The Death Penalty

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Don't jump to the conclusion, I was only listing the posts of what been said on another page.

Obviously in reply to my request that it be shown where it had been claimed that the death penalty increased crime. Why else would you collect all of those posts making the statement that it does not reduce crime?
 
Are you high?
not really. You have repeatedly failed to prove to me that criminals have been wrongfully-executed many many times. Look back and I believe I've sufficiently proved my case. You haven't done it ONCE. All you did are obfuscating and asking me to prove it when I already proved it several times. You almost tricked me into thinking you're Hillary Clinton!!!

I already have. And what you meant to say was that it was ambiguously worded.
Oh no no. I meant to say it was unambiguously worded. You chose to say it is ambiguously worded. We can run around the tree till we drop. The only way to know for sure is to ask Judge Scalia for clarification. But it is obvious he is not against death penalty.
 
Obviously in reply to my request that it be shown where it had been claimed that the death penalty increased crime. Why else would you collect all of those posts making the statement that it does not reduce crime?

Oh by the way - I already showed that death penalty does reduce murders. See my previous post
 
It's female fault for take apple and offer to her boyfriend. It make all male become evil. It lead male create the law and give death punishment for many thousand years.

:jaw: This is too rich for me!
 
not really. You have repeatedly failed to prove to me that criminals have been wrongfully-executed many many times. Look back and I believe I've sufficiently proved my case. You haven't done it ONCE. All you did are obfuscating and asking me to prove it when I already proved it several times. You almost tricked me into thinking you're Hillary Clinton!!!

You must be high. You haven't proven anything. Until you pull DNA evidence on every executed criminal and run DNA on crime scene samples, you cannot prove that no innocent people have been executed. All you can do is assume. DNA evidence has overturned the sentence of men that have been in prison for as long as 26 years, proving that they were indeed innocent of the crime for which they have been convicted. Until you do that for the executed, you cannot prove shyte.


Oh no no. I meant to say it was unambiguously worded. You chose to say it is ambiguously worded. We can run around the tree till we drop. The only way to know for sure is to ask Judge Scalia for clarification. But it is obvious he is not against death penalty.


If you need clarification, it was ambiguously worded. Duh!

Started reading those academic sources I supplied citations for yet?
 
not really. You have repeatedly failed to prove to me that criminals have been wrongfully-executed many many times. Look back and I believe I've sufficiently proved my case. You haven't done it ONCE. All you did are obfuscating and asking me to prove it when I already proved it several times. You almost tricked me into thinking you're Hillary Clinton!!!


Oh no no. I meant to say it was unambiguously worded. You chose to say it is ambiguously worded. We can run around the tree till we drop. The only way to know for sure is to ask Judge Scalia for clarification. But it is obvious he is not against death penalty.

Show me, please where I ever claimed that an innocent person had been executed? You really need to read more carefully. I said, there was the risk of executing an innocent person because of errors that occur in the justice system. Likewise, as I have explained, you cannot prove that there have not been innocent persons executed.
 
If you need clarification, it was ambiguously worded. Duh!
really? interesting..... google Judge Scalia and you'll see that he is staunch pro-death penalty. He even want to executed mentally-retarded criminal. Now that's not good but... yea that's his view. so I'm pretty sure it is unambiguously worded. :o

Started reading those academic sources I supplied citations for yet?
nope! I think it's fair for you to argue your position with some excerpts from it like I did. That'll save my time. I have 4 final exams in a week (one tomorrow - that's spatial data analysis course) :(

Show me, please where I ever claimed that an innocent person had been executed? You really need to read more carefully. I said, there was the risk of executing an innocent person because of errors that occur in the justice system. Likewise, as I have explained, you cannot prove that there have not been innocent persons executed.
I merely proved to you to quell your concern that innocent people would be executed. Yes risk but so far... 0 wrongfully-executed since 1900. "Bedau-Radelet Study - the most thorough and painstaking analysis ever on the subject - fails to prove that a single such mistake has occurred in the United States during the twentieth century. There is, in fact, no proof that an innocent has been executed since 1900."

Can you prove it to me that I'm wrong?
 
really? interesting..... google Judge Scalia and you'll see that he is staunch pro-death penalty. He even want to executed mentally-retarded criminal. Now that's not good but... yea that's his view. so I'm pretty sure it is unambiguously worded. :o


nope! I think it's fair for you to argue your position with some excerpts from it like I did. That'll save my time. I have 4 final exams in a week (one tomorrow - that's spatial data analysis course) :(


I merely proved to you to quell your concern that innocent people would be executed. Yes risk but so far... 0 wrongfully-executed since 1900. "Bedau-Radelet Study - the most thorough and painstaking analysis ever on the subject - fails to prove that a single such mistake has occurred in the United States during the twentieth century. There is, in fact, no proof that an innocent has been executed since 1900."

Can you prove it to me that I'm wrong?


Yes, and have already done so. You cannot be absolutely certain that everyone put to death in the justice system has been guilty of the crime for which they died UNLESS YOU RUN DNA FROM THE CRIME SCENE. Since that has not been done, and they have failed to exhume any executed individual in order to ascertain this, then you DO NOT KNOW FOR CERTAIN that each person put to death was unequivocally guilty. And given the people who have been released from lengthy prison sentences in the lighjt of new DNA evidence proving their innocence and wrongful conviction, it is quite evident that our criminal justice system makes grave errors. If we have made such errors in non-death penalty cases, resulting in people being incarcerated for 26 or more years wrongfully, then the chances are great that at some point over the last 108 years that you have cited, at least one innocent person has been put to death that could have been exonerated by additional evidence. To believe that the possiblity is not real is to be nothing more than naive. To refuse to believe it in light of the facts of recent exonerations and errors that have come to light is to choose to remain ignorant. The fact of the matter is, our criminal justice system is capable or error, and therefore, there is always the risk of executing an innocent person any time the death penalty is resorted to as a form of punishment. No amount of naivete can get rid of that risk. It is ever present, because it is inherehnt in a system that is subject to error.

Evidently, you have a very lax criteria for what you consider to be "proof". You continue to claim proof when you haven't even managed to support well, let alone "prove" anything. If you are capable of making such errors,and use such a lax crierion for deciding that which is proof of fact, then God help anyone on whose jury you should serve. Your inability to see the holes in your own logic is simply more evidence of the flaws within our justice system as juries are made of individuals such as yourself. To think that a man's life could rest with someone who cannot even adequately define proof is frightening indeed, and does nothing but support my position that errors are made on a daily basis, and the risk of an error being made in a death penalty case is ever present.

BTW, started on those articles that you demanded yet?

Now who wants their homework done for them? If you had kept up with your studies all along, you wouldn't need to cram at the last minute in order to pass a final exam. You get no sympathy from me on that one. I work 2 jobs, am in the middle of a dissertation, and teach 2 classes. I managed to look the articles up and provide you with formated citations. All you have to do is go to the library and read them. I've already made it easier for you than I would make it for one of my students. Show some responsibility for your own education.
 
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USA Population: 304 million
Germany Population: 82 million

(population of more than 100,000)
# of cities in USA: 251
# of cities in Germany: 82

(population of more than 8 million)
# of Major Cities in USA : 8
# of Major Cities in Germany: 4

(0.00 means perfectly homogeneous country and 1 is perfectly heterogeneous)
Diversity Index of USA Population: 0.49
Diversity Index of Germany Population: 0.15
(cannot find official data but according to CIA World Factbook, Germany is 91.5% germans and 8.5% foreigners so it's based on my rough calculation with Gibbs & Martin's index of diversity formula

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HMMMMM....... I see...... I see..... now that explains why USA have more crimes than Germany.... apple and orange.... makes me wonder if you ever seen a group of at least 10 black people at any time in Germany.

common sense? sorry friend, no I use facts and numbers. common sense plays a funny trick on us. numbers don't lie. You know what's funny? My friends in Korea and other country were afraid to visit NYC. why? because they said - "ooohhh so many black people! lot of mafia! many murders!!" so funny..... :giggle:


I can see that you only calcalate % population between America and Germany, not calcalate % crime rate per population.

There´re many high and low population in the world... but you need to calcalate how many % crime rate per capita per population they have, to compare America with Germany or other countries...

Do your homework :cool2:

Really, interesting to know that your Korean friends thought negative about NYC but we Europeans thought positive about NYC. I would love to visit NYC... :dunno2:




 
and I also choose to not take your concern seriously unless you did have child who is a serial killer/rapist. It shows your misplaced sympathy toward to murderous criminals who will kill you and me for no reason - maybe just cuz we look at him funny.

*shake my head quietly*

What KarissaMann05 said after your post is correct.


 
Oh is there a class to learn how to be a parent? Just because Leibling or anybody who delivered a baby automatically makes her qualified of knowledge and expertise? I can show you other moms who have completely opposite view of Leibling's. so let's just leave at that....

*raise my hand* Do you mean that other moms´s opinoin is the same as yours? If yes, then please tell me or any sources to support your claim. The reason I am asking because it´s hard to beleive that other mothers have same reactions as you. I would love to hear because I am interesting... :)

 
you could be righ might be genetic, but it also could be bad exposure from watching to many violances on t.v. or movies and go to their heads or make friends with the wrong crowds to join their group to get attention all for the wrong way or possiblity bad influence by a cults. It could be many numbers of a person go wrong to take the wrong dark path. :dunno2:

Well, it´s parent´s responsible to limit children what they allow to watch or not and watch child´s movement. It´s parent´s responsible to help child to positive path. Educate them in positive way...

If parent neglect/abuse their child a lot to lead her/him to wrong path.......

It doesn´t mean that we are prefect parents but we tried our best what we can as responsible parents.

Yes I aware that we can´t be here and there for 24/7 days to be with our child or watch our child´s movement... It could be happened sometimes... when we are not there or here... but we can tell their odd movement and then do something...






 
One more thing, Leibling - I do NOT mean to say you are a bad mom or that your parental skill is flawed. I'm just merely saying shit can happens beyond your control. I'm pretty damn sure you're a great mom! :hug:

Okay and :ty: for nice thoughtful post.
 
I'm sorry, I must say that I disagree with you, because from reading jiro123's posts, he/she made a lot of good points.


Do you as mother would do like what she/he suggest?


I'm kind of appalled at your reasoning. For me - if my child was a serial killer, he is dead to me. I'll disavow him and let the court judges his fate. I will have to spend rest of my life thinking about he has done to victims and victims' families. If he got a life sentence, I'm not even going to visit him once.

Yes I have a strong ethic in preserving a life at all cost but there is a line. For example, if this armed robber was robbing me and I caught him with my gun, I will not shoot to kill unless he shoots first or poses extreme danger to my family. I exercise my rights to shoot with extreme hesitance.



Then you should be in prison too for raising a killing machine. I would arrest you and charge you with criminally negligent manslaughter for knowingly raising a killing machine that is a danger to public but self-denying it. If it's your fault for exposing him/her into serial killer, then you should be in jail. Hell - we should arrest punk friends of murderer for exposing him to criminal elements!! Let's arrest owners of strip club for exposing such filth to men who became rapists!!!

Bullshit. Everyone is responsible for their own action - nobody else unless you brainwashed him as your drone and he does everything at your command like a robot.

:roll:


People do have secrets, they're not an open book, the only way you'll know is to get inside their minds.

Take Scott Peterson for an example, his parents thought he was all-loving son, generous, hard-working man, but he had his secrets, that his parents never knew, a son that is be a cold-blood murder. Some people still think he is innocent, but I don't think he is, he wouldn't lie so much, where nobody would want to believe him anymore.

Exactly, you have my point, not him/her. :)

And they are against death penalty for their son.

They are heartbreaking and never thought what and how he did to his wife and unborn child. They agree that he deserves to stay in jail, not death penalty.

Why should we punish the parents of serial killer? We should punish serial killer only, not punish their parents for sentence her or him to death.


 
Cheri, :ty: for share the link... It´s very sad to read it... It hurt me... he look innoncent and do for his sister...

yea thanks god he wasn't wrongfully-executed! After all, abolitionists have nothing to worry about! Justice System prevails!! So far, 0 has been wrongfully-executed!

Simple is they can´t sentence him to death because of minor accord the law. They sure would sentence him to death if he is not minor... His sister aviod death penalty and use him and thought it´s easy because of his age... but it´s not easy what she thought...

I personally disagree justice system to sentence him to life accord his age and good background or sentence him to death accord his good past background.
 
I hate to say it.

That's so bullshit. I was taught by my ex HS that execution can take innocents and I got a few stories from people I barely know. I am so surprise that post claimed there is no wrongfully executed innocents, well, I respectfully disagreed. YES, it does happen. So, I have nothing to say. =/

Yes, me too. It´s hard to beleive that there´re no wrongfully executed innocents... I already posted the link of executed innoncnets somewhere...
 
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