I make it clear from the beginning - it's the dose that makes a difference. Come back with me after you understand that concept well.
Add lithium to drinking water
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I make it clear from the beginning - it's the dose that makes a difference. Come back with me after you understand that concept well.
StSapphire
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How do you plan on maintaining dosages by dumping it into the water supply? (Hint: You can't.)
First, you need to understand this concept:
All substances are poisons; there is none which is not a poison. The right dose differentiates a poison from a remedy. (Von der Besucht, Paracelsus, 1567)
Even water is toxic if you consume too much (didn't we have a case where woman drank too much for radio contest and died as a result of water intoxication?).
Fluoride is an essential nutrient and to call it a poison is just absurd as it is to call vitamin D a poison. Vitamin D is toxic at high doses but it doesn't mean we shouldn't fortify dairy with it. It is simply not enough to cause true toxicity and without vitamin D, we'd not grow. Fluoride is toxic at high doses - no scientist said otherwise.
Selenium is essential but can be toxic at higher than 1 milligram a day.
Potassium is an essential mineral but it can be extremely toxic - heck, we use it to execute people on death row since it stops the heart beating! Are we going to demand that we cut down on potassium in soil?!?!
Come on, those "CHEMICAL! TOXIC!" scare tactics don't work with me.
Just as you do with fluoride. Tell me why you can't.
jillio
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That's where you're wrong.
It's NOT medicating, it's about supplying lithium to help reduce rate of deficiency or to maintain optimal mental health. We did with fluoride. We did with fortification. We did a lot for the public.
Lithium is NOT manufactured, it's extracted from the ground. Sheesh, you are so wrong. Come on, fess up.
Would you drink water that's already naturally rich in lithium? If you won't, then you're not being logical at all.
As for japan not having deficiencies - the difference between Americans and Japanese is that they eat a LOT Of vegetables, we don't. We're much meat and potatoes. If Americans start eating MORE as recommended, then we would NOT need fortification or even flouride but the reality is that many don't get enough of them.
What deficiency? You have shown me nothing that would indicate that the population of the U.S. suffers from a lithium deficiency.
If the problem is that Americans are not eating enough vegetables, then work on changing their diet. Don't add lithium to their drinking water.
What you are suggesting is paternalism at its very worst. You have shown me nothing that indicates that lithium is deficient in American diets, or that there are health related consequences.
StSapphire
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Sounds good. I propose we pour selenium and cyanide in the water supply, too, because some people might not be getting enough! Your highly over-defensive protestations ultimately just make you sound silly, rather than proving your point.
If you said "maybe we should run some more trials and try to isolate and see how this works", I'd agree with you. But you proposed instead "Let's just dump this shit in the water! We'll see what happens, and if anyone disagrees with me, they're an anti-scientific luddite who's scared of everything!"
If you said "maybe we should run some more trials and try to isolate and see how this works", I'd agree with you. But you proposed instead "Let's just dump this shit in the water! We'll see what happens, and if anyone disagrees with me, they're an anti-scientific luddite who's scared of everything!"
But studies have shown poisons to be harmless in small amounts. Hell, even the EPA is raising radioactivity danger levels. :P
jillio
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Can you guarantee that 2 mg a day will not be toxic to those who have various medically compromising conditions, to developing fetuses, or to children?
jillio
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And I have the choice of purchasing or not purchasing that which has additives. That is the whole point. You propose removing choice.
StSapphire
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I know! Just ask the homeopaths, they know all about small amounts of things diluted in water, lol.
StSapphire
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No! Choice is evil! The almighty netrox knows what is best for you, and for everyone else who he's never met but knows isn't getting enough [insert random element here] in their diet.
Wait a minute... adding lithium in trace amount which could SAVE more lives and promote well being of the population is paternalism? Ok.
StSapphire
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Or it could NOT save lives. That's the whole point. You don't have a fucking clue what it'll do.
jillio
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You know, even someone who is diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder and is prescribed lithium to prevent mania has the choice of whether or not to take their meds. We cannot hogtie them and force them to take their meds, despite the fact that need has been definately demonstrated. But now it is being proposed that we simply put lithium in the water supply. I don't know about you, but I see something very wrong in this.
jillio
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How is it going to save lives? You haven't shown me anyone that has died from a lithium deficiency yet. I thought you were all about preventing mental illness with this proposition. But, then, you haven't shown me that adding lithium to the water will prevent mental illness, either. In fact, if you believe even half of what you are saying, you have demonstrated that it will not have an effect at all on mental illness.
And yes, it is paternalism.
Please, I am skeptical of faith healing, homeopathy, and all that. I am a skeptic. Studies have done on those and failed to see results.
Lithium in water - they found results. So that suggests something is going on. If there are studies saying "nope, no effects whatsoever" then I'll accept that but I suspect lithium is an essential mineral underutilized by most people. If they say, "There's harm from it" then we should just stop it. That's the proper protocol.
What if they decide to add magnesium based on several studies that people are less likely to have heart attacks, would you support it? Would you panic?
I think the mere mention of "lithium" makes you so crazy. And that's when you need to take lithium.
I never said you die from lithium deficiency. You're distorting what I said. I said it may cause suicides and murder and that means taking life away. It is impossible to be deficient since it's everywhere. We just may not get enough of it! It's same with many nutrients - many have all the nutrients, just some are not high enough to confer protection or optimal health.
It is paternalism? Well, tough that I want to see more lives saved.
posts from hell
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Please, I am skeptical of faith healing, homeopathy, and all that. I am a skeptic. Studies have done on those and failed to see results.
Lithium in water - they found results. So that suggests something is going on. If there are studies saying "nope, no effects whatsoever" then I'll accept that but I suspect lithium is an essential mineral underutilized by most people. If they say, "There's harm from it" then we should just stop it. That's the proper protocol.
What if they decide to add magnesium based on several studies that people are less likely to have heart attacks, would you support it? Would you panic?
I think the mere mention of "lithium" makes you so crazy. And that's when you need to take lithium.
So you're discounting the people who go to magical springs that are loaded with lithium for their wives because that is basic homeopathy. Sounds good to me.
