Florida Neighborhood Watch

[Foxrac]

No one is attacking your post or trolling and no one expects nor wants you to change your opinion either.

We are merely expressing our opinions which of course we are entitled to. A summary of our opinion is that we prefer not to rush to judgement. Always best to wait for all the facts. However is you prefer to jump to conclusions that is your right. I assure you we all want justice in this case, but it would be an injustice to claim Zimmerman is guilty before he is proved guilty.....In my opinion anyway. Our entire criminal justice system is founded in the belief that one is innocent until proved guilty afterall.

In bold, it is true.

for being civil.

 

[TXgolfer]

and you are evidently showing a contradiction in your Post #95.

You misunderstand again. I am saying it's possible more evidence exists....therefore it's best to wait.

 

[Jiro]

You misunderstand again. I am saying it's possible more evidence exists....therefore it's best to wait.

See Post #91, #93, and #96.

 

[Steinhauer]

See Post #96.

Looks like you are trying very hard to prove Zimmerman's innocence.

You seem to misunderstand the entire legal system of the U.S.

Zimmerman IS innocent.

 

[kokonut]

No one is attacking your post or trolling and no one expects nor wants you to change your opinion either.

We are merely expressing our opinions which of course we are entitled to. A summary of our opinion is that we prefer not to rush to judgement. Always best to wait for all the facts. However is you prefer to jump to conclusions that is your right. I assure you we all want justice in this case, but it would be an injustice to claim Zimmerman is guilty before he is proved guilty.....In my opinion anyway. Our entire criminal justice system is founded in the belief that one is innocent until proved guilty afterall.

Right. Innocent until proven guilty. Sad there are people who do not believe in this important concept.

 

[Jiro]

You seem to misunderstand the entire legal system of the U.S.

Zimmerman IS innocent.

based on what?

and plus - Jeb Bush disagreed.

In Arlington, Jeb Bush says

ARLINGTON — Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush said Friday that the “stand your ground” self-defense law he signed while in office should not apply to the case of a teenager who was killed by a neighborhood watch volunteer in his home state.

“This law does not apply to this particular circumstance,” Bush said after an education panel discussion at the University of Texas at Arlington. “Stand your ground means stand your ground. It doesn’t mean chase after somebody who’s turned their back.”

Zimmerman said that Martin attacked him as he tried to return to his truck. But supporters of the teen’s family say that would have been wildly out of character and that the case is typical of black youths being harassed and endangered for simply being in an area.

The case has sparked protests and demands for a new investigation. The town’s police chief and a local prosecutor have stepped aside in hopes of defusing tension.

Bush said Friday that he wondered why the investigation has taken so long to reach a conclusion. He said it took several weeks of outrage and media attention for local officials to step up their efforts.

“It doesn’t make sense to me,” he said. Bush added that he didn’t want a rush to judgment, but that officials should be mindful that “there are a lot of people who are very concerned about this.”

 

[Steinhauer]

based on what?

and plus - Jeb Bush disagreed.

In Arlington, Jeb Bush says

Bush did not disagree:

Zimmerman said that Martin attacked him as he tried to return to his truck. But supporters of the teen’s family say that would have been wildly out of character and that the case is typical of black youths being harassed and endangered for simply being in an area.

The case has sparked protests and demands for a new investigation. The town’s police chief and a local prosecutor have stepped aside in hopes of defusing tension.

Bush said Friday that he wondered why the investigation has taken so long to reach a conclusion. He said it took several weeks of outrage and media attention for local officials to step up their efforts.

“It doesn’t make sense to me,” he said. Bush added that he didn’t want a rush to judgment, but that officials should be mindful that “there are a lot of people who are very concerned about this.”

He just wants a thorough investigation pretty much like everyone else.


and ... according to the eyewitness that came forward, the stand your ground law does apply in a situation where you are on the ground and being attacked:

ARLINGTON — Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush said Friday that the “stand your ground” self-defense law he signed while in office should not apply to the case of a teenager who was killed by a neighborhood watch volunteer in his home state.

“This law does not apply to this particular circumstance,” Bush said after an education panel discussion at the University of Texas at Arlington. “Stand your ground means stand your ground. It doesn’t mean chase after somebody who’s turned their back.”

and does not apply to chasing after someone who has turned their back.

 

[kokonut]

You seem to misunderstand the entire legal system of the U.S.

Zimmerman IS innocent.

Absolutely correct, hence, "innocent until proven guilty."

 

[TXgolfer]

based on what?

and plus - Jeb Bush disagreed.

In Arlington, Jeb Bush says

According to our criminal justice system. Innocent until proved guilty in a court of law.

 

[Jiro]

Right. Innocent until proven guilty. Sad there are people who do not believe in this important concept.

Zimmerman was already proven guilty when he could not prove Trayvon had committed a crime. and plus Zimmerman's action violated Florida's legal statutes regarding Justifiable Use of Force as stated in Title XLVI - Chapter 776 - Section 776.013

Additionally - "A License to Carry a Concealed Weapon is not a License to use it."

Lawful Self-Defense - Weapons - Division of Licensing, FDACS

Q. What if I see a crime being committed?

A. A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman. But, as stated earlier, deadly force is justified if you are trying to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. The use of deadly force must be absolutely necessary to prevent the crime. Also, if the criminal runs away, you cannot use deadly force to stop him, because you would no longer be "preventing" a crime. If use of deadly force is not necessary, or you use deadly force after the crime has stopped, you could be convicted of manslaughter.

Q. When can I use my handgun to protect myself?

A. Florida law justifies use of deadly force when you are:

Trying to protect yourself or another person from death or serious bodily harm;
Trying to prevent a forcible felony, such as rape, robbery, burglary or kidnapping.
Using or displaying a handgun in any other circumstances could result in your conviction for crimes such as improper exhibition of a firearm, manslaughter, or worse.

Example of the kind of attack that will not justify defending yourself with deadly force: Two neighbors got into a fight, and one of them tried to hit the other by swinging a garden hose. The neighbor who was being attacked with the hose shot the other in the chest. The court upheld his conviction for aggravated battery with a firearm, because an attack with a garden hose is not the kind of violent assault that justifies responding with deadly force.

Q. What if someone uses threatening language to me so that I am afraid for my life or safety?

A. Verbal threats are not enough to justify the use of deadly force. There must be an overt act by the person which indicates that he immediately intends to carry out the threat. The person threatened must reasonably believe that he will be killed or suffer serious bodily harm if he does not immediately take the life of his adversary.

I have already discussed about this at great length with my friend who is a law student and she is in agreement with my argument. oh and she owns a gun too.

 

[TXgolfer]

See Post #91, #93, and #96.

Exactly my point. *shrug*

 

[Jiro]

Bush did not disagree:

He just wants a thorough investigation pretty much like everyone else.

and ... according to the eyewitness that came forward, the stand your ground law does apply in a situation where you are on the ground and being attacked:


and does not apply to chasing after someone who has turned their back.

do you believe Trayvon had a legal rights to defend himself from Zimmerman who had a gun on his hand?

 

[Steinhauer]

do you believe Trayvon had a legal rights to defend himself from Zimmerman who had a gun on his hand?

How do you know Zimmerman had a gun in his hand? What if it was holstered when Trayvor attacked him?

You are making too many assumptions.

 

[Jiro]

How do you know Zimmerman had a gun in his hand?

because he shot him!

What if it was holstered when Trayvor attacked him?

see Post #110. Zimmerman had no legal justification in using deadly force. Even Jeb Bush agreed with me.

You are making too many assumptions.

and you are making too many assumptions that are slated toward to making Trayvon look like he's a criminal. See Post #114. That is how you view Trayvon as.

 

[Steinhauer]

because he shot him!


see Post #110. Zimmerman had no legal justification in using deadly force. Even Jeb Bush agreed with me.


and you are making too many assumptions that are slated toward to making Trayvon look like he's a criminal. See Post #114. That is how you view Trayvon as.

You misunderstood Jeb Bush. He was saying that people should not interpret this law to mean they could shoot someone who was fleeing but to protect themselves if attacked.

 

[Jiro]

You misunderstood Jeb Bush. He was saying that people should not interpret this law to mean they could shoot someone who was fleeing but to protect themselves if attacked.

no.... He specifically stated that "Stand Your Ground" law is not applicable in Zimmerman's case because Zimmerman had no legal justification IN THE FIRST PLACE.

and did the law allow an armed citizen to pursue somebody? was Zimmerman in danger in the first place? did Trayvon commit any crime?

 

[Steinhauer]

no.... He specifically stated that "Stand Your Ground" law is not applicable in Zimmerman's case because Zimmerman had no legal justification IN THE FIRST PLACE.

and did the law allow an armed citizen to pursue somebody? was Zimmerman in danger in the first place? did Trayvon commit any crime?

He also stated that Zimmerman shot Trayvor when Trayvor had turned his back - he said nothing about the physical altercation of Trayvor being on top of Zimmerman and beating him in the face.

That is kind of an important distinction - no?

And what was the deal about the media playing everybody racially? They had us all believe Zimmerman was white - so now, he is a white hispanic? Is Ricky Martin ever called a white hispanic? What about Lopez?

I think we all get it ... if he had saved the boy's life, he would have just been "hispanic".

 

[Jiro]

He also stated that Zimmerman shot Trayvor when Trayvor had turned his back - he said nothing about the physical altercation of Trayvor being on top of Zimmerman and beating him in the face.

You are conveniently ignoring the very beginning. You do realize that in the court of law, every incident must have a legal justification in the first place?

So I ask you again - what crime did Zimmerman witness? what crime did Trayvon commit? was Zimmerman's life in dire danger in the first place?

And what was the deal about the media playing everybody racially? They had us all believe Zimmerman was white - so now, he is a white hispanic? Is Ricky Martin ever called a white hispanic? What about Lopez?

I already stated this many times that the public and media need to STFU and stop pulling race card on this one.

I think we all get it ... if he had saved the boy's life, he would have just been "hispanic".

what? you pulled a race card in this one. I never did.

 

[Steinhauer]

You are conveniently ignoring the very beginning. You do realize that in the court of law, every incident must have a legal justification in the first place?

So I ask you again - what crime did Zimmerman witness? what crime did Trayvon commit? was Zimmerman's life in dire danger in the first place?



I already stated this many times that the public and media need to STFU and stop pulling race card on this one.


what?

You are conveniently being obtuse.

I do not know what crime Zimmerman witnessed, neither do you. You are assuming there wasn't one. I am making no assumptions.

Maybe ... just maybe, the crime that Zimmerman witnessed Trayvor committing was when Trayvor was beating his face - I am fairly certain that is illegal.

 

[Jiro]

You are conveniently being obtuse.

I do not know what crime Zimmerman witnessed, neither do you. You are assuming there wasn't one. I am making no assumptions.

You do realize that in order to effectuate a citizen's arrest or use Stand-Your-Ground defense, you need to state a reason in police report. This incident occurred on February 26th. That's one full month ago.

Maybe ... just maybe, the crime that Zimmerman witnessed Trayvor committing was when Trayvor was beating his face - I am fairly certain that is illegal.

Zimmerman was the one who was pursing him. Do you believe Trayvon does not have legal rights to protect himself from Zimmerman because he was on phone with his gf telling her that he's scared and that there was a suspicious man following him?

Did you know about this?

ABC News also learns that Zimmerman violated major principles of the Neighborhood Watch manual, which states, “it should be emphasized to members that they do not possess police powers, and they shall not carry weapons or pursue vehicles.”

Do you believe that I have a legal right to "Stand My Ground" from a mysterious man chasing after me because he thought I did something suspicious and he happened to be Neighborhood Watchdog?