Add lithium to drinking water

jillio said:
Shall we go back to the days of adding cocaine to Coca-Cola so that we have a lesser incidence of chronic fatigue and depression?
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Yes!!!!!!!!!! :lol:
 
netrox said:
Doesn't it ever occur to you that lithium may be an essential nutrient for brain development? Lithium is found in many plants and dairy products.
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Then why put it in the water? Much of the population consumes dairy products on a daily basis.
 
StSapphire said:
No, and attempting to claim that it is, is at best ignorant of the explanations many of us have given, and at worst intentionally dishonest.

I don't eat cereal. Am I now deficient in vitamins?

Perhaps, although with brushing your teeth as a much more common habit than it was when fluoride was first introduced to the water supply, I doubt that the effect would be nearly as large as it was when that first happened.

What does this have to do with anything? You get folate from your diet, not from forcing it into the water supply.

No, people did live and many were not disfigured or diseased before vaccines existed. That's not to say that they're unnecessary - we've been able to practically eradicate entire diseases because of vaccines. But that's still an entirely different category than putting something into the water supply.

Luckily, people who are far more educated on the subject than you who actually make these decisions.
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First, you are really underestimating how much I know about nutrition. I said "possible nutritional deficiency" - even arsenic may be an essential nutrient but we get plenty of it in our diet and exposure to air so it's not that important. Silicon is theorized to be an essential nutrient as well. But we get plenty of it in our diet so it's hard to find true deficiency. As I have said, lithium is found in many plants and dairy so we basically functioned just fine but is it optimal? That's the question. Studies suggest that in populations where lithium is rich, there's lower rate of murder, suicide, and violence. New evidence shows that lithium promotes neuronogensis and that is important because we lose them on daily basis.

Folate is added to rice and cereals after they're refined. It's required in flour and cereal products (with some exceptions). Look up on cereals - you'll see its fortified with vitamins.

Just because you don't eat cereal doesn't mean you're deficient but as a population, it may have lower levels of vitamins and that translate to more people having deficiency. The fact that you don't eat cereal doesn't mean a thing when it comes to looking at populations who consume cereal without fortification or with fortification. Most people eat cereal and if you don't eat cereal, you're removed from the study because you DON'T count, period.

And you think I am making decisions?!?! No, I said over that it's worth repeating the studies. If it works as expected with bigger populations and controls, then yes, lithium should be added. Scientists would concur and would like lithium added.

And again, it's the dose that makes a difference. We're exposed to heavy metals all the time but most of us don't suffer damage from it. We have mercury. We have arsenic. We have lead. It doesn't mean that we're poisoned. It's the dose that makes a huge difference.

And for lithium to be added in *trace* amount - less than a thousand of a regular dose of lithium for mental health care - will NOT cause the side effects as you claim it will. Please show me studies where *trace* amount of lithium causes renal failure or other side effects as you'd get from therapeutic dose of lithium. I bet you there isn't.

Just exactly - really, seriously, think about it - how it is different from drinking water which already have rich source of lithium in certain areas than drinking water that's low in lithium? Suppose your drinking water has a surge of lithium in it but within trace amounts, would you stop drinking? People have been drinking lithium-rich water forever. It's not unusual.

What's unusual is the observation that those who drink lithium water have lower rate of murder, suicide, and bipolar than those who drink water with little or no lithium. Why are you resisting the novel idea that adding lithium may save lives?
 
Dang. Now we know of at least one person on this forum who would enthusiastically support a new federal law: take lithium every day. :shock:
 
jillio said:
There is no evidence whatsoever that lack of naturally occurring lithium in water creates any type of nutritional deficiency. And there is especially no evidence that lack of naturally occurring lithium in water is a cause of greater degrees of diagnosable mental illness or that adding an artificial chemical compound to drinking water will decrease the incidence of any category of mental illness.
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Gee! Lithium is not artificial - it's a natural mineral!

Deficiency means not getting optimal dose for healthy development. A lot of people are deficient in many vitamins/minerals yet seem to be "fine" but they're not getting the optimal nutrition.

"There is growing evidence that lithium may be an essential mineral in the human diet. Animals on low-lithium diets have shown reproductive problems, shorter life spans, poor lipid metabolism, and behavioral abnormalities. (7-9) In epidemiological studies of humans, low levels of lithium in drinking water have been correlated with a higher incidence of mental hospital admissions, (10) violent crime, suicide, drug addiction, (11) and heart disease. (11) Lithium levels in the scalp hair of violent criminals and heart disease patients have been found to be lower than those in healthy volunteers. (13)

The amount of lithium in a normal diet varies considerably. Table 2 shows dietary intakes of lithium reported in the literature. These values should be considered approximate, since different researchers give different answers. Some lithium is present in essentially all foods, with the highest concentrations reported in eggs and milk. (14) Water can also be a substantial source. The lithium content of drinking water in the United States ranges from 0.00001 to 0.170 mg/liter, with an average of 0.002 mg/liter. (15,16) El Paso, Texas, has one of the highest concentrations, and is the location most noted as a high-lithium, low-mental illness site. (10,11) One region of Northern Chile has 5 mg/liter lithium in the water, which has been consumed for years without adverse effects reported — and even water with 6 to 12 mg/liter lithium from an industrial outflow has not been shown to cause any obvious problems. (23)

Lithium's Potential Role in Preventing Alzheimer’s Disease Mineral Benefits Other Conditions Besides Bipolar Disorder

"Low lithium levels in the young children ages 3-6 years (-30%, p=0.04), in the mothers of children with ASD (-39%, p=0.05) and especially in the mothers of young children ages 3-8 years (-56%, p=0.005). The consistency of this result in the mothers and the children, and the high statistical significance in the young mothers, suggests that this is an important factor in ASD."

Essential and Toxic Metals : Autism Research Institute

And you think perhaps adding lithium MAY reduce incidence of autism? Who knows.

Handbook of nutritionally essential ... - Google Books
 
jillio said:
Ah. The old "if a little bit is good, a lot will be better." That is the logic that people who abuse prescription drugs use.
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I subscribe to a simple known fact: its the dose that makes a difference. Too little or too much is bad. Period.

You subscribe to a slippery slope fallacy.
 
Your first link is in relation to prescribing lithium to those at risk of developing Alzheimers, not putting it in the water supply for everyone to consume.

And while lithium is a naturally occurring substance, in order to place it in all water supplies, we would have to use a chemically manufactured lithium.

The 2nd link shows nothing more than remote possibility.

Your 3rd link is to a book that I have no interest in buying.
 
netrox said:
I subscribe to a simple known fact: its the dose that makes a difference. Too little or too much is bad. Period.

You subscribe to a slippery slope fallacy.
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Nope, I susbscribe to not medicating an entire population based on limited studies showing a small possible effect.
 
jillio said:
Nope, I susbscribe to not medicating an entire population based on limited studies showing a small possible effect.
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That's where you're wrong. :)

It's NOT medicating, it's about supplying lithium to help reduce rate of deficiency or to maintain optimal mental health. We did with fluoride. We did with fortification. We did a lot for the public.

Lithium is NOT manufactured, it's extracted from the ground. Sheesh, you are so wrong. Come on, fess up. :)

Would you drink water that's already naturally rich in lithium? If you won't, then you're not being logical at all. :)

As for japan not having deficiencies - the difference between Americans and Japanese is that they eat a LOT Of vegetables, we don't. We're much meat and potatoes. If Americans start eating MORE as recommended, then we would NOT need fortification or even flouride but the reality is that many don't get enough of them.
 
If you're so worried about toxic effects of lithium, how come that healthy people who eat well get around 2 mg of lithium a day? Normal dose for bipolar is 800-1000 mg a day. If you think we'll have renal failure from having lithium in water which is MUCH less 100 mcg (note the microgram?) per liter?!?!

Sheesh, where are the people having renal failures and side effects from consuming lithium from plants and dairy?!?!
 
netrox said:
If you're so worried about toxic effects of lithium, how come that healthy people who eat well get around 2 mg of lithium a day? Normal dose for bipolar is 800-1000 mg a day. If you think we'll have renal failure from having lithium in water which is MUCH less 100 mcg (note the microgram?) per liter?!?!

Sheesh, where are the people having renal failures and side effects from consuming lithium from plants and dairy?!?!
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Well out of media attention range, apparently. :P
 
netrox said:
We do but adding it more may help more.
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That is why I had to spend a month in hospital and rehab last month. I abused my antibiotics to the point where my new infection became drug resistant as a result. I had the same idea bout my antibiotics.
 
fluoride is just as bad.

The Truth About Fluoride! - It is POISON!

Fluoride Drinking Water Filter - Fluoride Poisoning Facts

The Fluoride Myth about putting fluoride in drinking water

You may think that fluoride is put in your drinking water to save your teeth, but guess again!

Actual studies, like the one by the National Institute of Dental Research on 39,000 children show no significant difference in number of cavities on those who were drank fluoridated water vs those who didn't. In fact fluoride can give you "dental fluorosis" a sophisticated name for brown, pitted teeth.

ANOTHER FACT: In 1954, the Christian Science Monitor surveyed all 81 Nobel Prize winners in the fields of chemistry, medicine and physiology on their opinion regarding water fluoridation. Seventy-nine percent failed to endorse water fluoridation.

Fluoride Poisoning and Cancer

Fluoride can give you a lot of other things too, namely cancer.

Qualified scientists in numerous laboratory tests have found that fluoride in water, even 1.0 part per million, (the amount typically used in water fluoridation) is a carcinogen and mutagen.

Fluoridation of water causes 20,000 plus cancer deaths per year in the U.S.

Other Poisoning Maladies

If you are pregnant, fluoride might increase your chances of having a child with Down's syndrome.

If you are a senior, it will make you more likely to have hip fractures.

If you are a virile guy it could make you infertile as it tends, according to a study in India, to cause testicular damage.

A little fluoride goes a long way, because it accumulates in the bones, teeth, in food chain and in the environment.

Fluoride water additives often contain other highly toxic materials

The fluoride that is most likely added to your water supply is really hydrofluorisilicic acid in a hazardous waste liquor" which contains also lead, mercury, beryllium, radioactive material, arsenic and other pollutants.

The Cover-Up

"Fluoridation is an attempt by industry to camouflage their deadliest pollutant, with government officials and Madison Avenue advertisers beating the drums. The fluoridation empire is like a castle built on quicksand." says Gladys Caldwell, author, "Fluoridation and Truth Decay", 1974.

As far back as April of 1950 in the Journal of the American Dental Association, Vol 40:440, a study by G. J. Cox and H.C. Hodge, "Toxicity of Fluorides in Relation to Their Use in Dentistry", made it clear that fluoride is a poison: "Some of the basic and necessary metabolic processes in the cell are stopped by concentrations of fluorides such as are found in acute poisoning. These changes are comparable to those seen in high-grade anoxia (lack of sufficient oxygen in the body tissues) and are the basis for describing fluorides as general protoplasmic poisons." Fluorides have also been used historically for mind control:


Charles Elliot Perkins, research scientist sent by the US government to take charge of I.G. Farben chemical plants in Germany discovered that " The real purpose behind water fluoridation is to reduce the resistance of the masses to domination, control and loss of liberty." In his report to the Lee Foundation for Nutritional Research in October of 1954, he said, "Repeated doses of infinitesimal amounts of fluoride will in time reduce an individual's power to resist domination, by slowly poisoning and narcotizing a certain area of the brain, thus making him submissive to the will of those who wish to govern him."

Prozac

This is why Fluorides are a key ingredient of Prozac and many other psychiatric drugs. Prozac, scientific name Fluoxetine, is 94% fluoride.

Toxicologist Phyllis Mullenix demonstrated in the mid-1980's that rats given fluoride as youngsters or adults became passive, underactive and lethargic.

Who is behind the push to get fluoride in our water systems?

Special interest groups who want a convenient way to dump an industrial waste product.

And who wants to ingest an industrial waste product? Dr. Charles Gordon Heyd, Past President of the American Medical Association said: "I am appalled at the prospect of using water as a vehicle for drugs. Fluoride is a corrosive poison that will produce serious effects on a long- term basis. Any attempt to use water this way is deplorable."

"I say this in all earnestness and sincerity of a scientist who has spent nearly 20 years research into the chemistry, biochemistry, physiology and pathology of fluorides. Any person who drinks artificially fluoridated water for a period of one year or more will never again be the same person." Charles Elliot Perkins,
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Prozac is already in our water... what else we need??
 
netrox said:
That's where you're wrong. :)

It's NOT medicating, it's about supplying lithium to help reduce rate of deficiency or to maintain optimal mental health. We did with fluoride. We did with fortification. We did a lot for the public.

Lithium is NOT manufactured, it's extracted from the ground. Sheesh, you are so wrong. Come on, fess up. :)

Would you drink water that's already naturally rich in lithium? If you won't, then you're not being logical at all. :)

As for japan not having deficiencies - the difference between Americans and Japanese is that they eat a LOT Of vegetables, we don't. We're much meat and potatoes. If Americans start eating MORE as recommended, then we would NOT need fortification or even flouride but the reality is that many don't get enough of them.
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I feel I need to point out that the aim of fluoride in water is a preventative measure for dental issues . What are teeth; but bone, enamel, nerve, and blood supply?

You're hypothesizing that lithium in drinking water has the same merits and is for mental issues.

Clearly, these two things are quite different. Scientists and doctors would agree that we do not understand how the brain functions and how mental health is affected by different things in the environment. It is so much more complicated than strengthening teeth.
 
I propose Chill Pill in our water system
 
netrox said:
That's where you're wrong. :)

It's NOT medicating, it's about supplying lithium to help reduce rate of deficiency or to maintain optimal mental health. We did with fluoride. We did with fortification. We did a lot for the public.

Lithium is NOT manufactured, it's extracted from the ground. Sheesh, you are so wrong. Come on, fess up. :)

Would you drink water that's already naturally rich in lithium? If you won't, then you're not being logical at all. :)

As for japan not having deficiencies - the difference between Americans and Japanese is that they eat a LOT Of vegetables, we don't. We're much meat and potatoes. If Americans start eating MORE as recommended, then we would NOT need fortification or even flouride but the reality is that many don't get enough of them.
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its like me telling you to go ahead and chug liquid mercury. would you do it? If not, read your argument and come back to me.
 
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