Do I Understand?

pek1 said:
This is how it should read, not what it said earlier and my good posting. Sorry.
Click to expand...

Okay. No more arguing. And next time, if you want to know something about me, just ask. I'll tell you what you want to know.
And, apology accepted again.
 
jillio said:
I agree, there are those educators out there who are really trying to make a difference. And the methods have been compared and contrasted in numerous studies. And what the preponderance of the evidence shows is that deafa children exposed to both sign and speech in an academic environment consistently perform at a higher level than those exposed to oral only............
Click to expand...
True, and of the combination "sign and speech" the speech in combination with cued speech got the best results.
Pitty it is used so little.... why is that?
It's totally unknown in Norway. Strong campaining by Deaf and government to show signlanguage as the alternative?
 
Sweetmind said:
......................
We do not need the carts for each classrooms for each Deaf children in each Public/MainStream school. That is outrageous to spend all the money of our taxpayers. American Sign Language doesn't cost you or damage anything that harms Deaf children's Mind, Body, and Soul - which belongs to them not you. I strongly feel that no one can cross a person's boundaries is the answer.

I feel that all teacher or parents should learn ASL while they are dealing with or working with them. Therefore there it must having to be a real communication between both - not the third parties. That is not how we deal with deaf children. That is not who she or he is from a start.
..........................

Many thanks! ;)
Sweetmind
Click to expand...
Well written post Sweetmind. Very good.

Regarding the passage above, "all teacher or parents should learn ASL while they are dealing with or working with them" ...
This would also mean that they need to know tactile sign for the deaf-blind boy that has just as much right for language.......And actually, the same would be for the little Chinese boy, so the teacher should know Chinese as well. And what about the cute girl from Russia? She will be lost as well..

What's wrong with using the help that's available..

When someone can express oneself in ones own language (e.g. ASL) better than in another language (e.g. writing English) I think it's wonderful when help is accepted, and the person helping is typing what the deaf peson means. That does not make the message any better.
When a deaf person is writing himself, the message is still there. Translation by a scribe does not make the message more true (or false), it put's it in a nice package.
 
pek1 said:
.......
Third, I think you owe me an apology, as well as to jackie, for keeping that information. .........
Click to expand...

Yeh right..... They should apologise..... get real!

There was no information kept from you. You just never read it...
 
jillio said:
............ The closest I guess I have come to that would be attending Silent Dinners and different deaf activities. And of course, having my house set up for my son with lights for the dorrbell, and the smoke detectors, and CC on T.V., etc. .........
Click to expand...

Isn't that managing your and your sons life.....???
 
This is perhaps a little difficult for me to say, as it is saying something against my Mom.

Mom did what she thought was best for my interests. She never asked me what I wanted or needed. Then again, she never asked Dad if he was watching the show when she claimed ownership of the TV remote either.....

Therewithin lies the rub. Mom thought what was good for me. I was too young at the time to have an opinion or to know what I needed.

Certainly, I was uninformed. Who is between the ages of 3 and 18? We have faith in our folks as kids.

I never knew another deaf person until some years after I left home. I got angry because I thought I was the ONLY deaf kid in the world and found out there were others! (a few more than the 4400 LOL).

My sister tells me recently that Mom felt guilty about my hearing problem and what went with it (but she didn't tell me!)

I am hoh, my Mom is hearing. I had to fit into the hearing world, with few minor concessions. Mom always said that I have to fit into the real world anyway,

So in many ways Pek1 (Pete) and Jillio are both right and wrong at the same time! This, by the way, is no criticism of either person...

Jillio, you can ask your son what he wants/needs, but he can't really tell you, because he doesn't REALLY know. You can mostly offer answers from your hearing world perspective. I can offer some from my world and others will offer answers from the totally deaf world and so on. None are all wrong and none are all right.

Pete, I can feel where you are coming from and I can see you mean no offense to Jillio.

Jillio, I have never met a touchier lot than us deafies. Please understand that we are not the world's best communicators and may say some inappropriate things, but insult is not necessarily intended, even though there are some dickheads amongst us who look for nothing but trouble. We aren't so different to the ordinary world in some ways after all, are we?

It is difficult to really appreciate the different worlds that exist with any disability. Jillio seems to have an inordinate empathy with us and is mature enough to realise that she doesn't know the experience. There's a smart lady for you...We should be grateful for those who TRY to understand, instead of cracking off at them..That only shows us as stupid and/or bigoted.

Pete, I support your discussion, however I also suppoort Jillio.

Hope I made some sense here
 
Cloggy said:
True, and of the combination "sign and speech" the speech in combination with cued speech got the best results.
Pitty it is used so little.... why is that?
It's totally unknown in Norway. Strong campaining by Deaf and government to show signlanguage as the alternative?
Click to expand...

You aren't going to like my answer. It is because the hearing professionalized teachers and administrators are incharge of deaf education policy, and they approach it from the same ethnocentric perspective that all oralists do. And, speech and sign is used widely inthe United States, in many self contained programs and deaf schools. Theproblem is, they are using MCEs instead of ASL, and these kids are not being exposed to ASL as an early intervention technique.
 
Cloggy said:
Isn't that managing your and your sons life.....???
Click to expand...

No, cloggy, it's participating in mine and my son's social life. Sending him to attend deaf functions on his own, and insisting that he do so despite his wishes, would be managing my son's social life.
 
Cloggy said:
Well written post Sweetmind. Very good.

Regarding the passage above, "all teacher or parents should learn ASL while they are dealing with or working with them" ...
This would also mean that they need to know tactile sign for the deaf-blind boy that has just as much right for language.......And actually, the same would be for the little Chinese boy, so the teacher should know Chinese as well. And what about the cute girl from Russia? She will be lost as well..

What's wrong with using the help that's available..

When someone can express oneself in ones own language (e.g. ASL) better than in another language (e.g. writing English) I think it's wonderful when help is accepted, and the person helping is typing what the deaf peson means. That does not make the message any better.
When a deaf person is writing himself, the message is still there. Translation by a scribe does not make the message more true (or false), it put's it in a nice package.
Click to expand...

First of all, tactile sign is not unknown ion the edaf blind educational environment.

Secondly, you cannot compare a child whose native tongue is oral to a child whose native language is visual. The comparison is fallicious. The child whose Native tongue is Chinese, for expample, still has auditory function. That child processes linguistic information int he same way that any other hearing child processes it.

We are not discussing hearing children whose native tongue is not English. We are discussing deaf education. If you want to compare by nationality, you must comapre deaf Chinese children to deaf American, or Brit, or Norwegian.

And you are once again attempting to divert a topic. The Deaf Ed forum has numerous posts, if deaf education is what you wish to discuss.
 
Nomad said:
This is perhaps a little difficult for me to say, as it is saying something against my Mom.

Mom did what she thought was best for my interests. She never asked me what I wanted or needed. Then again, she never asked Dad if he was watching the show when she claimed ownership of the TV remote either.....

Therewithin lies the rub. Mom thought what was good for me. I was too young at the time to have an opinion or to know what I needed.

Certainly, I was uninformed. Who is between the ages of 3 and 18? We have faith in our folks as kids.

I never knew another deaf person until some years after I left home. I got angry because I thought I was the ONLY deaf kid in the world and found out there were others! (a few more than the 4400 LOL).

My sister tells me recently that Mom felt guilty about my hearing problem and what went with it (but she didn't tell me!)

I am hoh, my Mom is hearing. I had to fit into the hearing world, with few minor concessions. Mom always said that I have to fit into the real world anyway,

So in many ways Pek1 (Pete) and Jillio are both right and wrong at the same time! This, by the way, is no criticism of either person...

Jillio, you can ask your son what he wants/needs, but he can't really tell you, because he doesn't REALLY know. You can mostly offer answers from your hearing world perspective. I can offer some from my world and others will offer answers from the totally deaf world and so on. None are all wrong and none are all right.

Pete, I can feel where you are coming from and I can see you mean no offense to Jillio.

Jillio, I have never met a touchier lot than us deafies. Please understand that we are not the world's best communicators and may say some inappropriate things, but insult is not necessarily intended, even though there are some dickheads amongst us who look for nothing but trouble. We aren't so different to the ordinary world in some ways after all, are we?

It is difficult to really appreciate the different worlds that exist with any disability. Jillio seems to have an inordinate empathy with us and is mature enough to realise that she doesn't know the experience. There's a smart lady for you...We should be grateful for those who TRY to understand, instead of cracking off at them..That only shows us as stupid and/or bigoted.

Pete, I support your discussion, however I also suppoort Jillio.

Hope I made some sense here
Click to expand...

Nomad,

Thank you for sharing your story with me. And you are right that I can only ask my son what he needs, and he, at a certain age can't tell me. That is why, when he was diagnosed, I went into a deaf club, and began asking deaf adults to teach me what I needed to know about being a deaf child. I asked them to tell me what it was like to grow up deaf, and what they would change about their childhood, or their education, and what they would tell me, as a hearing parent, to do for my deaf son. I got my guidance from those who had lived through it, and I used that valuable information to make decisions for my son until he was old enough to make decisions for himself. He was exposed to the Deaf community and other Deaf adults and children from the time he was 1 year old, and he attended a deaf school. He is now a college sophomore at a hearing college. He identifies himself as Deaf, although he does have oral skills and will use them when he needs to. He simply prefers ASL as his communication mode, and I have always supported him in that choice.

You see, I didn't isolsate either my son or myself from his deafness, but embraced it and the Deaf community. As a result, they embraced me back. I have attempted for 21 years to rely ont hose who have walked the same path to advise me and keep me informed of what it is to be deaf. So, no, I can't know what it is to be deaf because I am hearing. But I can understand what it is to be deaf from the many deaf individuals that I have come in contact with over the last 21 years.
 
Umm I do not understand deaf people except myself. I only understand myself not others because they live a different life than mine. My mother understand me very well and know me very well. She did a wonderful job helping so many deaf people does she understand them, u bet better than me understand them. As for u Jill, I do believe u understand them more than me. If others say u do not understand deaf people then they just lied to themselves.
 
Tousi said:
Not to keep this dragging on and on but I am surprised (well, not really) at Pek. Infused throughout numerous relevant topics is a porttrait of Jillio as an involved Mother of a deaf son who is now a grown adult and a 20 plus years professional in the field which doesn't stop in her office; she is also out and about in the deaf community because she likes doing this and is continually seeking that which she can expand on....anyone on this board with a passing interest would have seen/known this. Pek has this irritating tendency to come in with the blunderbuss effect, leaving all of us to waste inordinate amounts of time and energy to pick up the pieces scattered all over creation before we forge ahead....
Click to expand...

Thanks, Tousi. I thought I had disclosed this info any number of times.:ty:
 
jazzy said:
Umm I do not understand deaf people except myself. I only understand myself not others because they live a different life than mine. My mother understand me very well and know me very well. She did a wonderful job helping so many deaf people does she understand them, u bet better than me understand them. As for u Jill, I do believe u understand them more than me. If others say u do not understand deaf people then they just lied to themselves.
Click to expand...

:ty: jazzy!
 
Many of my hearing friends and co-workers did or are doing the same thing as Jillo. Those are the people that really make a difference for many of us deaf people cuz too long, hearing people in general have historically don't take deaf people seriously when we express our needs and what works for us not what works for hearing people. That's why people like Jillo are a godsend to many of us so we need more hearing people to take those steps to understand our needs especially when it comes to having full access to language. May be not all deaf or hh people will agree on the same thing but the majority of people have expressed the need for a visual language in addition to spoken language for a healthy balance of both.

BTW, Cloggy...comparing deaf children to Japenese children is moot cuz we are talking about children being raised with no language development. At least Chinese children or whatever have a language in their native language and that is the difference in their ability to acquire English without a problem. That seems to be the point many people keep missing here..

Sorry to go off-topic
 
shel90 said:
Many of my hearing friends and co-workers did or are doing the same thing as Jillo. Those are the people that really make a difference for many of us deaf people cuz too long, hearing people in general have historically don't take deaf people seriously when we express our needs and what works for us not what works for hearing people. That's why people like Jillo are a godsend to many of us so we need more hearing people to take those steps to understand our needs especially when it comes to having full access to language. May be not all deaf or hh people will agree on the same thing but the majority of people have expressed the need for a visual language in addition to spoken language for a healthy balance of both.

BTW, Cloggy...comparing deaf children to Japenese children is moot cuz we are talking about children being raised with no language development. At least Chinese children or whatever have a language in their native language and that is the difference in their ability to acquire English without a problem. That seems to be the point many people keep missing here..

Sorry to go off-topic
Click to expand...

:ty: shel. Good to see you back!:hug:
 
Mod Note:


A couple posts were removed--pls., let's keep the belittling and fingerpointing elsewhere...here's a hint: Take it to PMland and work out any indifferences, etc.,.... ;)






~RR
 
Nomad said:
This is perhaps a little difficult for me to say, as it is saying something against my Mom.

Mom did what she thought was best for my interests. She never asked me what I wanted or needed. Then again, she never asked Dad if he was watching the show when she claimed ownership of the TV remote either.....

Therewithin lies the rub. Mom thought what was good for me. I was too young at the time to have an opinion or to know what I needed.

Certainly, I was uninformed. Who is between the ages of 3 and 18? We have faith in our folks as kids.

I never knew another deaf person until some years after I left home. I got angry because I thought I was the ONLY deaf kid in the world and found out there were others! (a few more than the 4400 LOL).

My sister tells me recently that Mom felt guilty about my hearing problem and what went with it (but she didn't tell me!)

I am hoh, my Mom is hearing. I had to fit into the hearing world, with few minor concessions. Mom always said that I have to fit into the real world anyway,

So in many ways Pek1 (Pete) and Jillio are both right and wrong at the same time! This, by the way, is no criticism of either person...

Jillio, you can ask your son what he wants/needs, but he can't really tell you, because he doesn't REALLY know. You can mostly offer answers from your hearing world perspective. I can offer some from my world and others will offer answers from the totally deaf world and so on. None are all wrong and none are all right.

Pete, I can feel where you are coming from and I can see you mean no offense to Jillio.

Jillio, I have never met a touchier lot than us deafies. Please understand that we are not the world's best communicators and may say some inappropriate things, but insult is not necessarily intended, even though there are some dickheads amongst us who look for nothing but trouble. We aren't so different to the ordinary world in some ways after all, are we?

It is difficult to really appreciate the different worlds that exist with any disability. Jillio seems to have an inordinate empathy with us and is mature enough to realise that she doesn't know the experience. There's a smart lady for you...We should be grateful for those who TRY to understand, instead of cracking off at them..That only shows us as stupid and/or bigoted.

Pete, I support your discussion, however I also suppoort Jillio.

Hope I made some sense here
Click to expand...

Nomad,

I wasn't offended by what you said. In fact, you are right to say that we deafs are very touchy, but we don't mean to be.

Note to jillio: Does everything have to be a knock out, drag out fight to get help for deaf people? I feel like I fight all the time and hate it.
 
pek1 said:
deafskeptic,

I understand. I interviewed a man for a newspaper that, quite a number of years prior, had been in a car accident and less than a week later, woke up one morning and found his hearing totally gone. Later on, he married and had kids. Shortly before he received a CI, his kids didn't even believe their dad was deaf. So, after seeing and interviewing him, as well as reading some stories here, particularly jackie's and yours, I support CI's whole heartedly. Your story, by the way, nearly ripped the insides out of me and when I read your story, it had to sink in overnight before I made a comment. You, my friend, are one brave and strong person, and I commend you highly.
Click to expand...

Thank you but I'm afraid this is off topic. :)
 
Nomad said:
This is perhaps a little difficult for me to say, as it is saying something against my Mom.

Mom did what she thought was best for my interests. She never asked me what I wanted or needed. Then again, she never asked Dad if he was watching the show when she claimed ownership of the TV remote either.....

Therewithin lies the rub. Mom thought what was good for me. I was too young at the time to have an opinion or to know what I needed.

Certainly, I was uninformed. Who is between the ages of 3 and 18? We have faith in our folks as kids.

I never knew another deaf person until some years after I left home. I got angry because I thought I was the ONLY deaf kid in the world and found out there were others! (a few more than the 4400 LOL).

My sister tells me recently that Mom felt guilty about my hearing problem and what went with it (but she didn't tell me!)

I am hoh, my Mom is hearing. I had to fit into the hearing world, with few minor concessions. Mom always said that I have to fit into the real world anyway,

So in many ways Pek1 (Pete) and Jillio are both right and wrong at the same time! This, by the way, is no criticism of either person...

Jillio, you can ask your son what he wants/needs, but he can't really tell you, because he doesn't REALLY know. You can mostly offer answers from your hearing world perspective. I can offer some from my world and others will offer answers from the totally deaf world and so on. None are all wrong and none are all right.

Pete, I can feel where you are coming from and I can see you mean no offense to Jillio.

Jillio, I have never met a touchier lot than us deafies. Please understand that we are not the world's best communicators and may say some inappropriate things, but insult is not necessarily intended, even though there are some dickheads amongst us who look for nothing but trouble. We aren't so different to the ordinary world in some ways after all, are we?

It is difficult to really appreciate the different worlds that exist with any disability. Jillio seems to have an inordinate empathy with us and is mature enough to realise that she doesn't know the experience. There's a smart lady for you...We should be grateful for those who TRY to understand, instead of cracking off at them..That only shows us as stupid and/or bigoted.

Pete, I support your discussion, however I also suppoort Jillio.

Hope I made some sense here
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing. An excellent view in your and our world.
 
Back
Top