Who are we talking about?

[Reba]

Satan knew all about the coming Messiah. It's certainly not beyond the realm of possibility that he would encourage "counterfeits" to rise up to lead people astray from the real Messiah, Jesus Christ.

 

[hottiedeafboi]

I always knew there are all kinds of religions for thousands of thousands of years. Like Egypt, god of the Nile, and many other gods, Greek has many religions/gods, India, many gods and far east, and etc. Like in the time of Jeremiah,,,, Israel and Judah worshipped all kinds of religions/gods, what the Living God said they had sex with prostitutes and cheating wives, like the god of Diana, its a sex goddess and there are other sex gods also. Worship other religions is like commtitting adultery, bec God who we worship, but instead believe in other religions, that's why Jesus came down to die for us, but still many rather be neutral and turn back on God who created us and turn back on grace which God has giving us. People today who mocked and anger against christians ( those christians who are not seeking to revenge, but share His Love), is no different what people did to Moses, Noah, Jeremiah and etc. Even Solomon worshipped different religion (who is also neutral), and God said what he did is very evil in His eyes before Him. Being religious or involve religions not going to get you anywhere. Inspite of authors try to pervert the message of Christ, which Christ said, there will be more and more apostasy bec of that. Not know the cause till now is obvious, like Davinci Code and other books try to set a trap like someone with a cnady to entice the children to trap them and its happening. Not know how much its going to fall into deeper pit till the Lord is ready to return. You think I have no feeling about these people and even you? I do have feeling for those who refuse which does hurt very much. Bec judgement of God is tragic times for those who reject Him and even God doesn't want to, but people refuse just as happen to the time of Jeremiah, Noah and Moses. Only Christ can save you and anyone from that. Not religion or being religious, even, being a baptist, methodist, catholics or other churches, only Jesus Himself is the way.

 

[Cloggy]

No, Christianity grew thru persecution. The more the Romans martyred the early Chrisitans, the more the faith spread. The Pilgrims faced persecution in England, so they moved to North America and spread their faith there. The strongest Christians were meeting in secret in communist USSR, and still do in China. Christianity grows stronger thru persecution. It becomes weaker when earthly life becomes too easy for Christians.

Every literalistic religion thinks it's right. Buddism doesn't think it's right and I thing they actually got it.

Regarding prosecution, that was not the reason it became so powerful. Power came from politics.
Had it come from proscecution, then the original christian values would have survived.
Respect of the woman, equality between man & woman, free thinking.

It was destroyed when politics decided to make the rules and eradicate the ones that thought differently.

I'm sorry, it was the literalis christians that prosecuted the free-thinking christiand - gnostics - in order to get the power.

 

[Cloggy]

Satan knew all about the coming Messiah. It's certainly not beyond the realm of possibility that he would encourage "counterfeits" to rise up to lead people astray from the real Messiah, Jesus Christ.

Satan is an invention of men. TO scare people into submission.... and it works well.

 

[Reba]

...Regarding prosecution, that was not the reason it became so powerful. Power came from politics. ...

Question: What political power did the Christians have in ancient Rome, communist USSR and China? What poltical power did the Pilgrims have when they left England? What political power do Christian missionaries have when they go to other countries?

Answer: None.

Question: What is the source of real power?

Answer: God.

 

[Reba]

Satan is an invention of men. TO scare people into submission.... and it works well.

He loves when you say that.

 

[Teresh]

Maybe that happened because Christianity is right.

Literalist Christianity will be right when its followers start following their own dogma. Ever had a cheeseburger, Reba?

No, Christianity grew thru persecution. The more the Romans martyred the early Chrisitans, the more the faith spread.

The faith did not grow faster than the number of non-Christians for a very long time. That changed when Constantine became a Christian and Christianity became the state religion (and non-Christian religions continued to be persecuted, as before, but this time by Christians)

The Pilgrims faced persecution in England, so they moved to North America and spread their faith there.

Yeah, persecution by other Christians. Anglicans persecuting the puritans.

Christianity grows stronger thru persecution. It becomes weaker when earthly life becomes too easy for Christians.

That must be why Christianity's membership is dwindling rapidly in favor of New Age practices or, more significantly, Islam.

Question: What political power did the Christians have in ancient Rome?

Um, the support of the Emporer?

 

[Cloggy]

Question: What political power did the Christians have in ancient Rome, communist USSR and China? What poltical power did the Pilgrims have when they left England? What political power do Christian missionaries have when they go to other countries?

Answer: None.

Question: What is the source of real power?

Answer: God.

It's not the power a religion has, it's the ruling power that uses religion to rule.
The type of religion doesn't matter. The romans chose christianity.

The source of real of real power: YOU!

By the way - like with the devil being invented by men, same with hell. Not sure which one was first. For me, there is no hell. Everyone goes to the same place.

But this is just my view. Keeping an open mind is what matters. And the real power is inside YOU.

 

[Reba]

Literalist Christianity will be right when its followers start following their own dogma. Ever had a cheeseburger, Reba?

I'm not a Jew, so I don't observe Kosher.

The faith did not grow faster than the number of non-Christians for a very long time. That changed when Constantine became a Christian and Christianity became the state religion (and non-Christian religions continued to be persecuted, as before, but this time by Christians)

That was one sect that Constantine supported; that was not the church (body) of real believers. The real church of believers is made up of born-again individuals, saved only thru the blood of Christ, not thru ritual or force.

Yeah, persecution by other Christians. Anglicans persecuting the puritans.

Persecuted by a state church, Church of England.

BTW, Puritans and Pilgrims were not the same group. The Puritans thought they could "purify" the Church of England from within. The Pilgrims wanted total separation from the Church of England, and had to cross the ocean to get it.

That must be why Christianity's membership is dwindling rapidly in favor of New Age practices or, more significantly, Islam.

In Western industrialized countries, Christians are fewer because they have become spoiled and materialistic. They want to follow "easy" beliefs. They have passed their spiritual peak. Christianity is actually growing in numbers in various African, South American and Asian countries.

Um, the support of the Emporer?

Do you mean the same Emperor that sent the Christian martyrs to their tortured deaths in the Coliseum? You call that support?

Have you read Foxes' Book of Martyrs?

 

[hottiedeafboi]

Thresh and cloggy, that's proven false there. Yes, there are some christians in btwn the time of Jesus and our times, christians fought against each other, but mostly, other religions has persecuting christians. Yes, new age decieved many and I have seen it and no wonder what's goes wrong in this society, thinking self which called humanist and individualist. So many enjoying to blame christians and accuse them and have seen it. I don't agree with extremist like cutting and condemn people of whatever sins, but its a personal response toagree I have sin or not. Many think they haven't sin and all others. All religions are different ways how I feel, but all the same inside of me, hollow. But Jesus, not the feelings, but deeper, its filling up my hollows and sense of cleansing. The Holy Spirit really taught me many ways as I keep seeing myself who I am. No rules or anything like that. Only what God sees about us instead of what "I" think or see. Yes, many christians fail in some ways, but thinking how you think christians are doing by powers and politics, got that mixed up, but I do not agree in some degree to be involve in politics, but worshipping the Lord and ask for guidance thru times of good and bad.

 

[Teresh]

I'm not a Jew, so I don't observe Kosher.

Of course you don't. I suppose that means you don't accept Torah as the Word of God to be taken 100% literally? Or do you?

If you do believe that, you're a hypocrite. And if you don't, then stop citing passages from the Tanakh.

That was one sect that Constantine supported; that was not the church (body) of real believers. The real church of believers is made up of born-again individuals, saved only thru the blood of Christ, not thru ritual or force.

Oh, no. No one 'forced' anyone to believe in Christianity in Rome. They did, however, kill anyone that didn't. When all of the non-Christians were dead, obviously Christianity would be the dominant religion.

If Society = Christians + Non-Christians,
Society - Non-Christians = Christians

Persecuted by a state church, Church of England.

Yeah. Still Christians, though.

In Western industrialized countries, Christians are fewer because they have become spoiled and materialistic. They want to follow "easy" beliefs. They have passed their spiritual peak. Christianity is actually growing in numbers in various African, South American and Asian countries.

You are exactly what you describe there. Refer to my original statement about cheeseburgers. Kashrut isn't the only God-given ste of commandments you're not following, I'm sure. The point is not that you're not following them. Whether or not you follow all of the rules doesn't concern me and I won't deny that I ignore several myself. The issue is that you claim that it's supposed to be taken literally and then turn around and ignore the parts that you don't like--which what your saviour Yeshua called hypocrisy.

Do you mean the same Emperor that sent the Christian martyrs to their tortured deaths in the Coliseum? You call that support?

No, a different one.

Have you read Foxes' Book of Martyrs?

No, nor do I have any intention of doing so.

Yes, there are some christians in btwn the time of Jesus and our times, christians fought against each other, but mostly, other religions has persecuting christians.

Oh really? When in the last... oh, let's say... 1500 years has Christianity been persecuted by another religion?

All religions are different ways how I feel, but all the same inside of me, hollow.

That's for you, not for everyone else. Christianity always felt hollow to me. It's great that you've found something that doesn't seem hollow to you, more power to you. The issue is that one religion works for you does not mean that it will work for everyone and you need, as an individual, to have the respect for others to accept that fact.

 

[hottiedeafboi]

Well, the problem I, God knows your heart and you can fool me, but not God. Bec God knows who really believes and receive Christ in their life and those who believe "about" Christ and not believe "in" Christ. Believe about Christ still hollow, being active in church still hollow, but have Christ "in" you, made the difference. I know you will say here he goes, "quoting" the Bible, is by saying to find another way instead of accept proven fact, about the meat, we still have those, remember Jesus said, " I (Jesus) give you new covenant (agreements or testaments). When Peter lay down on top of his roof and saw the vision from heaven with meat filled on cloth, and Peter told the Lord I refuse to eat those uncleaned, but the Lord said eat it, because all I made are not uncleaned. If you look at Book of Acts. No, christian has no power in Rome, Nero has, and slaughtered many christians and those coliseum where christians been slaughterd by lions and non christians mocked and riducules. And that's the fact.

 

[Teresh]

Believe about Christ still hollow, being active in church still hollow, but have Christ "in" you, made the difference.

That's a matter of belief. You are not the world's meterstick. Not everyone in this world has the same tastes as you do, and not all will experience God the same way you do. Accept that.

I know you will say here he goes, "quoting" the Bible, is by saying to find another way instead of accept proven fact, about the meat, we still have those, remember Jesus said, " I (Jesus) give you new covenant (agreements or testaments). When Peter lay down on top of his roof and saw the vision from heaven with meat filled on cloth, and Peter told the Lord I refuse to eat those uncleaned, but the Lord said eat it, because all I made are not uncleaned.

I'm not a Christian. I don't really care what Yeshua said because I don't believe his religion is canon. I understand that you do. You don't understand that I don't. That is the critical difference between us here. You've already committed the greatest sin of all--claiming to have God-given authority for your actions. What was the first commandment, again? Or do you ignore them too? Oh, right, that's Old Testament, it doesn't apply to us because of the sacrifice of Jesus, right?

No, christian has no power in Rome, Nero has, and slaughtered many christians and those coliseum where christians been slaughterd by lions and non christians mocked and riducules. And that's the fact.

Nero wasn't the only Emporer of Rome. There were quite a few of them. Some persecuted Christians, some persecuted non-Christians.

 

[hottiedeafboi]

I don't want to be so call who win or who lose things. Its not worth it. The other thread prophesied messiah, you see old testament prophisied and new testament fulfilled. I rather have relationship than religion.

 

[hottiedeafboi]

Well, its not my decision to make you become a christian, bec that's not of God, is either No, God, I refuse ur gift, I believe what I want to believe. I don't believe in you, bec they are right and you, God are wrong. God called christians to share the gospel, blessed is he or she who plant seeds and /or water. That's all its matter, but we to have the right to share. But what I see, there is saying christians are wrong than christian said you are wrong.. But as for me, I rather share what I believe, but when things doesn't sound right, then I respond or not only if God leads me to. I have to becareful in proper way.

 

[Rose Immortal]

I actually DO want to read the Jesus Mysteries....
On the other hand, I have argued in the past that cultures "mirroring" others in their sacred stories/mythologies might in fact equate with the Jesus story actually being true or even having some kernals of truth. (even to cynical old atheiests and agnostics like you and me) It really does facinate me that an obscure religion like Christianity ended up being so powerful and having so much influence. When you compare and contrast and strip Christianity down to the bare bones, there's nothing really unique about it. It's a copycat religion!
Who knows? Maybe our true savoir was Mithras, or Dionysus or Osirus!

I don't know if you noticed it, but the first part of your post is the same logic that C.S. Lewis used, which I mentioned in this thread. The interesting thing is, Lewis was a pretty staunch atheist at the time, and as a man of academic credentials he certainly couldn't be accused of stupidity.

 

[Teresh]

I don't want to be so call who win or who lose things. Its not worth it. The other thread prophesied messiah, you see old testament prophisied and new testament fulfilled. I rather have relationship than religion.

That's pretty much Christianity in a nutshell. Not everyone believes that. What about that can you not get into your thick skull?

No, God, I refuse ur gift, I believe what I want to believe.

You're the same. I could say things like you refuse God's providence as provided for in the Tanakh, or I could say that you refuse to seek enlightenment and the way of the Buddha, or I could say that you refuse to submit yourself to the Almighty God as is required by the Qur'an, but notice that I am not.

The difference here is you think you are God and that you have the right to force other people to agree with you.

God called christians to share the gospel, blessed is he or she who plant seeds and /or water.

Indeed. And 2000 years later you've become what you opposed. All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others, eh, Napoleon?

 

[hottiedeafboi]

Well, you can believe what you think I am or whatever you say about christianity. You can contradict and say things wrongly what some christians does. I have seen, by saying, to buddhist believing, oh how interesting, to islam, oh how interesting, hindus oh how interesting and etc, but to christians, you think you are right, oh you think Jesus os the one. Not bec what christians does or did, but looking false on them and blaming that's nothing new how many are doing to the jews in the old testaments and even what the jews did in Jeremiah times when they worshipped many different religions and idols. And God said since you refused to obey me and worship other gods, then so be it, and I will let enemies over take youa dn town will be left ruins and you will be taken away if you survive. Is it God's fault? No, its the jews who refuse to listen. Thinking I refuse God's gift? What is that gift? GRACE. Thru His Son Jesus, many hating Him, and He doesn't deserves death, and would've called thousands of thousands of angels, but refuse. Why? Bec His love toward us. He is the One. Even some other religions quoting Jesus. I met the man who was formerly Islamic, when he was a kid in iran, he saw 2 pictures one is Jesus and other is Koemini(hehhee, couldn't spell his name). But he felt something about Jesus, and something inside of him teling him something , so he does the research and noticed that Jesus is real and he wept and fell on his knees to ask Christ in him. And there's the change in him and told his parents and parents said don't say one word to anybody, bec you will be executed for doing so. And he prayed for guidance and that's how God brought him here and shares the gospel. Some islams converted to becomes christians, and they lost their family and also demand them to come their country, bec its criminals. But U S refuse, bec their protections.

 

[deafdyke]

That changed when Constantine became a Christian and Christianity became the state religion

For some reason I thought that the Emporor who converted was Charlemange.....always get those mixed up!!!!!!!
Reba, what if those religions or beliefs PREDATE Christianity? Egyption beliefs have been dated back for THOUSANDS of THOUSANDS of years!
How do you know that all those simlair stories aren't just little pieces of the whole Universal story?
Rose...... Gee, what a surprise....seeing as CS Lewis is one of my favorite writers...LOVE Chronicals of Narnia!

 

[RedFox]

Satan knew all about the coming Messiah. It's certainly not beyond the realm of possibility that he would encourage "counterfeits" to rise up to lead people astray from the real Messiah, Jesus Christ.

Those "counterfeits" came before Christianity. So they are not counterfeits unless their believers could travel in time.

The Religous Tolerance site has a page on the link between Pagan and Christian beliefs. Their page on Horus and Jesus has a big table of similar things. Horus was even identified as the same being as his father, Osiris, by some people, similar to how Jesus and the Father are identified as parts of the same being.

Horus, Osiris, Dionysus and Mithras were believed in by people hundreds to thousands of years before Christianity started. Saying that Satan knew what the features of Christianity would be and set up similar religions to confuse people is presupposing that Satan is real. This happens because people believe first that their religion is real, no matter what, and look at other things like those other man-gods through the filter that their religion imposes on them. They become biased because they let their religious preconceptions distort their view of reality.

Even Satan came from other religions. Ahriman, aka Angra Mainyu, came from Zoroastrianism was where the concept of an evil Satan came from. Before the captivity in Babylon, Jews believed that Satan was someone working for God to test people's faiths. After that, it started to change to believing that Satan was God's oppentent.

Religions taking beliefs from other religions, becoming amalgrams of those beliefs, are cases of syncretism. Believers saying that it is absolutely false by brushing it off as a trick of Satan, something they give no evidence of in the first place, without serious examination of the ideas makes others see the believers as close minded people who refuse to face the possiblity that their beliefs may be wrong and refuse to correct their ideas to better match what is supported by reality. Being willing to question our beliefs is what led us to find that the Earth is round.