The Death Penalty

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jillio said:
Yeah, you go ahead and rest your case. Perhaps one day, you will be as educated and well informed as you actually believe yourself to be.

If you can't see the problems inherent in Scalia's statement, then you really are incapable of critical thinking. No wonder you continue to refer to "statistics" as "data" despite several explanations regarding the difference.

Oh, and when you use specific cases to illustrate your point, and then the links are parsed straight back to the site from which you pulled them, you have most definately used them as a reference. Do you actually think about the stuff you read, or do you just randomly copy it?
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what's funny is.... it makes me wonder if you are actually clinical Ph.d candidate. All your obfuscation and fast talking makes me think you're actually a political science student. You still have yet to counter-argument with any documentations. I have repeatedly repeatedly repeatedly repeatedly asked you for it and still NO SHOW!
 
jillio said:
And how could you possibly know that for sure?
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Justice Antonin Scalia of Supreme Court said "... in the recent American history, there has not been a single case - not one - in which it is clear that a person was executed for a crime he did not commit."

Why don't you show it to me that we have wrongfully-executed person?
 
jiro123 said:
what's funny is.... it makes me wonder if you are actually clinical Ph.d candidate. All your obfuscation and fast talking makes me think you're actually a political science student. You still have yet to counter-argument with any documentations. I have repeatedly repeatedly repeatedly repeatedly asked you for it and still NO SHOW!
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Just as you have failed to substantiate anything. And, quite frankly, I don't care what you believe. When you are able to provide documentation, I will be happy to provide you with citations for numerous reputable and valid research articles from academic sources.
 
jiro123 said:
Justice Antonin Scalia of Supreme Court said "... in the recent American history, there has not been a single case - not one - in which it is clear that a person was executed for a crime he did not commit."

Why don't you show it to me that we have wrongfully-executed person?
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Like I said, how can you be certain? Answer the question. You are not answering the question. What is it that you don't undertand?
 
jillio said:
Just as you have failed to substantiate anything. And, quite frankly, I don't care what you believe. When you are able to provide documentation, I will be happy to provide you with citations for numerous reputable and valid research articles from academic sources.
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You can start with that first. Some people in this postings have agreed with me that I raised good points by showing you graphs, data, etc. You have not at all. Not once. Remember - if you can SUFFICIENTLY, BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT, with overwhelming arguments by experts and reliable data that capital punishment DOES cause crime rates to increase. Then I will support abolishment of capital punishment and join your cause.

:wiggle:

btw - you'd make a good politician
 
jiro...you put your foot in your mouth.....
scalia states 'IT IS NOT CLEAR' but you tried to pass it off as clear proof....he says it is not clear anyone has been executed wrongly.....you call that proof that none has been executed wrongly...0 you claim....he says 'it is not clear'....read it again....
you tell others to not quote something and try to pass it off as fact....exactly what you have done here
I REST MY CASE
 
CAITAL PUNISHMENT DOES CAUSE CRIME TO INCREASE?????? whoever made that claim....the argument is 'deter'....not to increase....you have made up some kind of new rules to some game in your head.....no one ever claimed it would increase crime....that works for your argument I suppose though....tsk tsk
 
then you want to claim it as fact......quote some funky bunk you made up in your head something that could not be prooven cuz noone ever claimed that anyway....then claim it as fact.....moving the goalpost to win.....silly stuff
 
jiro123 said:
You can start with that first. Some people in this postings have agreed with me that I raised good points by showing you graphs, data, etc. You have not at all. Not once. Remember - if you can SUFFICIENTLY, BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT, with overwhelming arguments by experts and reliable data that capital punishment DOES cause crime rates to increase. Then I will support abolishment of capital punishment and join your cause.

:wiggle:

btw - you'd make a good politician
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Once again, it is not "data", it is "statisitics". And Ihave never claimed that capital punishment causes crime rates to increase, so why should I support a claim I never made? Please show me where I said that capital punshment causes crime rates to increase.
 
Cowpuppy said:
CAITAL PUNISHMENT DOES CAUSE CRIME TO INCREASE?????? whoever made that claim....the argument is 'deter'....not to increase....you have made up some kind of new rules to some game in your head.....no one ever claimed it would increase crime....that works for your argument I suppose though....tsk tsk
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No one made that claim. He is just grasping at straws at this point.
 
sometimes criminals go off the deep end suicidal.....figure will be caught and executed or life sentence...in this way.it could increase it in a few cases but not overall....and noone needs to prove it to you either. it's apples and oranges. two different ideas.
not everything in life is black and white....gray areas
 
Are criminals going to tell us why they did it???.....are you going to trust what they say????? So are these statistics going to proove???.....not so black and white
 
Ever heard the expression...'don't believe everything you read'?
all kinds of stuff out there contradicting each other
mild good for you ...milk bad for you etc
 
Cowpuppy said:
jiro...you put your foot in your mouth.....
scalia states 'IT IS NOT CLEAR' but you tried to pass it off as clear proof....he says it is not clear anyone has been executed wrongly.....you call that proof that none has been executed wrongly...0 you claim....he says 'it is not clear'....read it again....
you tell others to not quote something and try to pass it off as fact....exactly what you have done here
I REST MY CASE
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whoa... where did you get that from? "It is NOT clear" ?????? :confused::confused::confused:

Justice Antonin Scalia of Supreme Court said "... in the recent American history, there has not been a single case - not one - in which it is clear that a person was executed for a crime he did not commit."

Dudley Sharp, Death Penalty Resources Director, Justice For All said "Bedau-Radelet Study - the most thorough and painstaking analysis ever on the subject - fails to prove that a single such mistake has occurred in the United States during the twentieth century. There is, in fact, no proof that an innocent has been executed since 1900."
 
Cowpuppy said:
CAITAL PUNISHMENT DOES CAUSE CRIME TO INCREASE?????? whoever made that claim....the argument is 'deter'....not to increase....you have made up some kind of new rules to some game in your head.....no one ever claimed it would increase crime....that works for your argument I suppose though....tsk tsk
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Referring to Liebling's posting - Myths about the death penalty

Looks like I got mixed up Liebling with Jillio! Silly me :o
 
#402.....not a single case-not one-in which it is clear...it's a negative...it is not clear
this is saying not a single case in which it is clear......it is implying there is no proof anyone has been wrongly executed....it does not imply proof that noone has died wrongly. It only claims no proof that anyone has. It is not clear.
It's called wishful thinking when you believe what your mind wants it to believe.
Need Chase's help here.....or other english pros
 
KarissaMann05 said:
What she said is that she raises their kids in a proper care and a full of love and goodness until one of her children turns in a serial killer. Liebling will very confuse and wonder what she have so wrong, she only want to understand why her child do it so wrong way?

Clearly, she did not mean she will raise their kids as bad/evil children. Of course, she would not do that. I know she is not that kind of person to do so.
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Exactly, that´s what I am trying to explain why I take both sides because every parents have feeling. jiro123 interpreted my post in the wrong way. His/her interpretation shows lack of his/her knowledge and feeling.

I am somewhat, personally, disagree with Liebling because it may not her fault if she do raise their kids very well. It must be some situations effect on one of her children. But, on the other hand, Liebling may be right. I meant, it may be her fault if she don't realize she teach her kids in a slight wrong way. Really, that depend. :)
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Yes, that´s right. Everyone should not feel bad and say that it´s their fault... Everyone would say that it´s not my fault when I raise my child well but a lot of parents feel guilty and wondering themselves why and what have they done anything wrong. I experienced like this in real life.

I am sure that you read my post at other thread (my both hands burnt) that 15 years old girl of my co-worker hanged herself last December 2007. I know my co-worker is a great mother. She focus herself and kept saying to herself what and how have she done anything wrong to lead her daughter to end her life? She took it very badly. I gave her loving support and tried to convince her that it´s not her fault......... I know that feeling... It´s not just her but other friends of mine as well. My parents as well. My mother did not attend my sister´s funeral at 2 years ago... Why? She feel guilty for bad mother to her... My Dad told me that he feel guilty, too for bad father to her... but he still attended her funeral... He cried a lot... I comfort him... and positive him... I posted the story about my sister at other thread... and posted the story to this thread about 2 years old girl of my friend was thrown out of 10th floor window. I got awfully shock because my both friends (parents) are murderer and victimize. (husband killed daughter and tempt to kill her wife)... Please read my story this thread... I think few pages after Bear post.



*I have to go off for work now and will make further posts later.*
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