave incompetence and mishandling? I believe so.

Perhaps more will come out. Perhaps the report will be amended. Then again maybe not. I prefer to wait for all the facts. Duke Lacrosse ring a bell? What about Tawana Brawley....

 

[Jiro]

Perhaps more will come out. Perhaps the report will be amended. Then again maybe not. I prefer to wait for all the facts. Duke Lacrosse ring a bell? What about Tawana Brawley....

none of those rings any bell because nobody was raped in this case and this is the case of use of deadly force where Zimmerman had made a series of mistakes. Zimmerman should not have acted like a cop by pursuing after him and he should not have went after him. There's not a single law in Florida that would clear Zimmerman of any wrongdoings because Zimmerman was never in danger in the first place.

"Stand Your Ground" is only applicable when danger came UPON you, not other way around. In Zimmerman's case, he invited himself to danger by ignoring 911 dispatcher, getting out of car, and confronting him.

U.S. News - Florida 'Stand Your Ground' law could complicate Trayvon Martin teen shooting case

Richard Hornsby, an Orlando-based criminal defense attorney, says he thinks the grand jury is likely to indict Zimmerman for manslaughter, a second-degree felony punishable by up to 15 years in prison. Less likely is a more serious charge of second-degree murder, a crime that implies intent and that is punishable by up to life in prison, he said.

This case isn’t even a close call to me. This is a case of a guy trying to be a vigilante,” Hornsby said. “It wasn’t like he was trying to avoid trouble. He brought a firearm to a fistfight.”

“My gut feeling he will ultimately be charged with some type of manslaughter charge,” agreed Philip Sweeting, retired deputy police chief for the Boca Raton Police Department and a law enforcement consultant who has testified in court cases as an expert in police shootings and use of force.

“My gut reaction was this was an accidental discharge,” Sweeting added. “If you put yourself in the shooter’s position and you’re wrestling with this kid and a gun goes off, what are you going to tell the cops?”

According to transcripts of the 911 calls, a police dispatcher tells Zimmerman he doesn’t need to follow the teen, but Zimmerman apparently does anyway. So is he or the teen the one who feels threatened?

“The question again is whether he (Zimmerman) acted reasonably or not. At this point it doesn’t look good for him, but I don’t know what the heck happened and quite frankly no one else does either,” says Jon H. Gutmacher, an Orlando attorney, NRA-certified instructor and author of "Florida Firearms: Law, Use & Ownership."

but yes sure - we can sit and wait for facts to unravel..... and at this point - things ain't looking good for Zimmerman.

 

[TXgolfer]

but yes sure - we can sit and wait for facts to unravel..... and at this point - things ain't looking good for Zimmerman.

No doubt....not at this point.

 

[TXgolfer]

Do have to wonder why almost all of Trayvon's social media is being deleted. What do they have to hide?

 

[Jiro]

Do have to wonder why almost all of Trayvon's social media is being deleted. What do they have to hide?

link?

 

[TXgolfer]

link?

Already posted it friend

 

[Jiro]

Do have to wonder why almost all of Trayvon's social media is being deleted. What do they have to hide?

just saw the link above. interesting. most likely to save him from character assassination.

but the fact still remains that Zimmerman had made a series of mistakes leading to death of teenager thus invalidating his "Stand Your Ground" clause.

 

[TXgolfer]

just saw the link above. interesting. most likely to save him from character assassination.

but the fact still remains that Zimmerman had made a series of mistakes leading to death of teenager thus invalidating his "Stand Your Ground" clause.

Maybe.

 

[Reba]

See Post #96.

Looks like you are trying very hard to prove Zimmerman's innocence.

Point of legal fact:

In our legal system, no has to prove anyone's innocence. It's up to the prosecutor to prove one's guilt.

A defendant is presumed innocent until and if he is proven guilty in a court of law.

Also, a person isn't even a defendant until he's been charged with a crime. In this case, Zimmerman isn't even a defendant because he's not yet been charged with a crime. He's not even a suspect.

Here's the problem: You can't have a suspect or defendant until it's been established that there was a crime committed. That's the first step. First, it has to be determined that there was a crime committed. Then, the prosecution against an individual can proceed.

In this case, it will probably be a grand jury that determines if a crime has been committed, and that Zimmerman should be charged.

 

[Reba]

do you believe Trayvon had a legal rights to defend himself from Zimmerman who had a gun on his hand?

Did Trayvon know that Zimmerman was armed? Did Trayvon see the gun in Zimmerman's hand or did Zimmerman say, "I have a gun"?

 

[Reba]

that's right. that's why Zimmerman had no legal justification in the first place.

Let me reiterate FACTS - it stated that Zimmerman told cop he shot Trayvon in self-defense and that's that. Sounds nice and convenient because Zimmerman was all bloody and Trayvon was a hoodie. As far as everybody's concerned, it's an open-shut case because Trayvon attacked Zimmerman and he shot him in self-defense and police saw no reason to see otherwise.

Now here's a big thing - nowhere in there stated that Zimmerman told cop that he was effectuating a citizen's arrest on Trayvor because that would be a whole another major legal mess and further investigation would undoubtedly implicate Zimmerman in manslaughter and some. So does this reeks of police cover-up or a grave incompetence and mishandling? I believe so.

It does seem that the police dropped the ball on their initial investigation. They really should have looked deeper before closing the case.

 

[rolling7]

The authority will look closer, even the FBI is involved. The problem is that whichever way the evidence leads, people have already made up their mind and won't accept otherwise.

 

[TXgolfer]

Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman's account to police of the Trayvon Martin shooting. - Orlando Sentinel