When expecting a child, would you want it to be deaf?

Liebling:-))) said:
Honestly, deaf people are also bullied by deaf people at school as well like hearing people! I was being bullied by deaf people, not just hearing... I'm sure that you know that there're hearing people are also being bullies as well.

I find sad that some deaf parents implant their babies with CI and want to change them because of their past...

I know some of hearing members around here... I bet they would say that they are being bullied at school.
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We, hearing or deaf, all know that bullying often happens in school, especially middle school or junior high, because it is when children start recognizing that everyone is different. Most of these bullies come from abusive or unhappy or neglected homes so they gain a sense of power when picking on other kids for many different reasons: color of skin, religion, size, weight, color of hair, freckles, or anything remotely different from others.

Ironically, I found myself being picked on most by DEAF, not hearing. I read somewhere in a book that it is not just in deaf culture but in all minorities or whatnot, there are members picking on other members who do not share same values or norms. For example you see light skinned blacks shunning dark skinned members or ultra-conservative Christians picking on liberal Christians, etc.

I dont remember being bullied by hearing people - I dont dwell on that but I dwell more on these moments of DEAF picking on me. I remember when I started college with a mainstreamed program of over 250 deaf students, some were making fun of my inability to sign or mimicking my speech behind my back. That hurts more because I would think that all Deaf people of ALL different backgrounds would rally together and support each other. Wouldn't you agree with me?
 
Gemtun, thanks for your post, because I feel that I get more insight. I find it easier to comment inside your post/quote if you don't mind.
Gemtun said:
Both my mother and grandmother have deep sorrows for me and my brother being deaf. Not because we are deaf but because they KNEW that we will miss so much out on auditory joys and will never have an easy life.
With us - my wife and me - the motivation is "miss so much out on auditory joys". But not that she would not have an easy life. We allready met people that were deaf and realised that she would be fine being deaf. Honestly, choosing CI was never about making life easy. It was about - like you said - "Not miss out on auditory joys". Not just that, other factors are important as well. Communication with the grand-parents, with our friends etc.
Even my brother is 40 and me 38 now, they are still deeply saddened and will never make peace with it.

I have done my best to convince both of them that I am OK and would not want to change anything about me but they cant see it from my OWN perspective.

I have seen some AD'ers attack Cloggy for her perspectives - we all have to remember that she will NEVER understand our feelings -
I agree, I will never experience deafness. I know what it is to hear, so just closing my ears will not help. Also because I can get it back by opening them. But the reverse is also true. Some, probably most, deaf / hoh people will never understand our feelings, the importance of hearing. How can I explain that. So with this in mind, I can understand that deaf people are fine with not being able to hear.
that we have no problem being deaf or whether our kid is deaf or not because we KNOW. We just have to stop judging others as much as they stop judging us too. What happened to " agree to disagree " ? Didn't we just have a thread on that recently? Yet, I still see people bashing and hurling insults. If every single person would stop being so defensive and realize that Cloggy or any other hearing parent or grandparent will NEVER get it and will always grieve because they know what we are missing.
Grieving is only natural when a loved one cannot experience what you can, but grieving should pass, and understanding should make place. But also imagine how important hearing is for someone when they grieve so long. That means that "hearing" is not just something, it's huge for them.

But we should not let it bother us that we cant seem to convince them that we are okay. We should focus more on embracing the differences and sharing our experiences so they can understand slightly better, not walk away being defensive and angry.
It's OK to try to convince people that you are OK. It's important because I ennjoyed reading this when I started looking into deafness. Remember, most parents, like me, have no clue about deafness, so your input is very important. I realised that my daughter would be perfectly OK being deaf, and we would have no problem communicating with her. Sure it would take effort, but that's fine. It's a fantastic journey.
But that doesn't mean it ends there. The world is bigger than our family of five. There are still options beyond being OK with deafness. We explored them, and then we chose a route for her.
And every day we see that we have taken the right decision. That does NOT mean I do no respect parents that decide differently from us.
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Gemtun said:
We, hearing or deaf, all know that bullying often happens in school, especially middle school or junior high, because it is when children start recognizing that everyone is different. Most of these bullies come from abusive or unhappy or neglected homes so they gain a sense of power when picking on other kids for many different reasons: color of skin, religion, size, weight, color of hair, freckles, or anything remotely different from others.

Ironically, I found myself being picked on most by DEAF, not hearing. I read somewhere in a book that it is not just in deaf culture but in all minorities or whatnot, there are members picking on other members who do not share same values or norms. For example you see light skinned blacks shunning dark skinned members or ultra-conservative Christians picking on liberal Christians, etc.

I dont remember being bullied by hearing people - I dont dwell on that but I dwell more on these moments of DEAF picking on me. I remember when I started college with a mainstreamed program of over 250 deaf students, some were making fun of my inability to sign or mimicking my speech behind my back. That hurts more because I would think that all Deaf people of ALL different backgrounds would rally together and support each other. Wouldn't you agree with me?
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Exactly!!!!!

I was bullied by deafies mostly than hearing... There're few hearings who make fun of me... I still befriend with hearings where I grew up together... I can't see an excuse to blame hearing for bullied deafies... Deafies bullied Deafies... Hearies bullied Hearies.... Hearies bullied Deafies... Deafies bullied Hearies...
 
Liebling:-))) said:
Well, I see different as you.

.......................

Cloggy, I would advise you to not whine your daughter negative over her deafness... Teach her to accept the positive about her deafness with love and attention...
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I'll be driving through Germany on friday.... where can I drop off some roses for you?? :kiss:
 
Liebling:-))) said:
Honestly, deaf people are also bullied by deaf people at school as well like hearing people! I was being bullied by deaf people, not just hearing... I'm sure that you know that there're hearing people are also being bullies as well.

I find sad that some deaf parents implant their babies with CI and want to change them because of their past...

I know some of hearing members around here... I bet they would say that they are being bullied at school.
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I'm sure they are. But like I said in the post before this one - bullies are hunters...predators in a way. They look for someone less fortunate, in ANY way. Hearing people do get picked on - of course - that's because a bully will take it upon him or herself to LOOK for any type of "difference" between them (they're so perfect, right?) and the one they're picking on.

I'm just saying - for ME, it was because I was deaf and my voice was different. So do I want that to be a reason my child goes home crying? NO. Absolutely not. But if it is, then, ya know, that's the way it is, and I accept him or her for the simple fact that he or she is MINE and I love him or her as he or she is. I don't care either way if he or she is deaf, blind, physically disabled, purple, polka-dotted, striped, or otherwise. You know?

That's all Cloggy meant to ask in the beginning.
 
I think that most people took offense at your question, Cloggy, because it implies that we will put a label on our children. We are tired of living with labels. We want to be known as ME! I want people see me and see GEMTUN, not a deaf woman.

I dont care about whether my baby is deaf or not - I will NOT give them labels but look at their NAMES. I see my two daughters and I dont see them being hearing but their names and personalities.

Most deaf people are tired of being looked at in this way - they want to be seen as who they are, not a defining disability.

Dialogue of how I used to feel while growing up:

Mom: Look at my deaf baby!
Me: Mom, look at me as Gemtun!
Mom: Look at my deaf baby! Waahhh
Me: Sighing, cant you see it is me? Dont look at my deafness - look at ME
Mom: Goes off crying and dialing many different doctors and teachers to find a solution to "fix me"
Me: Mom, I am already me! I dont need to be fixed. See me as who I am and I will thrive under your unconditional love. Just give me all tools but don't "fix" me and expect me to conform to your own society. Accept the fact I am me and will not be a member of your society and that it is not a flaw.
Mom: still crying and still dialing
Me: withdraws
 
You nailed it beautifully, Gemtun! That's exactly how I feel toward my hubby's parents... I can't STAND their whines netagive over deafness because of our ears, not us! :ugh:

My parents see me as person, not deafness. I grew up to have no negative feeling over deafness until I married and learn negative from my parents-in-law... I ignored their whines and positive myself, and then whines again over my unborn baby... EAR EAR EAR EAR EAR.... :pissed: I blow my head and told them something what I thought and then storm off after patience with her for f@@king 7 YEARS until I start family.... Now I feel much better... They started to respect us at last...
 
Gemtun said:
I think that most people took offense at your question, Cloggy, because it implies that we will put a label on our children.
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Yeh, I noticed the people feeling offended, but I never put a label there - I feel.
Still, contrary to some of the replies I got, I allway showed respect and I was never rude. Possibly I seemed ignorent, but that can be changed.... just not by rudeness. Respect is a two-way street.

But I feel that I got some very good replies and I am gratefull for that.
 
Cloggy said:
I'll be driving through Germany on friday.... where can I drop off some roses for you?? :kiss:
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:D which part of Germany you will visit on Friday?

I live in southern of Bavaria... closed to switerzland, Rep. Chez, Austria, Italy... than north Germany.
 
Cloggy said:
Yeh, I noticed the people feeling offended, but I never put a label there - I feel.
Still, contrary to some of the replies I got, I allway showed respect and I was never rude. Possibly I seemed ignorent, but that can be changed.... just not by rudeness. Respect is a two-way street.

But I feel that I got some very good replies and I am gratefull for that.
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Yes I know!

I know you doesn't mean to offend them with your questions because I know the difference.
 
Liebling:-))) said:
Yes I know!

I know you doesn't mean to offend them with your questions because I know the difference.
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Exactly, Lieb and I see this as a wonderful opportunity to share & educate. It is not a time to attack or insult because this is a window opportunity to teach from our personal experiences/past to a newcomer to this society. Especially if that newcomer is asking all kinds of questions, whether it is painful or not.

I just wish my mother had AllDeaf forum in early 1970's to learn. I know that she would be vastly changed by all of input provided here.
 
Ha! I was bullied by audist attitude people mostly than d/Deaf and hearing with a great attitude.. I can see audist attitude people bullied at this young gentleman gnulinuxman (hearing who fell in love with ASL and complained about people 's abuse around deafies in his own eyes), Donn (hearing) saw the truth and CSN (d/Deaf blind/ Latened deaf) who have a very strong postivie outlook about d/Deaf people in this society.
 
Sweetmind said:
Ha! I was bullied by audist attitude people mostly than d/Deaf and hearing with a great attitude.. I can see audist attitude people bullied at this young gentleman gnulinuxman (hearing who fell in love with ASL and complained about people 's abuse around deafies in his own eyes), Donn (hearing) saw the truth and CSN (d/Deaf blind/ Latened deaf) who have a very strong postivie outlook about d/Deaf people in this society.
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Sweetmind, you throw the word "audist" around freely and often. You make it sound to be a horrible word.

Exactly, what does an audist mean?????!!!!!! Im asking you because you seem to have developed your own definition of audist so I am all eyes to see what you mean by that.
 
Gemtun said:
Sweetmind, you throw the word "audist" around freely and often. You make it sound to be a horrible word.

Exactly, what does an audist mean?????!!!!!! Im asking you because you seem to have developed your own definition of audist so I am all eyes to see what you mean by that.
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LOL - you may be opening up a can of worms by asking this. I think the definition of an audist would be someone who in any way disagrees with Sweetmind. :)

But from what I understand....audist is meant to be a prejudiced and/or discriminative term that is applied towards folks (hearing OR deaf) that aren't militant about ASL or CI's or (*gasssssp!*) they actually explore options that may benefit them personally, such as speech training, cochlear implants, and so on. :)
 
Malfoyish said:
LOL - you may be opening up a can of worms by asking this. I think the definition of an audist would be someone who in any way disagrees with Sweetmind. :)

QUOTE]

Youre right Malfy - I ve been up since 3 AM so my judgement is out of window and I am provoking the fire on purpose ;) I just wanted to see HER definition!!!! I know she will think of me as an audist :Ohno:
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we all have to remember that she will NEVER understand our feelings - that we have no problem being deaf
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AMEN!!!! Cloggy, we don't see being deaf as something that is negative. You're a male.....you don't sit around wanting to get your Y chromosome deleted or your male genitalia removed b/c you want to be a female. You don't feel "female impaired" do you? We don't feel "hearing impaired" .....we simply are dhh, and we accept that as a state of being that is equal to being hearing.
 
Gemtun said:
Youre right Malfy - I ve been up since 3 AM so my judgement is out of window and I am provoking the fire on purpose ;) I just wanted to see HER definition!!!! I know she will think of me as an audist :Ohno:
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Oooh!!!! *tossing in the logs*

As for her definition, make sure you have plennnnty of time to sort through the undecipherable text in order to obtain something that's in any way intelligent and sensible.
 
Oh and I agree with Malfoyish, Dhh kids almost seem to have an invsiable sign on them, that says "Easy pickings" to bullies...... I was tormented by hearing people as a child b/c of my voice. This isn't just the normal teasing that most everyone goes through......even today I still don't feel like I belong in the hearing world, and I still have issues with my voice and my self esteem.
 
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