Across country, GOP pushes photo ID at the polls

[Jiro]

IMHO it is immoral to damn children over things they have no control over.

That is *my* set of morals.

again - your heart is in the right place but your agenda is misguided.
again - we are not that merciless. we do try to help them especially children but some does fall thru crack.
again - how they can live a good life in here to begin with if they're undocumented? That's not a way to start a career in here

 

[TheOracle]

so what do you propose? Let him live like a criminal?

We do have immigration amnesty for illegals.

Oh...right...maybe if he suffers a crime...like getting a gun aimed at his head...

U-Visa: Illegal Immigrants Become Legal Residents Via Crime Victimization - Page 1 - News - San Francisco - SF Weekly

Please tell me how my student could get amnesty. He can't serve in the military. He can't get amnesty with a college degree. He can't pay his way in. So tell me. What do you want him to do?

 

[Jiro]

Oh...right...maybe if he suffers a crime...like getting a gun aimed at his head...

U-Visa: Illegal Immigrants Become Legal Residents Via Crime Victimization - Page 1 - News - San Francisco - SF Weekly

Please tell me how my student could get amnesty. He can't serve in the military. He can't get amnesty with a college degree. He can't pay his way in. So tell me. What do you want him to do?

seek immigration lawyer and start being a law-abiding resident.

 

[Reba]

Since when does alien only mean those who do not have papers and immigrant meaning those who do? You can be an alien and have legal status.

Read the definitions below. Maybe they will help you understand the difference.

You can be an immigrant and not have legal papers.

No, you can't. I sure hope you aren't teaching all this misinformation to your students.

Immigration Terms and Definitions Involving Aliens

Alien
An individual who is not a U.S. citizen or U.S. national.

Immigrant
An alien who has been granted the right by the USCIS to reside permanently in the United States and to work without restrictions in the United States. Also known as a Lawful Permanent Resident (LPR). All immigrants are eventually issued a "green card" (USCIS Form I-551), which is the evidence of the alien’s LPR status. LPR’s who are awaiting the issuance of their green cards may bear an I-551 stamp in their foreign passports.

Nonimmigrant
An alien who has been granted the right by the USCIS to reside temporarily in the United States.

Illegal Alien
Also known as an "Undocumented Alien," is an alien who has entered the United States illegally and is deportable if apprehended, or an alien who entered the United States legally but who has fallen "out of status" and is deportable.

An undocumented or "illegal alien" is an alien who entered the United States illegally without the proper authorization and documents, or is an alien who once entered the United States legally and has since violated the terms of the status in which he entered the United States or has overstayed the time limits of his original status.

 

[Jiro]

I don't think you get it...

One who has a green card is both an alien and an immigrant.
One who has no paperwork is both an alien and an immigrant.

One can be an immigrant without being an alien. For example, my (adopted) mother is an immigrant from Israel. She is not, however, an alien.

makes absolutely no sense at all. That's like saying.... when visiting a country, I am a traveler but I am not a tourist/visitor

 

[TheOracle]

seek immigration lawyer and start being a law-abiding resident.

*sigh*

That's not going to get him legal status. He doesn't qualify. He doesn't possess some exceptional degree and national talent, he hasn't been married to a US citizen for years, he has not been the victim of a violent crime, and he has no close relatives who are citizens or GC holders.

 

[TheOracle]

makes absolutely no sense at all. That's like saying.... when visiting a country, I am a traveler but I am not a tourist/visitor

Huh? If I've been in the US illegally for 11 years and have no plans to return to my native country, how am I not an immigrant?

 

[Jiro]

*sigh*

That's not going to get him legal status. He doesn't qualify. He doesn't possess some exceptional degree and national talent, he hasn't been married to a US citizen for years, he has not been the victim of a violent crime, and he has no close relatives who are citizens or GC holders.

so...... why prolong his suffering in here as a criminal?

 

[Jiro]

Huh? If I've been in the US illegally for 11 years and have no plans to return to my native country, how am I not an immigrant?

sigh.... immigrant means one is granted with permission to live in here permanently.

if one has been here illegally for 11 years, then you are an illegal alien. If you are not documented, then you cannot call yourself as an immigrant. Get yourself documented and then you can call yourself as an immigrant.

 

[Reba]

Huh? If I've been in the US illegally for 11 years and have no plans to return to my native country, how am I not an immigrant?

Because you don't fit the legal definition as set by the US government, which is:

Immigrant
An alien who has been granted the right by the USCIS to reside permanently in the United States and to work without restrictions in the United States. Also known as a Lawful Permanent Resident (LPR). All immigrants are eventually issued a "green card" (USCIS Form I-551), which is the evidence of the alien’s LPR status. LPR’s who are awaiting the issuance of their green cards may bear an I-551 stamp in their foreign passports.

 

[TheOracle]

Read the definitions below. Maybe they will help you understand the difference.


No, you can't. I sure hope you aren't teaching all this misinformation to your students.

Immigration Terms and Definitions Involving Aliens

Alien
An individual who is not a U.S. citizen or U.S. national.

Immigrant
An alien who has been granted the right by the USCIS to reside permanently in the United States and to work without restrictions in the United States. Also known as a Lawful Permanent Resident (LPR). All immigrants are eventually issued a "green card" (USCIS Form I-551), which is the evidence of the alien’s LPR status. LPR’s who are awaiting the issuance of their green cards may bear an I-551 stamp in their foreign passports.

Nonimmigrant
An alien who has been granted the right by the USCIS to reside temporarily in the United States.

Illegal Alien
Also known as an "Undocumented Alien," is an alien who has entered the United States illegally and is deportable if apprehended, or an alien who entered the United States legally but who has fallen "out of status" and is deportable.

An undocumented or "illegal alien" is an alien who entered the United States illegally without the proper authorization and documents, or is an alien who once entered the United States legally and has since violated the terms of the status in which he entered the United States or has overstayed the time limits of his original status.

I'm talking about immigrant as a noun, like I stated. Again, I find the terms "alien" and "illegal" to be a little dehumanizing in everyday conversation. As far as my classroom...they call it "without papers". They are well-versed on the legalities of "paper-hood" when they get to Civics at my former school.

But using your logic...why not harp on people who use the term "illegal immigrant"? Or is this just partisan pickiness?

 

[TheOracle]

1. A person who leaves one country to settle permanently in another.

immigrant - definition of immigrant by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

I can increase font size, too.

 

[TheOracle]

sigh.... immigrant means one is granted with permission to live in here permanently.

if one has been here illegally for 11 years, then you are an illegal alien. If you are not documented, then you cannot call yourself as an immigrant. Get yourself documented and then you can call yourself as an immigrant.

And yet...you say...

we have millions of illegal immigrants. I certainly don't want them voting.

So Jiro, does this mean you're opposed to immigrants without papers voting? What about green card holders? Those with visas?

And what about places where immigrants can vote in municipal elections?

first of all.... I said ILLEGAL immigrants. They do not have rights to be here. They do not get to have same legal rights as legal immigrants (beside rights at legal proceeding).

why would you want illegals to vote?

Muy interesante...

 

[Reba]

I'm talking about immigrant as a noun

I am, too. I do know my parts of speech. I also know my definitions.

Again, I find the terms "alien" and "illegal" to be a little dehumanizing in everyday conversation.

There is absolutely nothing dehumanizing about the word alien unless you're talking about extraterrestrial non-humanoids. Otherwise, when the word is used properly, there's nothing wrong with it.

As far as my classroom...they call it "without papers". They are well-versed on the legalities of "paper-hood" when they get to Civics at my former school.

They aren't all that well versed if they're as confused about the terminology as you are . . . and you're the teacher!

But using your logic...why not harp on people who use the term "illegal immigrant"?

I thought I explained that?

Or is this just partisan pickiness?

It's called accuracy over political correctness.

 

[Jiro]

1. A person who leaves one country to settle permanently in another.

immigrant - definition of immigrant by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

I can increase font size, too.

best to stick with USCIS definition instead of dictionary.

 

[Jiro]

And yet...you say...



Muy interesante...

right.... look at the word that precedes "immigrant"

 

[Reba]

1. A person who leaves one country to settle permanently in another.

immigrant - definition of immigrant by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

I can increase font size, too.

Apparently you still didn't read it even when it was increased.

"Immigrant
An alien who has been granted the right by the USCIS to reside permanently in the United States and to work without restrictions in the United States. Also known as a Lawful Permanent Resident (LPR)."

That is the legal definition as recognized by the US government.

If you can't accept it, I'm sorry.

 

[TheOracle]

best to stick with USCIS definition instead of dictionary.

Says the guy who says "illegal immigrant".



Reba: I'm not confused on terms. I just don't use that kind of language in my everday speak in the classroom. It's not helpful. It's not a caring classroom community. It serves no purpose. If you want to complain, you may certainly write to the Colorado Board of Education and challenge my qualifications as a teacher.

 

[Reba]

best to stick with USCIS definition instead of dictionary.

Yeah, I can see someone showing up at court to defend his status with a dictionary.

 

[TheOracle]

Apparently you still didn't read it even when it was increased.

"Immigrant
An alien who has been granted the right by the USCIS to reside permanently in the United States and to work without restrictions in the United States. Also known as a Lawful Permanent Resident (LPR)."

That is the legal definition as recognized by the US government.

If you can't accept it, I'm sorry.

Oh, right...and people on AD are disabled...

As Potts and pfh like to point out, it's semantics. I wouldn't say, "This is my friend pfh and he's disabled." What's the point of that? He may be legally disabled, but that's not an appropriate characterization of him as a person.