What do you agree that Sex-offender parents pose dilemma for schools?

[Hwy99]

He is far too young to be label as offender!! what's more they both are boys, nothing wrong as they are not even a teenager yet.

What about lots of Boarding schools for boys they shared a public shower with a group of boys together.

I used to have an Open shower - 6 showers in a row no walls or curtains for privacy, PE teacher watching us all in naked - open view and make sure we are ok in the shower. We also take our bathers off and changed to school uniforms - all in one room. no lock up changing room door/walls for privacy!! It keep repeat daily when I was 11 until 16 with my classmates, according to their age groups as it is. Its is the same with deaf boys' shower in other side of school building too.

We would paranoid if this PE teacher happen to be a Man, but we don't mind as long as she is a female.

Exactly!!! When I was little, everytime when I go to swimming practice, before that, I have to shower with other naked boys too without walls, teacher/staffs, even women too have to watch us. We didn't feel bothered by that, and I have seen like that when I was high school. I was accused as stalker when I was 12 just because my gf want to see me... Oh dear... I guess people taking things SO serious and make it so harder!

 

[Reba]

Thank you Reba, I would appreciate that. I am having a very hard time getting anything done in his case.

I think there was a like a total of 3 times we went to court with no interpreter. We went to court about 8-10 times over this case. So 3 times there was no interpreter while at other times there was. I just hope that they wont be able to use those other times against me in getting a new trial.

From RID VIEWS, Nov. 2007:

"State and Local Courts"
[original source was State and Local Courts - National Association of the Deaf, Sept. 24, 2007]

The material was prepared by NAD Law and Advocacy Center as informal guidance; it is not legal advice.

For additional information or technical assistance about how laws against disability discrimination apply, contact NAD Law and Advocacy Center, 301-587-7730 Voice/TTY, Home - National Association of the Deaf or an enforcement agency (see list at ADA Home Page - ada.gov - Information and Technical Assistance on the Americans with Disabilities Act or call 800-514-0383 TTY).

The ADA protects all persons participating in court activities, including litigants, witnesses, jurors, spectators, and attorneys. It applies to any type of court proceeding in any type of state of local court including civil, criminal, traffic, small claims, domestic relations, juvenile, and other specialized courts....This law also protects deaf or hard of hearing parents of minor children who are involved in court proceedings. Parents of a minor who is the subject of a juvenile proceeding are clearly "participants in the proceeding even though the parents are not parties or witnesses. They are entitled to auxiliary aids and service, such as qualified interpreter services, during the proceeding...

Also, the court cannot charge the Deaf person for interpreter costs:

A public entity may not place a surcharge on a particular individual with a disability . . . to cover the costs of measures, such as the provision of auxiliary aids or program accessibility, that are required to provide that individual . . . with the nondiscriminatory treatment required by the Act or this part 28 C.F.R. Section 35.130(f) . . . The Department [of Justice] has already recognized that imposition of the cost of courtroom interpreter services is impermissible under section 504 [of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973.] . . . (45 Red. Reg. 37630, June 3, 1980). Accordingly, recouping the costs of interpreter services by assessing them as part of courts costs would also be prohibited.
56 Fed. Reg. 3570-06 (July 21, 1991). Therefore, states may not enforce laws which permit qualified sign language interpreter fees to be assessed as "costs."

 

[Bear]

From RID VIEWS, Nov. 2007:

"State and Local Courts"
[original source was State and Local Courts - National Association of the Deaf, Sept. 24, 2007]

The material was prepared by NAD Law and Advocacy Center as informal guidance; it is not legal advice.

For additional information or technical assistance about how laws against disability discrimination apply, contact NAD Law and Advocacy Center, 301-587-7730 Voice/TTY, Home - National Association of the Deaf or an enforcement agency (see list at ADA Home Page - ada.gov - Information and Technical Assistance on the Americans with Disabilities Act or call 800-514-0383 TTY).



Also, the court cannot charge the Deaf person for interpreter costs:

Thanks for that info Reba, I will see if it is still possible to get something done about that as it has been 4 years now. This is definitely good info to have.

 

[Bear]

He is far too young to be label as offender!! what's more they both are boys, nothing wrong as they are not even a teenager yet.

What about lots of Boarding schools for boys they shared a public shower with a group of boys together.

I used to have an Open shower - 6 showers in a row no walls or curtains for privacy, PE teacher watching us all in naked - open view and make sure we are ok in the shower. We also take our bathers off and changed to school uniforms - all in one room. no lock up changing room door/walls for privacy!! It keep repeat daily when I was 11 until 16 with my classmates, according to their age groups as it is. Its is the same with deaf boys' shower in other side of school building too.

We would paranoid if this PE teacher happen to be a Man, but we don't mind as long as she is a female.

Yes, I agree he was too young to be labeled as a sex offender. But that is what happened. I have the court papers here to prove it! Sad huh?

Now you can see why, I say the sex offender registry and label has many shades of gray. It is not all cut and dried.

It's not like I'm saying I want someone who was a pedophile near my children, but at the same time, not all sex offenders are pedophiles or rapists.

 

[Bear]

ABC News: Stossel: Sexual Abuse or Kids' Horseplay? this just goes to show how haywire our system has become.

 

[Reba]

Thanks for that info Reba, I will see if it is still possible to get something done about that as it has been 4 years now. This is definitely good info to have.

Yes, keep that info even if you can't get the original decision overturned. If you get a chance to go back to court you want to have an interpreter there.

You know, in the recent past, some felons (even on death row) have been able to get celebrities to support their appeals. If guilty multi-murderers can get rich celebrities to help them, it seems like you deserve at least as much of a chance. I don't know how a person goes about getting that kind of help. Of course, the downside to that kind of help is that so much publicity would be involved, and you probably don't want that for your family.

 

[Reba]

ABC News: Stossel: Sexual Abuse or Kids' Horseplay? this just goes to show how haywire our system has become.

Do you think this contact from that link might be helpful to you?

Ella Baker Center

 

[jillio]

There were several times when I was given the excuse that a interpreter was not available. And that they couldnt locate one. I did call the ADA lawyers in Ohio and I did also call the civil rights lawyers in Ohio about this.

The first thing they asked me was were you the defendant in the case? I said no. They asked who was and when I said my son, they told me that unless I was the defendant the court is not required to supply an interpreter for me. Believe that? Ughh!

Please consult with the NAD on this, Bear. You are your son's legal guardian, and are entitled to know what is going on. It is illegal to question a child without parental permission, as well. The NAD has a legal staff, and they are very good about answering emails. You might also want to contact the ACLU, as I believe they have a division that deals with civil rights violation in regard to juveniles. Did your son have an advocate when he went to court? I am so sorry to hear about this tradgedy!

 

[Bear]

Do you think this contact from that link might be helpful to you?

Ella Baker Center

Reba thanks for that link, I never noticed it when reading the article, they just might be able to help me. I am gonna contact them first thing Monday morning. Can't do it today as today is visiting day with my son! Gotta drive 3 hours just to see him for 2 hours, then 3 hours home.

I get 2 visits with him a month.

4 hours is enough to maintain a family contact? Basically, my son and I are virtually strangers to each other anymore.

I feel so sad when I realize I basically know nothing that goes on in his life anymore. Hell, I dont even his clothes sizes anymore. My son grew up from a preteen into almost a man and I didnt really see half of it.

I know each time I get to see him, I feel like what happened to the little boy they took? Who is this teenager standing in front of me?

I don't think it is right for any parent to have to face that. I realize they are trying to punish the kids, but at what cost to the family unit?

They say he may be out in about 5 more months, if he is, I often wonder what kind of relationship we will have. Will he respect me as his authority figure now? Will he respect me as his mother? How are we to become a family unit again? Even though we keep regular contact through mail and those visits and one phone call a month. We still know nothing about each other today.

I find this sad and heartbreaking that the system does this to the families.

Sure the juveniles need punishment, but do the families deserve the punishment along with the children?

 

[Bear]

Please consult with the NAD on this, Bear. You are your son's legal guardian, and are entitled to know what is going on. It is illegal to question a child without parental permission, as well. The NAD has a legal staff, and they are very good about answering emails. You might also want to contact the ACLU, as I believe they have a division that deals with civil rights violation in regard to juveniles. Did your son have an advocate when he went to court? I am so sorry to hear about this tradgedy!

I asked if it was illegal to question a child without parental permission and was told no it is very legal because supposedly a cop did not question my son, but a CPS worker did.

As I understand it, the law is legally allowing CPS workers to speak with children without parental permission. This law was originally set up to protect children in abusive situations at home. It was not originally intended to give CPS free reign over criminal investigations too. Until the law is re-written these people will continue to take advantage of that loophole in the law and continue to do as they wish.

This is why I am advocating to bring about change within the juvenile justice system. There are many issues that need to be addressed that are outdated from when our juvenile justice system was set up *I believe it was set up 180 years ago*. Laws have not really changed much within the juvenile justice system since they were orignally set up. They are extremely outdated and do not recognize the times that these laws are being applied to.

When the laws regarding rape was set up, those children were of a more innocent time. Back then kids did not know as much as they do today. back then, there was no Jerry Springer, there was no open sexuality, and couples back then kept the affection for each other behind closed bedroom doors.

That is when those laws were set up and that is what they are reflecting.

As for the NAD and ACLU, I will try contacting them too. Nothing at this point can really hurt to try.

 

[jillio]

I asked if it was illegal to question a child without parental permission and was told no it is very legal because supposedly a cop did not question my son, but a CPS worker did.

As I understand it, the law is legally allowing CPS workers to speak with children without parental permission. This law was originally set up to protect children in abusive situations at home. It was not originally intended to give CPS free reign over criminal investigations too. Until the law is re-written these people will continue to take advantage of that loophole in the law and continue to do as they wish.

This is why I am advocating to bring about change within the juvenile justice system. There are many issues that need to be addressed that are outdated from when our juvenile justice system was set up *I believe it was set up 180 years ago*. Laws have not really changed much within the juvenile justice system since they were orignally set up. They are extremely outdated and do not recognize the times that these laws are being applied to.

When the laws regarding rape was set up, those children were of a more innocent time. Back then kids did not know as much as they do today. back then, there was no Jerry Springer, there was no open sexuality, and couples back then kept the affection for each other behind closed bedroom doors.

That is when those laws were set up and that is what they are reflecting.

As for the NAD and ACLU, I will try contacting them too. Nothing at this point can really hurt to try.

Evidently, they are using a loophole in the law to put your son in a position of incriminating himself. That is why I asked if your son had an advocate when he went to court. You are correct, the questioning of a child by a CPS worker was a law put into place to protect chidlren in dangerous situations, not to question them regarding their own criminal liability. If a police officer was present during that questioning, and used that information in court to obtain a conviction against your son, your son's due process rights have been violated. Not to mention, there were some serious ethical violations in the process. I would have liked to be a fly on the wall during that questioning, as I am almost certain from your description of the situation that they used their position of authority to first intimidate your child, and then to lead him into making those statements they were looking for. This situation makes me both angry at those officials, and the harm they are creating in the name of protection, and breaks my heart for what you and your son are enduring as a result. I wish I could be of more assistance at this point. If there is anything I can do to advise, or to help, I am more than willing to do so. And, if you would like to discuss any ofthis in more detail, I am always available through PM.

I will keep you in my thoughts, and will also be on the lookout for any souces that could be of help to you.

 

[Reba]

Even if the law was created to protect an abused child, it seems that there still should have been a guardian ad litem present to protect the rights of the child.

 

[Bear]

The only thing available at the other woman's house was the cops and childrens services. In court we had the CPS worker that was my son's social worker.

As they put my son in foster care. And his own lawyer. That was it.

This whole case sucked, it seems all they were interested in doing is criminalizing our youth today.

By the way here is my son's case, he has given me permission to post it, in hopes of garnering more support to change these outrageous laws.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

It´s very sad to read your posts, Bear. It´s good to see ADers to try their best to help you... I can tell from your posts that ít´s hard since your son is under CPS´s care. They can do what they want with him until he is 18 years old which is not right.

Don´t give up and keep on and on... then your son will know that you fighting for him and his future. Keep update with your posts here until you will find positive information.... Good Luck

 

[Bear]

4 years ago my son was convicted of rape here in Ohio. My son is still in the Correctional Facility, if this helps at all.

I want to share the full story with you and to do so involves alot of players so I will start out by giving you all the players in the story. Not real names. To protect indentiies but they will relate as if they were the real names.

Bob- the boy my son was accused of raping he would be age 10 at the time.

Belinda- Bob's mother

Courtney-mother of Belinda and Bob's grandmother and also grandmother of Dora.

Gretchen- mother of Dora and living with me, also a childhood friend.

Dora- granddaughter of Courtney and daughter of Gretchen living with me. Also niece of Belinda. Also gets an SSI check. And was also brought up in the case. She was also 12 at the time. But a little older than my son.

Denny- Dora's brother and lives with Courtney. Gets an SSI check as well

Mick- my son's grandfather on his dad's side and married to Courtney.

Gabe- my son and grandson of Mick's

Those are your players in this story. Again *not their real names*. Hopefully you followed the *family* connections here.

One day 4 years ago my son goes over to Belinda's house to play with her older son Jeb, who is Bob's brother. The cops were called by Courtney to the house. Courtney was not in the house when she called them, she was home about 15 miles away if that has any bearing.

The cops arrive at Belinda's house along with Children's Services at 4:00 Pm. They were questioning the kids, * I found this out later* and also talking to Belinda.

At 4:30 PM , my son Gabe, was taken to the police station, at this time I was called to come to the police station and notified that my son was being charged with rape.

Until 4:30 PM I had no idea that my son was even in trouble. So, I arrive at the police station to see Belinda in a room with her son Bob talking to some guy. I later find out he was a juvenile court administrator AND supposedly a CPS investigator. *Not to mention that this guy also works as a commissioner too*.

Upon arriving at the police station I ask to see my son Gabe, I was told no, not right now. They ask if they can talk to my son Gabe, I said no I want a lawyer for him. So, they come out of the room where my son Gabe was being held.

Then they proceed to ask me about my son and what he was like at home and if he had had any other previous sexual history. I said not that I know of. I've never had him in trouble for something other than fighting. They proceed to tell me that he was being accused of raping Bob and Dora.

I said oh no, Dora has been molested before by someone her mother knew. And that man is in jail now for molesting Dora and her brother and other kids. Dora, does know what sex is and she is very slow. She doesnt fully understand what is going on here and you are just upsetting her. I want a psychologist here talking to these kids. Needless to say, I never did get a psychologist there.

I said ok, I would like you to check into Bob's past as well. I know for a fact that he has been accused of molesting 4 other little girls. Their response to me was, this is not about Bob this is about your son Gabe.

I asked them at this time, can I take Gabe home? They said no, he will be going to an emergency foster home placement overnight. You will go to court tomorrow morning. I said ok, can I please see my son Gabe before you take him? They let me, but I had to have a cop in the room with us. Upon seeing my son Gabe, I saw that he was terrified and crying and asked me Mom will you take me home? I said I cant hon, you will have to go somewhere else for the night at least.

The next day comes and we meet with his lawyer, and his lawyer said for now lets plead not guilty. I said ok, will my son be allowed to come home then? He said I doubt it as he is being charged with raping both Bob and Dora. And Dora lives with you. I said ok.

We go into court and they said they needed to find a foster home with no children willing to take my son. So he was placed in Juvie hall for 2 weeks till the next court date. I am a deaf parent, so I asked for an interpreter for future court hearings and they said ok. I also asked to obtain my own court appointed lawyer. They agreed to that as well. My son had the public defender for his lawyer.

At this time, I was and still do not have enough money to hire my own and his own lawyers. So we had to go with court appointed.

Well during this two weeks, we *my son and I* met with our lawyers. I asked them what is the evidence against my son? They said we have Bob's statement and his mother Belinda's statement backing him up on his story, this is on video. We also have a statement from your son Gabe that he admitted to doing this. I said whoa, where did they get that statement at? When I went to the police station, I asked for a lawyer for him and they immediately came out of the room and never did question him there or call for a lawyer. They said he made a statement at Belinda's house.

I then asked the lawyer about Dora, and they said that was dropped due to the fact that Dora is not believeable.

I said ok. What about a rape kit? Was there one done? They said no, that they did not do rape kits in juvenile cases and do NOT need one to convict. I said ok, let me see this video of the statements made by Bob and his mother. They show a video of Bob and Belinda sitting in a room being questioned together. I said whoa, your saying you have a case because Belinda backs up Bob's story? How could she not? When she is sitting in the SAME room with him hearing everything he says?

I then ask them, is it legal for them to question my son at Belinda's house without my knowledge and my being there at his age? My son was 12 at the time. They said yes, as a police officer did not question him, but the CPS investigator did *who was also a juvenile court administrator?*

I said ok, I wanna go to trial. The lawyers for us said, why the prosecutors have a solid case? You would lose.

I said why? Because as I have stated at the police station, Bob has a past. He has been accused of molesting 4 yes FOUR other little girls. Whereas my son has no past history of sexual crimes at all.

Our lawyers told me, that we COULD NOT bring that up at trial.

I said why? Our lawyers said, that is not admissable in juvenile court.

I told them at this time, that I knew the only reason why this is happening, is because Courtney wants custody of Dora and cannot prove me unfit. And this is her way of getting around that now.

They said you cant prove that. And even if she did file custody, it would have no bearing on this case.

I said ok what can we do? They said your best bet was to plead guilty and get it over with. So we did. And 4 years later, my son is sitting in a correctional facility still.

Well about a year after they took my son and all this was done, I was at my son's aunt's house to visit her and Jeb and Bob were there. Jeb comes up to me and says right out of the blue. Kris, *not my real name* when they said Gabe was in the closet with Bob, that isnt true. Gabe was in the bathroom on the phone talking to some girl. Gabe was never anywhere near Bob.

I called our lawyers immediately and informed them of what Jeb said. I told them you need to question Jeb away from his mother. The lawyers said, it wont matter, it is all hearsay.

Ok, now on the court papers, here is what the crime is said to be.

Gabe and Bob were in the closet. Both of them had their pants down. Gabe was behind Bob. There was no penetration.

Wait a minute! How can it be rape with no penetration? I asked that and never did get a straight answer.

Bob, is currently living at home with his mother still. Even though I reported Bob's past, nothing was ever done to help that child with counseling or anything.

My son is still in the correctional facility 4 years later. Gabe is now 16 and hoping to be home soon.

Also, forgot to mention the same day the cops were called on my son, we later found this out, that Courtney files for custody of Dora. On the very same day! I asked the lawyers about how that just proves me right, and they said it had no bearing on this case.

Dora and her mother moved out within days of this happening and moved in with Gretchen's mother. So when Courtney found out she was living with Gretchen's mother, she pulled the custody papers and stopped trying for custody.




Now, I want you to remember that when my son *admitted* to this crime, he was at Belinda's house being questioned by either CPS or the cops or both, without his mother there or a lawyer there to protect him.

Also, with Dora it was later proven that she and Gabe had no sexual contact whatsoever. This was another allegation made by Courtney. And through Dora's counselor, her mother and I both found out that Gabe had never touched her.

After my son was taken, he was required to go through sex offender couseling, and as required by that counseling he has had to take a lie detector test, which proved he is innocent. But unfortunately that lie detector is inadmissable in court.

So there is the story, you be the judge.

 

[Bear]

It´s very sad to read your posts, Bear. It´s good to see ADers to try their best to help you... I can tell from your posts that ít´s hard since your son is under CPS´s care. They can do what they want with him until he is 18 years old which is not right.

Don´t give up and keep on and on... then your son will know that you fighting for him and his future. Keep update with your posts here until you will find positive information.... Good Luck

Thanks Liebling. I feel sad whenever I think of what is going on. There were many of times when I just felt like I couldnt go on.

Well the good thing is he is no longer under CPS, but he is now in DYS under the state, the bad thing is it can be till he is 21 not 18 hon. I agree it's not right and I am doing what i can to not only fight for him, but to get these beastly laws changed so no other child has to go through this.

Thanks, and I am gonna keep posting here and getting info out to garner the support needed to change these laws.

 

[jillio]

Thanks Liebling. I feel sad whenever I think of what is going on. There were many of times when I just felt like I couldnt go on.

Well the good thing is he is no longer under CPS, but he is now in DYS under the state, the bad thing is it can be till he is 21 not 18 hon. I agree it's not right and I am doing what i can to not only fight for him, but to get these beastly laws changed so no other child has to go through this.

Thanks, and I am gonna keep posting here and getting info out to garner the support needed to change these laws.

OMG! There have been so many wrongs done in this case. The lawyers handling your son's case should be disbarred. Your rights have been violated, and your son's rights have been violated. And to say that they don't do rape kits on children is absolutely ridiculas. I have a friend that works with sexually abused chidlren,and the first thing they do is a rape kit to determine that sexual contact has occurred. I'm going to make a few phone calls and get you some more sources for assistance, Bear. Not only has so much wrong been committed here, this has created a situation for your son that is going to take well into his future for him to work through. I am so furious after reading your post that I can't think straight. I'll be speaking with someone at the Child Protection and Advocacy Center that deals with sexual abuse, and see if they can direct you tosomeone that can start to help you put your life and your son's life back together. I'll PM you when I get the info for you.

 

[VanG]

This is tragic! Now, I know your son is on hard road and suffer something that he didn't do. (sigh) You know what. Time for me to rant.

There is something I will never and never understand why there are some girls in age group from 5 to 12 years old, wearing underwear and blouse enough that you can see through the body then spread the legs apart with underwear on it then *click* to take picture to sell the pictures on internet. VanI got email from her friend and my computer blocked the pictures. VanI asked me to get permission to let picture access. I was thinking why? So I typed the password and my jaw dropped so is my daughter. We all witnessed what girls doing in picture and doing like with clothes on it. (one is 10 years old female with one is 7 years old boy with topless and speedo)

VanI and I both were grossed away with pictures. She told me that some of boy hooted at some girls at school even her too. She told the boys to get lost. One of girl asked her why she did that. She said that since she grew up in family where we all open talk about world and respect the body of our and other. She had been seeing all since she were baby. I taught her to respect all of people's body that God had made. If anyone who try to show her the private part is immature or is trying to do stupid. VanI said that boy were trying to show her his part. She told him that it is okay she doesn't need to see it because she already know what boy's part look like. She told him to get lost and embarrassed him in front of his friend.

That picture will never depart from me and VanI. Anyone have any idea to destroy the image out of my brain? suggestion is wanting!

So I don't understand the world and people with their mind in twist way looking at children as sex toy. Tsk Tsk Tsk. This is wrong. We all look at children as our precious gifts.

Bear, don't give up and your son is my prayer as I hope that he is seeing the light in end of tunnel as his life will get better.

 

[Bear]

OMG! There have been so many wrongs done in this case. The lawyers handling your son's case should be disbarred. Your rights have been violated, and your son's rights have been violated. And to say that they don't do rape kits on children is absolutely ridiculas. I have a friend that works with sexually abused chidlren,and the first thing they do is a rape kit to determine that sexual contact has occurred. I'm going to make a few phone calls and get you some more sources for assistance, Bear. Not only has so much wrong been committed here, this has created a situation for your son that is going to take well into his future for him to work through. I am so furious after reading your post that I can't think straight. I'll be speaking with someone at the Child Protection and Advocacy Center that deals with sexual abuse, and see if they can direct you tosomeone that can start to help you put your life and your son's life back together. I'll PM you when I get the info for you.

That would be nice Jillio, cause for 4 years, my son and I have done nothing but run up against brick walls. Even a lawyer forum that I posted this too, says everything was done legally. I know it may be hard to accept, but I figured if my lawyer says it, my son's lawyer says it, then some stranger on a forum says it then it must be true that it was all legal.

I am having my friend look up the code law that we found about rape kits in Ohio.

But definitely if you can find anything, it would be a big help. Unfortunately, I dont have money to pay for a lawyer, I have been looking for one that would take this case on pro-bono. Or would do both a civil and criminal case.

I have never really given up hope that not only would my son be free, but that I could sue the daylights out of everyone involved in this case to have a better future for my son, who's life they ruined.

 

[Bear]

This is tragic! Now, I know your son is on hard road and suffer something that he didn't do. (sigh) You know what. Time for me to rant.

There is something I will never and never understand why there are some girls in age group from 5 to 12 years old, wearing underwear and blouse enough that you can see through the body then spread the legs apart with underwear on it then *click* to take picture to sell the pictures on internet. VanI got email from her friend and my computer blocked the pictures. VanI asked me to get permission to let picture access. I was thinking why? So I typed the password and my jaw dropped so is my daughter. We all witnessed what girls doing in picture and doing like with clothes on it. (one is 10 years old female with one is 7 years old boy with topless and speedo)

VanI and I both were grossed away with pictures. She told me that some of boy hooted at some girls at school even her too. She told the boys to get lost. One of girl asked her why she did that. She said that since she grew up in family where we all open talk about world and respect the body of our and other. She had been seeing all since she were baby. I taught her to respect all of people's body that God had made. If anyone who try to show her the private part is immature or is trying to do stupid. VanI said that boy were trying to show her his part. She told him that it is okay she doesn't need to see it because she already know what boy's part look like. She told him to get lost and embarrassed him in front of his friend.

That picture will never depart from me and VanI. Anyone have any idea to destroy the image out of my brain? suggestion is wanting!

So I don't understand the world and people with their mind in twist way looking at children as sex toy. Tsk Tsk Tsk. This is wrong. We all look at children as our precious gifts.

Bear, don't give up and your son is my prayer as I hope that he is seeing the light in end of tunnel as his life will get better.

That is sick Van and off topic here I love your pug!!! I have 4 of them all fawns like yours. I am a pug breeder in Ohio. They are simply the cutest little dogs arent they?