Who are we talking about?

[EagleCherokee63]

Does the following sound familiar?

* He miraculously turns water into wine at a marriage ceremony.


John 2:1-11
1 And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:

2 And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.

3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.

4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.

5 His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do [it].

6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.

7 Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.

8 And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare [it].

9 When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,

10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: [but] thou hast kept the good wine until now.

11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

 

[EagleCherokee63]

Does the following sound familiar?


* He dies at Eastertime as a sacrifice for the sins of the world.

Mattew 28:1-10
1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first [day] of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.

3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:

4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead [men].

5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.

6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.

7 And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.

8 And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word.

9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.

10 Then said Jesus unto them, Be not afraid: go tell my brethren that they go into Galilee, and there shall they see me.

Bible didn't say Easter's Day? Happy Resurrection!

 

[EagleCherokee63]

Does the following sound familiar?

* Was a God made flesh, the saviour and "Son of God".

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

John 1:1-18
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name [was] John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all [men] through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but [was sent] to bear witness of that Light.
9 [That] was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
17 For the law was given by Moses, [but] grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Accord my bible: I copied from my bible and typing here.

John Baptizes Jesus

See the dove coming down on the man's head. The man is Jesus. He is about 30 years old now. And the man with is John. We already learned something about him. Do you remember when Mary went to visit her relative Elizabeth, and the baby inside Elizabeth jumped for joy? That unborn baby was John. But what are John and Jesus doing now?

John has just dipped Jesus into the waters of the Jordan River. This is how a person is baptized. First, he is dipped under water, and then brought up again. Because this is what John does top eople, he is called John the Baptizer. But why has John baptized Jesus?

Well, John did it because Jesus came and asked John to baptize him. John baptizes people who want to show that they are sorry for the bad things they have done. But did Jesus ever do anything bad to be sorry about? No, Jesus never did, because he is God's own Son from heaven. So he asked John to baptize him for a different reason. Let's see what that reason was.

Before Jesus came here to John, he was a carpenter. A carpenter is a person who makes things out of wood, such as tables and chairs and benches. Mary's husband Joseph was a carpenter, and he taught Jesus to be one too. But God did not send his Son to earth to be a carpenter. He has special work for him to do, and the time has come for Jesus to begin doing it. So to show that he has now come to do his Father's will, Jesus asks John to baptize him. Is God pleased with this?

Yes, he is, because, after Jesus comes up from the water, a voice from heaven says: "This is my Son, with whom I am pleased." Also, it seems that hte heavens open up and this dove comes down on Jesus. But it is not a real dove. It only looks like one. It is really God's holy spirit.

Now Jesus has a lot to think about, so he goes away to a lonley place for 40 days. There Satan comes to him. Three times Satan tries to get Jesus to do something against God's laws. But Jesus won't do it.

After that, Jesus returns and meets some men who become his first followers, or disciples. Some of their names are Andrew, Peter (also called Simon), Philip and Nathanael (also called Bartholomew). Jesus and these new disciples leave for the district of Galilee. In Galilee they stop at Nathanaels's hometown of Cana. There Jesus goes to a big wedding feast, and does his first miracle. Do you know what is is? He turns water into wine.

Matthew 3:13-17; 4:1-11; 13:55; Mark 6:3; John 1:29-51; 2:1-12

 

[pek1]

No, I am independent Baptist.

Yeah, while she is independent Baptist, I'm Christian; there is a HUGE difference between the two!!

 

[Throwstones]

Yeah, while she is independent Baptist, I'm Christian; there is a HUGE difference between the two!!

Hey... Independent Baptist is too legalism, strongly critize/judge and bad attitude to people It considers to be "Spiritual abuse" .... I was former member of independent baptist church for 6 years so I decided to quit there and join Southern Baptist Convention church more friendly and warmly heart, understandable! I prefer Southern Baptist church better than Independent baptist.

Throwstones

 

[Cloggy]

John 1:1-18
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

This was the reason that in 1860 (?) oral education was preferred..... God could only be reached via the Word. SO, in order to have the best chance to be saved, you should be able to speak....

Just a sideline.

 

[Reba]

Hey... Independent Baptist is too legalism, strongly critize/judge and bad attitude to people It considers to be "Spiritual abuse" .... I was former member of independent baptist church for 6 years so I decided to quit there and join Southern Baptist Convention church more friendly and warmly heart, understandable! I prefer Southern Baptist church better than Independent baptist.

Throwstones

Independent Baptist churches are individual. Whatever one church does has nothing to do with another church. It is not a denomination. So you can't judge all independent Baptist churches as the same. I know many wonderful ones, and some that are so awful that they should change their names. There is no "law" that establishes who can use the name "independent Baptist" so any church can use that name, no matter what they believe or do.

Our pastor preaches against legalism. He strongly emphasizes friendliness towards others, and encourages us to help others, including financially.

I prefer independent because we vote for our own missionaries to support, our pastors to call, staff we hire, how we spend our money, etc. No one tells our church what to do.

When Hubby was in the Navy, he travelled a lot. If he was in port on a Sunday, he would visit a local Baptist church. One time, he and a shipmate friend visited a church in Florida that had "independent Baptist" in its name. He was shocked! It was nothing like our church. The two of them didn't even stay for the whole service. His shipmate was a member of a Brethren church, and he agreed with Hubby that, whoa, this is NOT a Baptist church!

Sorry, this is :topic: but I wanted to clarify the previous off-topic remarks. I didn't want to get involved in denominational debate but somehow it popped up.

 

[Reba]

This was the reason that in 1860 (?) oral education was preferred..... God could only be reached via the Word. SO, in order to have the best chance to be saved, you should be able to speak....

Just a sideline.

God's Word is in printed text, so people can also be reached thru reading the Bible. They don't need to be "oral". During the 19th century, Deaf people could read and write English. Gallaudet college was chartered in 1864 to confer degrees to Deaf students, so I assume they were literate.

It was at the Milan conference (1880) that deaf education swung over to the oral emphasis.

The early American educators of the Deaf (which included Deaf and hearing instructors) were mostly "religious" Christian people, and the schools with the most success were the ones founded by those people.

At the Milan conference (which included educators of the deaf from many different countries), "All countries except the United States adopted the oral method as the preferred method." (http://members.aol.com/deafcultureinfo/deaf_history1800s.htm)

 

[Cloggy]

The Answer To The Poll

All of the above!

* Was a God made flesh, the saviour and "Son of God".
* His father is God and his mother is a mortal virgin.
* He is born in a cave or humble cowshed on December 25 before three shepards.
* He offers his followers the chance to be born again through the rites of baptism.
* He miraculously turns water into wine at a marriage ceremony.
* He rides triumphantly into town on a donkey while people wave palm leaves to honor him.
* He dies at Eastertime as a sacrifice for the sins of the world.
* After his death he descends to hell, then on the third day he rises from the dead and ascends to heaven in glory.
* His followers await his return as the judge during the Last Days.
* His death and resurrection are celebrated by a ritual meal of bread and wine, which symbolize his body and blood.

The above was believed and practiced from the third centure BCE. Pagan God ("Pagan" is the word used by the 3rd CE literalist christians.) Osiris Dionysus

In Egypt he was called: "Osiris" - whose story can be found in pyramid text from 4500 years ago.
In Greece the God was called "Dionysus". Herodotus, a Greek histrian, travelled to Egypt and found many similarities between Osiris and Dionysis.

In Asia Minor he was called Attis, in Syria: Adonis, in Italy: Bacchus, in Persia: Mithras.

(Source: "The Jesus Mysteries" by Freke & Gandy)

Isn't it wonderfull that these stories have survived for so long!

 

[Throwstones]

Independent Baptist churches are individual. Whatever one church does has nothing to do with another church. It is not a denomination. So you can't judge all independent Baptist churches as the same. I know many wonderful ones, and some that are so awful that they should change their names. There is no "law" that establishes who can use the name "independent Baptist" so any church can use that name, no matter what they believe or do.

Our pastor preaches against legalism. He strongly emphasizes friendliness towards others, and encourages us to help others, including financially.

I prefer independent because we vote for our own missionaries to support, our pastors to call, staff we hire, how we spend our money, etc. No one tells our church what to do.

When Hubby was in the Navy, he travelled a lot. If he was in port on a Sunday, he would visit a local Baptist church. One time, he and a shipmate friend visited a church in Florida that had "independent Baptist" in its name. He was shocked! It was nothing like our church. The two of them didn't even stay for the whole service. His shipmate was a member of a Brethren church, and he agreed with Hubby that, whoa, this is NOT a Baptist church!

Sorry, this is :topic: but I wanted to clarify the previous off-topic remarks. I didn't want to get involved in denominational debate but somehow it popped up.

I graduated from Tennessee Temple University with BRE degree in Mission. That college is Independent Fundy Baptist which is so strict and legalism mostly. That had a deaf ed program there.

 

[deafdyke]

*raises hand* I knew that! A lot of pagan /non Christian God mythology got mixed in with Christianity when it became the state religion.

 

[hootster]

*raises hand* I knew that! A lot of pagan /non Christian God mythology got mixed in with Christianity when it became the state religion.

Exactly.

Unfortunately, people here will just ignore that fact or quote a verse from the bible to prove that we are wrong. lol.

 

[Teresh]

Unfortunately, people here will just ignore that fact or quote a verse from the bible to prove that we are wrong. lol.

The issue isn't what's in the book, so much as the insistence that it needs to be taken 100% literally, a belief depending on the person's intelligence ranges from quite foolish to downright idiotic.

If you ascribe to a religion, its Scripture should be taken seriously, yes, but by no means should it be taken literally.

 

[deafdyke]

and Cloggy what about Krishna? Many Krishnain beleifs are IDENTICAL to Christianity..... I know that it's the current thought that Mithras eventually changed over time to Jesus. Maybe Christanity is more a creole of Mithrasism, and Krishnaism.

 

[Cloggy]

and Cloggy what about Krishna? Many Krishnain beleifs are IDENTICAL to Christianity..... I know that it's the current thought that Mithras eventually changed over time to Jesus. Maybe Christanity is more a creole of Mithrasism, and Krishnaism.

I'm sure they are all connected.

The main thing is that they are stories, myths. Not real occurences.
The idea is to get the thought, not assume that it cannot be anyway else. It stops the thinking.

Christianity in the beginning was an extension of pagans, filosophers. They were thinkers.
This changed when the literalists gained power. After all, it's much easier to let someone else do the thinking for you.
This started to prosecution of pagans and non-literalist christians. And the burning/destroying of many other gospels that were not within the literalist view.

Read "The Jesus Mysteries" and "Jesus and the lost Goddess" when this subject intersts you. It will blow your mind.

 

[deafdyke]

I actually DO want to read the Jesus Mysteries....

The main thing is that they are stories, myths. Not real occurences.

On the other hand, I have argued in the past that cultures "mirroring" others in their sacred stories/mythologies might in fact equate with the Jesus story actually being true or even having some kernals of truth. (even to cynical old atheiests and agnostics like you and me) It really does facinate me that an obscure religion like Christianity ended up being so powerful and having so much influence. When you compare and contrast and strip Christianity down to the bare bones, there's nothing really unique about it. It's a copycat religion!
Who knows? Maybe our true savoir was Mithras, or Dionysus or Osirus!

 

[Cloggy]

I actually DO want to read the Jesus Mysteries....
On the other hand, I have argued in the past that cultures "mirroring" others in their sacred stories/mythologies might in fact equate with the Jesus story actually being true or even having some kernals of truth. (even to cynical old atheiests and agnostics like you and me) It really does facinate me that an obscure religion like Christianity ended up being so powerful and having so much influence. When you compare and contrast and strip Christianity down to the bare bones, there's nothing really unique about it. It's a copycat religion!
Who knows? Maybe our true savoir was Mithras, or Dionysus or Osirus!

All of them since they are between our ears. It's inside yourself you should look.

Regarding successes: It's the literalism that is the main key. Look around you in this world. Literalism is allways connected with politics. When there's room for interpretation and for thinking for yourself, the politics are gone.

So, when Christianity was adopted as a state religion - in order to have more control over the people, it started growing.

 

[Reba]

...It really does facinate me that an obscure religion like Christianity ended up being so powerful and having so much influence. ...

Maybe that happened because Christianity is right.

 

[Reba]

...So, when Christianity was adopted as a state religion - in order to have more control over the people, it started growing.

No, Christianity grew thru persecution. The more the Romans martyred the early Chrisitans, the more the faith spread. The Pilgrims faced persecution in England, so they moved to North America and spread their faith there. The strongest Christians were meeting in secret in communist USSR, and still do in China. Christianity grows stronger thru persecution. It becomes weaker when earthly life becomes too easy for Christians.