Why Cochlear Implants Hurt Deaf Culture?

DefLord said:
So it would be like saying deaf parents have no business raising hearing children.
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Eh? I don't know what you meant by that. It doesn't make no sense.
 
TrippLA said:
I wish that we can give IceCream to being drunk or hazing him to being drunk with bunch of beers. That will be great news for me and if he can said "CI sucks" when he's drunk. Anyone who are ready to go party? :lol:
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Huh??
 
R2D2 said:
Poor Angel! I have visions of you like Wonder Woman holding up your wrists to deflect all those bullets flying in!
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:rofl: That was cute!

R2D2 said:
I've never actually seen anything official in terms of redefining yourself as a deaf, hard of hearing or hearing person after receiving an implant. I've only ever seen it expressed as a change in your hearing loss when you have the processor turned on only. For example I hope for my hearing loss with the processor turned on to go from profound to moderate.

As a person though I won't change and when the processor is turned off I will be back to where I was before. My deafness has defined me and made me what I am now.

To be honest I find it bizarre for someone to no longer consider themselves deaf upon receiving an implant. But that's just me. Maybe the people who change their definitions are thinking more of deaf with a capital D and associate it only with use of sign etc.
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Yes I agree and I also find it to be quite bizarre as well too for someone to consider themselves hearing rather than deaf or hard of hearing... :dunno:
 
VamPyroX said:
If a situation like this came up to me, it would probably be like this...

Me: "Oh, I see you got CI. Cool."
CI: "Yeah, I'm now hearing."
Me: "You mean,k you hear like a hearing person or you are no longer deaf?"
CI: "I am hearing. I'm not deaf."
Me: "Okay, without your CI... what are you?"
CI: "I am hearing."
Me: "Okay, take off your CI and prove it."
CI: "No, I can't hear."
Me: "Oh, you can't hear? Wouldn't that make you deaf?"
CI: "Oh, shut up. You don't know. Bye." *walks off*
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:rofl: :rofl: You're pretty good explaining things in full details...


DreamDeaf and Vampy, you both made some very good points, Thank you !
 
DefLord said:
So it would be like saying deaf parents have no business raising hearing children.
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What made you say that, I have three hearing sons and I'm a deaf mom
 
Vampy.....good example!!!! And I mean even WITH the input we get from CI or hearing aids, we still don't hear like hearing people.(with the exception of late deafened folks) Even I don't and I've only got a conductive hoh loss!!!! There's a great article by the guy who wrote Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat, Oliver Sacks in "Anthropologist on Mars" about a blind guy who regained his sight. He could see but it wasn't the way sighted people think of seeing. He saw as a blind man. Someone with hearing aids or CIs, can hear, but we hear like DHH folks, not the way a hearing person hears!
 
DreamDeaf said:
Then I asked him if he put down hearing on his applications...he said yes.

I then told him it was possible he was breaking the law - because by ADA, medical and law definitions, he was still "disabled" and therefore, he was still considered DEAF.
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Legal precedence (and I believe the ADA as well) have determined that any disclosure of disability must be voluntary. You can't claim rights under the ADA, Sect. 504, etc., if you don't declare, but you're not required to declare. It's a civil rights issue.
 
VamPyroX said:
Getting CI doesn't make a person hearing. If a person believes that he is hearing because he has CI, you can point out that he is still deaf. If he is stubborn and still considers himself hearing, let it go. It only shows that he isn't ready to accept the fact that he is still deaf. If other people see him say that, he's only making it worse for himself. In the work force, co-workers could see this as a problem. If a person can't accept the fact that he is still deaf, maybe he won't accept the fact that he did other things. Refusing to accept facts is like lying. You lie too much and it becomes a thing for you. You refuse to accept the facts and it becomes a thing for you. In the future, you could make a mistake on the job and end up refusing to accept the fact that you made a mistake and move on. You could have a girlfriend and do something harmful to her that she dumps you, but you refuse to accept the fact that it was you who harmed her. I've seen these things often here at NTID. I've seen students who get so into refusing to accept facts that they don't listen to the truth because they feel that they live better on lies. But, they go deeper and deeper in those lies that they lose their friends and end up leaving school. I've seen students here who have CI and say that they are hearing. Yet, they have horrible writing and reading skills. They take 5 years to get a 2-year degree. They don't have a job. They don't have any friends. It's a sad world for these people.

If a situation like this came up to me, it would probably be like this...

Me: "Oh, I see you got CI. Cool."
CI: "Yeah, I'm now hearing."
Me: "You mean,k you hear like a hearing person or you are no longer deaf?"
CI: "I am hearing. I'm not deaf."
Me: "Okay, without your CI... what are you?"
CI: "I am hearing."
Me: "Okay, take off your CI and prove it."
CI: "No, I can't hear."
Me: "Oh, you can't hear? Wouldn't that make you deaf?"
CI: "Oh, shut up. You don't know. Bye." *walks off*
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Extactly as same what I did talked w/my friend... I'm glad My friend honestly w/me.. Isn't 100% hear everything Nope... Only I can hear sounds and wording 80% but not picked it up pieces of sound as merge meaning words... 30%... My friend admit it.. but not mean say that "I'm hearing" but still as condiser I'm Deaf as part of CI helps me hear what sound coming from... that's all their point of view... Have not made official communcation CLCEARLY OUT OF LOUD...


Vampy your comment extreme excellent pov and funny one! Yes.. FACT!
 
Cheri said:
Eh? I don't know what you meant by that. It doesn't make no sense.
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I understood what Deflord meant. He was saying that if we turn your argument that hearing parents don't know how to raise deaf children around that it could also be argued that deaf people don't know how to raise hearing children since they don't understand hearing culture, language etc. It works both ways.

I am a mother of a hearing child and I would have been extremely offended if someone suggested to me that I needed help raising my child because I didn't know what it was like to be hearing. As it is when people make condescending remarks like "your daughter speaks really well!" it makes me bristle somewhat.
 
GalaxyAngel said:
Extactly as same what I did talked w/my friend... I'm glad My friend honestly w/me.. Isn't 100% hear everything Nope... Only I can hear sounds and wording 80% but not picked it up pieces of sound as merge meaning words... 30%... My friend admit it.. but not mean say that "I'm hearing" but still as condiser I'm Deaf as part of CI helps me hear what sound coming from... that's all their point of view... Have not made official communcation CLCEARLY OUT OF LOUD...


Vampy your comment extreme excellent pov and funny one! Yes.. FACT!
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I don't quite understand what you are saying. Are you saying that one must hear 100% for a CI to be a success? It depends on where your friend was starting off from. If he or she was not hearing or understanding much to begin with and was an adult at the time of the implant then it is unrealistic to expect 100% performance.
 
I think the bottom line is that CIs doesn't have to hurt the deaf culture if it is inclusive, welcoming and non judgmental of parental choices. I think that if there is a positive attitude to CIs and a positive attitude to ASL more people will be attracted to it.

The thing is that CIs are here to stay and people are going to do what they want anyway, regardless of what other people think. It's a free society. This means that to survive a culture has to adapt. It won't survive by saying "we don't need to change because you are wrong" since people will vote with their feet and do their own thing.

I believe that many in deaf organisations to their credit have recognised this and have moderated previously strongly oppositional stances to CIs.
 
R2D2 said:
I don't quite understand what you are saying. Are you saying that one must hear 100% for a CI to be a success? It depends on where your friend was starting off from. If he or she was not hearing or understanding much to begin with and was an adult at the time of the implant then it is unrealistic to expect 100% performance.
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My friend explained me.. UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING WORD AND SOUNDS... not 110% percent.. Only can Understand what sound alike and voice.. 80% but can't understand specific sound clearly your voice not even recogolized it 30%

Not that reason I'm hearing and cured.. Nope.. FACT is still Deaf part of CI no matter what can hear you any kinds background that's all.

For example.. My friend can hear keyboard sounds alike "CLACKING LOUD", siren and high sounds but not regluar normal sounds... hard to understand some of what recoglized it specific word merge sounds.. Trying figures it out what that sound and talk voice too... not effective 110%..

"Concern about the future techoglies improved better than old ones ci system and has to go operation again and have replace best techolgies.. cost you more expense $$$ That ridcouisly costly.. my friend said... "
 
GalaxyAngel said:
My friend explained me.. UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING WORD AND SOUNDS... not 110% percent.. Only can Understand what sound alike and voice.. 80% but can't understand specific sound clearly your voice not even recogolized it 30%

Not that reason I'm hearing and cured.. Nope.. FACT is still Deaf part of CI no matter what can hear you any kinds background that's all.

For example.. My friend can hear keyboard sounds alike "CLACKING LOUD", siren and high sounds but not regluar normal sounds... hard to understand some of what recoglized it specific word merge sounds.. Trying figures it out what that sound and talk voice too... not effective 110%..

"Concern about the future techoglies improved better than old ones ci system and has to go operation again and have replace best techolgies.. cost you more expense $$$ That ridcouisly costly.. my friend said... "
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I agree that CIs is not normal hearing, it should not be touted as being a cure. People's results vary very individually. Those who once were hearing, who were implanted young and who were already doing well with hearing aids are those to tend to do the best with it and many have had excellent results with 100% speech comprehension.
People who were always deaf and didn't have much auditory input beforehand don't do so well with it. I have a friend who got a CI as an adult when they first came out and he had never heard sound before and he hated it and doesn't wear it. His brain just didn't know what to do with the sound because he had never heard it before. He just turned it off and is happy as he is. He understands though that his experience is not something that everyone else will have.

Only the very old CIs have to be re-implanted. The later models they have designed them so that it is much easier to upgrade without having the need for repeat surgery.
 
R2D2 said:
I understood what Deflord meant. He was saying that if we turn your argument that hearing parents don't know how to raise deaf children around that it could also be argued that deaf people don't know how to raise hearing children since they don't understand hearing culture, language etc. It works both ways.
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How does it works both ways? Deflord is missing the point. Let me explain something here,


When I said that, Most hearing parents implanted their Deaf children, they're not accepting the child for who he/she is since birth, does not involved their children in the Deaf community, ONLY hearing world.

When Most Deaf Parents have hearing children, Do you see them implanting or poking something in their ears in order to make a child deaf like the parents?No, because Deaf parents accept their hearing children, the way he/she was born.

And Most hearing parents want their CI implant children involved more in the hearing world because the parents are hearing.

And Most Deaf parents allowing their hearing children involved in hearing word, (Hearing Culture) because the children are hearing, The parents are not dragging them in their world (Deaf Culture)

You see the big differences?
 
If there was no implications to being profoundly deaf with no benefit from hearing aids in terms of quality of life I would agree with you 100%. I would also question what would an implant achieve. But reality is that life is very challenging for those who are profoundly deaf with no benefit from hearing aids.

I don't doubt that a few hearing parents only implant because they want their deaf child to become just like them with no compromises or acknowlegement that they are deaf and have needs to seek out other deaf people. Some parents just don't want to put in any effort or help their children seek out others like them. But you'll find this subsection in every group.

But many hearing parents are not like this. Most decide to proceed with an implant mainly because they want for their profoundly deaf child who may not benefit from hearing aids to be at least bilingual so that barriers in the workplace and in education are less formidable. They do it young because they are aware of research that shows that the earlier its done the better the results are.

I think that by portraying deaf parents as only simply wanting to change their children into hearing people is alienating and doesn't do much for dialogue because they will simply just switch off, knowing that this doesn't apply to them. And how will that help with them supporting access of their children to the deaf culture if people are just judging them?
 
Besides deaf parents have no need to change their hearing children into deaf children via poking things into ears and operations, there are no material advantages to being deaf and there are no challenges to being hearing.

It isn't that simple.
 
R2D2 said:
And how will that help with them supporting access of their children to the deaf culture if people are just judging them?
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They get judged because the things they say, insults the deaf, Like example

One member created a thread asking a bizarre question asking "If You had a child today, would You want it to be deaf", It might not be an insult to some of you, but it is an insult to me. I've seen a member here stated that, "I want my child to hear because we can hear, our relatives can hear too". I've also seen a member here stated that sign language was not requirement for implanted child to learn, and stated that maybe in later years down the road they would pick up signs. It's always about "them" Instead of what about what the child wants? Nobody cares about what the deaf child wants. Would a deaf child wants to learn the Deaf Culture, because the fact that the child is deaf regarding with CI?

That's why you'll see members here judge those parents or late implated adults because of how they wording their posts, It's more like a slap in the face to the Deaf community, and insults to the Deaf. ;) I'm not going to sit here and lie to you about how I've seen it and How I feel when reading posts across this board about those who shared their experience and based on how they answered questions, It's always about what they want, the parents the lated implainted deafness who doesn't have children yet, but somedays they would. But, what about the children? Do the implanted children have the right to know it's Deaf Culture?
 
Let me break and talk with someone that have CI. TLA is me and JoeCI is other guy with CI...

TLA: Have u got CI?
JoeCI: Yes, I got it and it feel so wonderful.
TLA: really?
JoeCI: It's work like big hearing superman.
TLA: Oh my god, give me some break... u talk like shit.
JoeCI: Why??? I think CI is good for all deaf people and You can active with it.
TLA: o_O What the fuck wrong with u?
JoeCI: Man, CI is great devices and make us become hearing again.
TLA: really? Are u no longer to be deaf?
JoeCI: Yes, That's wonderful news for me, I feel very loud and perfect.
TLA: How about u can swimming with CI?
JoeCI: It's work for me and I can swimming with CI in it, no problem.
TLA: Oh shit... Seriously, u looks like retarded.
JoeCI: Wait, I would ask to make new bills for all deaf people are required to get CI when they are born or toddlers with hearing loss. I hope it will pass and watch me.
TLA: Shit again, I doubt it would be happen and deaf people will probably protest against u, sounds like Civil Rights of 1964. God bless MLK.
JoeCI: I'm not talking about MLK, he looks stupid. I heard that black people don't get CI. I think they need go back to Africa.
TLA: What the fuck? Don't talk to me like racist and CI don't make u become hearing again. It's cannot cure it though.
JoeCI: Oh no, it's cure for me and I feel hearing today, I learned all new voices. I can talk regular as hearing people does.
TLA: that's bullshit, how about u sleeping at night?
JoeCI: I do sleep with CI on and batteries are run so well. I can hear real aliens and ghosts.
TLA: WOW... U R RETARDED. Please take ur CI off now.
JoeCI: It's still hearing after take CI off.
TLA: again, stop fool at me. I know u r still deaf when u got implanted... it don't cure to become hearing again, all of ur stories seems bullshit.
JoeCI:Leave me alone... You are bother me and not agree what I said. That hurts my feeling.
TLA: good bye and have bad luck with ur CI then STFU.

now, he got owned by our deaf anti-CI group. :rofl:

It supposed to notice what they talk about CI in real world and they think it will cure to become hearing again. I will see their stupid CI stories. :giggle:
 
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