Do I Understand?

jillio said:
.............
And you are once again attempting to divert a topic. The Deaf Ed forum has numerous posts, if deaf education is what you wish to discuss.
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Sweetmind - you hear that - we're off-topic.
 
jillio said:
No, cloggy, it's participating in mine and my son's social life. Sending him to attend deaf functions on his own, and insisting that he do so despite his wishes, would be managing my son's social life.
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Ah.. so making someone do something AGAINST his wishes is managing...

Well, your definition of "managing" is standing by itself. The rest of the world has a more positive view on the word "managing"..
Ask any manager... or are these people telling other people what to do AGAINST their will....???. Thought so!

Just checking;
From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 :

Manage \Man"age\, n. [F. man[`e]ge, It. maneggio, fr. maneggiare
to manage, fr. L. manushand. Perhaps somewhat influenced by
F. m['e]nage housekeeping, OF. mesnage, akin to E. mansion.
See Manual, and cf. Manege.]
The handling or government of anything, but esp. of a horse;
management; administration. See Manege. [Obs.]
[1913 Webster]

Young men, in the conduct and manage of actions,
embrace more than they can hold. --Bacon.
[1913 Webster]

Down, down I come; like glistering Phaethon
Wanting the manage of unruly jades. --Shak.
[1913 Webster]

The unlucky manage of this fatal brawl. --Shak.
[1913 Webster]

Note: This word, in its limited sense of management of a
horse, has been displaced by manege; in its more
general meaning, by management.
[1913 Webster]


From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 :

Manage \Man"age\, v. i.
To direct affairs; to carry on business or affairs; to
administer.
[1913 Webster]

Leave them to manage for thee. --Dryden.
[1913 Webster]


From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 :

Manage \Man"age\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Managed; p. pr. & vb. n.
Managing.] [From Manage, n.]
1. To have under control and direction; to conduct; to guide;
to administer; to treat; to handle.
[1913 Webster]

Long tubes are cumbersome, and scarce to be easily
managed. --Sir I.
Newton.
[1913 Webster]

What wars Imanage, and what wreaths I gain. --Prior.
[1913 Webster]

2. Hence, Esp.: to guide by careful or delicate treatment; to
wield with address; to make subservient by artful conduct;
to bring around cunningly to one's plans.
[1913 Webster]

It was so much his interest to manage his Protestant
subjects. --Addison.
[1913 Webster]

It was not her humor to manage those over whom she
had gained an ascendant. --Bp. Hurd.
[1913 Webster]

3. To train in the manege, as a horse; to exercise in
graceful or artful action.
[1913 Webster]

4. To treat with care; to husband. --Dryden.
[1913 Webster]

5. To bring about; to contrive. --Shak.
[1913 Webster]

Syn: To direct; govern; control; wield; order; contrive;
concert; conduct; transact.
[1913 Webster]


From WordNet (r) 2.0 :

manage
v 1: be successful; achieve a goal; "She succeeded in persuading
us all"; "I managed to carry the box upstairs"; "She
pulled it off, even though we never thought her capable
of it"; "The pianist negociated the difficult runs"
[syn: pull off, negociate, bring off, carry off]
[ant: fail]
2: be in charge of, act on, or dispose of; "I can deal with
this crew of workers"; "This blender can't handle nuts";
"She managed her parents' affairs after they got too old"
[syn: deal, care, handle]
3: come to terms or deal successfully with; "We got by on just
a gallon of gas"; "They made do on half a loaf of bread
every day" [syn: cope, get by, make out, make do,
contend, grapple, deal]
4: watch and direct; "Who is overseeing this project?" [syn: oversee,
supervise, superintend]
5: achieve something by means of trickery or devious methods
[syn: wangle, finagle]
6: carry on or manage; "We could do with a little more help
around here" [syn: do]
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pek1 said:
Nomad,

I wasn't offended by what you said. In fact, you are right to say that we deafs are very touchy, but we don't mean to be.

Note to jillio: Does everything have to be a knock out, drag out fight to get help for deaf people? I feel like I fight all the time and hate it.
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Unfortunately, Pek, assertiveness is necessary. And yes, there are many times that things have to go a bit beyond that, even.
 
Cloggy said:
Sweetmind - you hear that - we're off-topic.
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Sweetmind's post was not off topic. I would appreciate it if you would not allow your personal dislike of another poster to influence your responses to the topic.
 
Cloggy said:
Ah.. so making someone do something AGAINST his wishes is managing...

Well, your definition of "managing" is standing by itself. The rest of the world has a more positive view on the word "managing"..
Ask any manager... or are these people telling other people what to do AGAINST their will....???. Thought so!

Just checking;
Click to expand...

Now, this truly is off topic. :topic:
 
jillio said:
First of all, tactile sign is not unknown ion the edaf blind educational environment.

Secondly, you cannot compare a child whose native tongue is oral to a child whose native language is visual. The comparison is fallicious. The child whose Native tongue is Chinese, for expample, still has auditory function. That child processes linguistic information int he same way that any other hearing child processes it.

We are not discussing hearing children whose native tongue is not English. We are discussing deaf education. If you want to compare by nationality, you must comapre deaf Chinese children to deaf American, or Brit, or Norwegian.

And you are once again attempting to divert a topic. The Deaf Ed forum has numerous posts, if deaf education is what you wish to discuss.
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:gpost::gpost:
Thank you Jillo for saying it all. I dont need to say anything anymore.

Thanks,
Sweetmind
 
jillio said:
Unfortunately, Pek, assertiveness is necessary. And yes, there are many times that things have to go a bit beyond that, even.
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Okay. I understand, but I was referring to you and jackie . . .
 
jillio said:
You see, I didn't isolate either my son or myself from his deafness, but embraced it and the Deaf community. As a result, they embraced me back. I have attempted for 21 years to rely on those who have walked the same path to advise me and keep me informed of what it is to be deaf. So, no, I can't know what it is to be deaf because I am hearing. But I can understand what it is to be deaf from the many deaf individuals that I have come in contact with over the last 21 years.
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If cloning humans is legal, I would crank out Jillios 24/7. We, deaf people need more people like Jillio.
I am sorry, Cloggy, from my life experiences, I find hearing people selfish for not learning sign language. We all should reciprocate.
 
Buffalo said:
If cloning humans is legal, I would crank out Jillios 24/7. We, deaf people need more people like Jillio.
I am sorry, Cloggy, from my life experiences, I find hearing people selfish for not learning sign language. We all should reciprocate.
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No, communication is what is needed, and if that is by sign-language - that's great.
Choosing a method that will allow the child to communicate with the family, friends etc. and putting effort in that is not something I would call selfish.
You just don't like the idea of a deaf child not needing sign, but being able to communicate orally.
But you not liking something does not make it a selfish act by the parents..

And why would I learn signlanguage now, when my daughter has no need for it?
Why would I put my daughter through learning sign, when she's allready learning Dutch and Norwegian.

If she wants to learn it, we'll be happy to oblidge, but for now - there's no need.
 
Wow! i have been reading all this and a part of my heart breaks :(
I have been deaf since 5-6 months old, but yet was never in the "deaf community", have spent all my life with hearing people. I never realized that some deaf people get pushed "out" by other deaf people because simply one can talk and the other can't or for other reasons. I know what its like to be me as a deaf person, but I really do not know what its like for others since i never had the opportunity to be around other deaf people. So I seek to understand as well.
I admire people that are deaf and hearing. I admire people trying to understand and help others whether you are deaf or not. I do not yet know anyone on this forum but hoping to meet a few ppl :) i doubt i can "categorize" deaf people/hearing people lol..i only say this because whether u are deaf or hearing, or blind or anything else..u are the same to me...a human being, a person that has found a way to function in this hard and cruel world we live in. :D

I hope this post doesnt catch any "dirt" lol...I guess i'm just saying that find some peoples reactions to others confusing because I never grew up with any of this except the fact that i can't hear too well.

eh sometimes I have a hard time putting into words exactly what i want to say or how i feel. lol
 
Buffalo said:
If cloning humans is legal, I would crank out Jillios 24/7. We, deaf people need more people like Jillio.
I am sorry, Cloggy, from my life experiences, I find hearing people selfish for not learning sign language. We all should reciprocate.
Click to expand...

Crank out Jillos 24/7!! I like that one and I agree with u..we need more hearing people like Jillo who really takes the time to listen to deaf people.

Growing up, it was decided that sign wasn't needed for me cuz I could communicate with everyone orally just fine according to my family and the oral specialists. As a child, I didn't understand my own needs so I didn't know any different. Well, looking back and knowing what I know now, having sign language in my life would have made the difference. What my family and the oralist forgot to consider was this..... MY communication needs. They were able to understand me pretty well and as long as their needs got met by me, all was well. They forgot about my needs for understanding them which I couldn't as much as they could understand me so as a result, I was the one who lost out a lot not them. Here is one perfect example.. During a special family event when everyone in my family were taking turns sharing something memorable they had with my grandfather at our family renunion 7 years ago and everyone was laughing and crying. My brother and I sat there just trying so hard to keep up with what everyone was saying but with no avail. Not only that, we didn't even get a turn to share our memories with our grandfather to the family cuz everyone was too busy chatting and joking with each other forgetting about us . Who lost out on the family bonding? I think it is easy to guess. Yep, I think that is kinda selfish so I agree with u there.

People need to stop thinking for themselves and really look outside of the box and that is what Jillo did. :) :ty: Jillo and other hearing people for taking that huge step of thinking outside of the box.
If my mom or even some family members did that, maybe my brother and I would have a good memory of that special family moment instead of it being a bad memory due to us feeling very bitter and resentful towards everyone that night.

:cheers: to Jillo and other hearing people who make the effort.
 
shel90 said:
Crank out Jillos 24/7!! I like that one and I agree with u..we need more hearing people like Jillo who really takes the time to listen to deaf people.

Growing up, it was decided that sign wasn't needed for me cuz I could communicate with everyone orally just fine according to my family and the oral specialists. As a child, I didn't understand my own needs so I didn't know any different. Well, looking back and knowing what I know now, having sign language in my life would have made the difference. What my family and the oralist forgot to consider was this..... MY communication needs. They were able to understand me pretty well and as long as their needs got met by me, all was well. They forgot about my needs for understanding them which I couldn't as much as they could understand me so as a result, I was the one who lost out a lot not them. Here is one perfect example.. During a special family event when everyone in my family were taking turns sharing something memorable they had with my grandfather at our family renunion 7 years ago and everyone was laughing and crying. My brother and I sat there just trying so hard to keep up with what everyone was saying but with no avail. Not only that, we didn't even get a turn to share our memories with our grandfather to the family cuz everyone was too busy chatting and joking with each other forgetting about us . Who lost out on the family bonding? I think it is easy to guess. Yep, I think that is kinda selfish so I agree with u there.

People need to stop thinking for themselves and really look outside of the box and that is what Jillo did. :) :ty: Jillo and other hearing people for taking that huge step of thinking outside of the box.
If my mom or even some family members did that, maybe my brother and I would have a good memory of that special family moment instead of it being a bad memory due to us feeling very bitter and resentful towards everyone that night.

:cheers: to Jillo and other hearing people who make the effort.
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I concur, shel. However, it's not just hearing people. How many times has your local sports team (i.e. football) been in the news? How many times have they made like a baby and said, "If we don't get this new stadium, we're going to cry and pout and then move away!!" Okay, so they don't say those exact words, but you get the picture. I'm so fed up with sports that I won't go to a game or even waste my time reading the sports page in the paper, due to not only what I said, but my upbringing. You see, I'm not that big of a person and had some friends, but not many. Any wonder why I don't have time for sports other than alpine skiing?

On another note, shel, I think that is the saddest story I've read in a long time. So sad that even your mom didn't step up to the plate, after all these years, and undo the damage she caused and allowed. I'm betting that you won't be going to any family get-together any time soon. I don't go to mine, as I have better things to do than to hang around a bunch of drunks that come in with a hangover that they can't hold a conversation other than over rodeo.
 
Buffalo said:
If cloning humans is legal, I would crank out Jillios 24/7. We, deaf people need more people like Jillio.
I am sorry, Cloggy, from my life experiences, I find hearing people selfish for not learning sign language. We all should reciprocate.
Click to expand...

:ty::ty::ty: Buffalo!
 
dberge320 said:
Wow! i have been reading all this and a part of my heart breaks :(
I have been deaf since 5-6 months old, but yet was never in the "deaf community", have spent all my life with hearing people. I never realized that some deaf people get pushed "out" by other deaf people because simply one can talk and the other can't or for other reasons. I know what its like to be me as a deaf person, but I really do not know what its like for others since i never had the opportunity to be around other deaf people. So I seek to understand as well.
I admire people that are deaf and hearing. I admire people trying to understand and help others whether you are deaf or not. I do not yet know anyone on this forum but hoping to meet a few ppl :) i doubt i can "categorize" deaf people/hearing people lol..i only say this because whether u are deaf or hearing, or blind or anything else..u are the same to me...a human being, a person that has found a way to function in this hard and cruel world we live in. :D

I hope this post doesnt catch any "dirt" lol...I guess i'm just saying that find some peoples reactions to others confusing because I never grew up with any of this except the fact that i can't hear too well.

eh sometimes I have a hard time putting into words exactly what i want to say or how i feel. lol
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I went thru the same thing when I first start getting involved in the Deaf community. I ignored those who rejected me and now those who rejected me regretted making judgements about me based on the fact I grew up orally only. Cant give up just because of a few people. They do not represent the whole Deaf community.
 
shel90 said:
Crank out Jillos 24/7!! I like that one and I agree with u..we need more hearing people like Jillo who really takes the time to listen to deaf people.

Growing up, it was decided that sign wasn't needed for me cuz I could communicate with everyone orally just fine according to my family and the oral specialists. As a child, I didn't understand my own needs so I didn't know any different. Well, looking back and knowing what I know now, having sign language in my life would have made the difference. What my family and the oralist forgot to consider was this..... MY communication needs. They were able to understand me pretty well and as long as their needs got met by me, all was well. They forgot about my needs for understanding them which I couldn't as much as they could understand me so as a result, I was the one who lost out a lot not them. Here is one perfect example.. During a special family event when everyone in my family were taking turns sharing something memorable they had with my grandfather at our family renunion 7 years ago and everyone was laughing and crying. My brother and I sat there just trying so hard to keep up with what everyone was saying but with no avail. Not only that, we didn't even get a turn to share our memories with our grandfather to the family cuz everyone was too busy chatting and joking with each other forgetting about us . Who lost out on the family bonding? I think it is easy to guess. Yep, I think that is kinda selfish so I agree with u there.

People need to stop thinking for themselves and really look outside of the box and that is what Jillo did. :) :ty: Jillo and other hearing people for taking that huge step of thinking outside of the box.
If my mom or even some family members did that, maybe my brother and I would have a good memory of that special family moment instead of it being a bad memory due to us feeling very bitter and resentful towards everyone that night.

:cheers: to Jillo and other hearing people who make the effort.
Click to expand...

:ty::ty: shel.........and a great big :ty:to the :deaf: that taught me what I need to know!
 
pek1 said:
I concur, shel. However, it's not just hearing people. How many times has your local sports team (i.e. football) been in the news? How many times have they made like a baby and said, "If we don't get this new stadium, we're going to cry and pout and then move away!!" Okay, so they don't say those exact words, but you get the picture. I'm so fed up with sports that I won't go to a game or even waste my time reading the sports page in the paper, due to not only what I said, but my upbringing. You see, I'm not that big of a person and had some friends, but not many. Any wonder why I don't have time for sports other than alpine skiing?

On another note, shel, I think that is the saddest story I've read in a long time. So sad that even your mom didn't step up to the plate, after all these years, and undo the damage she caused and allowed. I'm betting that you won't be going to any family get-together any time soon. I don't go to mine, as I have better things to do than to hang around a bunch of drunks that come in with a hangover that they can't hold a conversation other than over rodeo.
Click to expand...

My mom knows and regrets not exposing me to ASL and not learning it herself. She is trying to learn but problem is I live 3,000 miles away from her. My brother is now living with her so maybe her signing skills will improve. :fingersx:
 
shel90 said:
My mom knows and regrets not exposing me to ASL and not learning it herself. She is trying to learn but problem is I live 3,000 miles away from her. My brother is now living with her so maybe her signing skills will improve. :fingersx:
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If she wants to communicate with him, they will have to! :giggle:
 
Cloggy said:
Choosing a method that will allow the child to communicate with the family, friends etc. and putting effort in that is not something I would call selfish.
You just don't like the idea of a deaf child not needing sign, but being able to communicate orally.
But you not liking something does not make it a selfish act by the parents..
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I do consider this method a selfish act, especially when it results in death of the child/baby. When it ends in death, I consider this an act of murder. It is really beyond my understanding why a person would put a child under knife so he/she don't have to learn sign language. Why should the child suffer the after effects of an operation so his/her family don't have to sign? Why should the adult child have to pay for batteries and upkeep for his/her CI so his/her family don't have to sign?
How do you feel if I take a hearing child and make the child undergo an operation to put in some kind of implant so that child can learn sign language fast??? What would you feel if that child died??
I heard on a tv program talking about history of Deaf. There was a man (in 1920's or so) saying that if a deaf child has a voice then the child can be taught to speak. Well, to me, if somebody has two hands, then this person can be taught to sign.

Cloggy said:
And why would I learn signlanguage now, when my daughter has no need for it?
Why would I put my daughter through learning sign, when she's allready learning Dutch and Norwegian.
If she wants to learn it, we'll be happy to oblidge, but for now - there's no need.
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Let me sprout a couple of horns and a spiked tail so I can play the Devil's Advocate. There, I am all set. Zap! There was a nuclear war but your family survived it. Nobody is making batteries anymore. What now? Parts break but there is no replacement as nobody is making them anymore. What now?
Zap! Now there is a level 4 virus going about and it is making everybody deaf. Now what? Better stay away from the streets until everybody get used to driving while deaf.
It is lovely to have a tail. I gotta put those horns and tail away until next time.
 
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