Shooting at Ft Hood; 7 dead, 20+wounded

[Jiro]

Actually, it was the CIA that was investigating him for 6 months, and there is no proof yet that they had disclosed their findings to the Army.

Where did you see that?

quotes from all articles posted in this thread -

In a statement issued Monday night, the FBI said its investigation "indicates that the alleged gunman acted alone and was not part of a broader terrorist plot."

Hasan came under investigation for a time last year when his communications with radical cleric Anwar al-Awlaki were intercepted by terrorism investigators monitoring the cleric's communications, a federal law enforcement official said.

An employee of the Defense Department's Criminal Investigative Services, assigned to the Joint Terrorism Task Force, ultimately made the decision to drop the investigation after reviewing the intercepted communications and Hasan's personnel files.

The suspect, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, remained in intensive care at Brooke Army Medical Center in San Antonio, Texas. In a statement issued Monday night, the FBI said its investigation so far "indicates that the alleged gunman acted alone and was not part of a broader terrorist plot."

The intercepts "raised no red flags," with no mention of threats or violence that would have triggered a U.S. terrorism investigation, senior investigative officials said Monday.

"Because the content of the communications was explainable by his research and nothing else derogatory was found, the JTTF concluded that Maj. Hasan was not involved in terrorist activities or terrorist planning," it said.

The Army psychiatrist accused of the Fort Hood massacre is believed to have acted alone despite repeated communications — monitored by authorities — with a radical imam overseas, U.S. officials said Monday. The FBI will conduct an internal review of its handling of the information, they said.

Military officials were made aware of communications between the two, but because the messages did not advocate or threaten violence, civilian law enforcement authorities could not take the matter further, the officials said. The terrorism task force concluded Hasan was not involved in terrorist planning.

The FBI says that a US Army major suspected of killing 13 people was not part of a "broader terrorist plot".

 

[sallylou]

It really depends on how you define "terrorist." Generally, Timothy McVeigh is called a terrorist and he acted alone. This case seems similar.

 

[Eve]

Jiro, I hate to say it, but this information is coming from the same people that had this information months ago and could have prevented this from ever happening. Looks to me like a case of covering their own asses. I also agree with sallylou that it depends on your definition of "terrorist".

It says that he "was not part of a broader terrorist plot", only meaning that he did not conspire with others. That doesn't mean he isn't a "terrorist".

 

[sara1981]

updates from CNN

Fort Hood killings 'incomprehensible,' Obama says
Fort Hood killings 'incomprehensible,' Obama says - CNN.com

Fort Hood, Texas (CNN) -- The sound of taps echoed across the Texas plains Tuesday after President Obama pledged that the work of those killed in last week's Fort Hood massacre will go on despite their "incomprehensible" slayings.

Speaking to an estimated 15,000 people at a memorial service at the post, Obama vowed that justice will be done in the attack that left 13 dead and 42 wounded.

Though he told the families that "no words can fill the void that has been left," he added, "your loved ones endure through the life of our nation."

"Their life's work is our security and the freedom that we too often take for granted. Every evening that the sun sets on a tranquil town; every dawn that a flag is unfurled; every moment that an American enjoys life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness -- that is their legacy," the president said.

After his remarks, Obama and first lady Michelle Obama laid a presidential coin before each of the 13 battlefield crosses -- the helmet, boots and rifle representing each of those killed -- before family members and comrades filed past.

Fort Hood Army Post has seen 545 soldiers killed in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, said Lt. Gen. Robert Cone, the post's commander, "but never did we expect to pay such a high price at home."

Gen. George Casey, the Army's chief of staff, added, "Grieve with us. Don't grieve for us."

"Those who have fallen did so in the service of their country," he said. "They freely answered the call to serve, and they gave their lives for something that they loved and believed in."

Obama called the wartime killings of American troops on their home soil "incomprehensible." But he said the values the dead volunteered to defend will live on and will be extended even to the man accused of carrying to the slayings.

The suspected gunman in the attack is a 39-year-old Army psychiatrist, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, who remained in intensive care at an Army hospital in San Antonio, Texas.

Hasan, an American-born Muslim of Palestinian descent, was scheduled to deploy to Afghanistan but had told his family that he wanted to get out of the military.

"No faith justifies these murderous and craven acts," Obama said at the memorial service. But he said soldiers who responded to the attack "remind us of who we are as Americans."

"We are a nation of laws whose commitment to justice is so enduring that we would treat a gunman and give him due process, just as surely as we will see that he pays for his crimes," he said.

No charges have been filed, and authorities have not identified a motive in Thursday's attack. But in a statement issued Monday night, the FBI said its investigation "indicates that the alleged gunman acted alone and was not part of a broader terrorist plot."

Thursday's victims included 12 soldiers and a retired soldier working as a civilian physician's assistant.

Shortly before the ceremony and 1,200 miles away, the remains of one of the soldiers was carried off a chartered jet in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

An honor guard met the casket of Sgt. Amy Krueger on the apron at General Mitchell International Airport.

Krueger, 29, was a high school athlete who joined the military after the September 11 attacks on New York and Washington. She was assigned to a medical unit that was doing checkups on soldiers bound for Afghanistan and Iraq when the shooting erupted.

Defense Secretary Robert Gates, Texas Gov. Rick Perry and more than a dozen members of Congress were among who attended the service on the warm Texas afternoon.

 

[sara1981]

updates

Lehigh resident tries to send flowers to Ft. Hood shooter
Lehigh resident tries to send flowers to Ft. Hood shooter - NBC-2.com WBBH News for Fort Myers, Cape Coral & Naples, Florida

LEE COUNTY: Federal Bureau of Investigation agents showed up at the house of 61-year-old Dan Ross to find out why he tried to send flowers to the alleged Fort Hood shooter, who Ross calls a 'hero.'

Ross is a former Vietnam War soldier and Christian. He says his faith led him to order roses for Major Nidal Hasan, the man accused of killing 13 soldiers at Fort Hood. Ross calls Hasan a hero.

"The FBI were the ones who actually killed those 13 people, because they were well informed that this guy was against the United States of America," said Ross.

One day after the shooting, Ross placed an order for a $59.95 bouquet of yellow roses to be delivered to the hospital where Hasan remains in critical condition.

"By my doing that, I was immediately labeled a terrorist," said Ross.

"I ask you respect my freedom of speech and freedom of religion" Ross wrote in an email to a Killeen Texas florist. Ross asked the following note be attached to the roses.

"Major Nidal Hasan. Qur'an Chapter 2: Verse 190-3. In God's eye, and those who submit, you are a hero."

We asked Ross if he thinks Hasan is a hero.

"He can be used as a hero for a better good," said Ross.

Ross, an Army veteran, showed us a living room decorated with photos of his son, a Navy officer and his daughter, a member of the Army ROTC at Stetson University. He claims his actions were that of a Christian-- in fact, the Apostle Peter, reborn.

NBC2's Katie LaGrone: I just want to understand why a man would send roses to an alleged killer?
Ross: It's phony bologna. Holy Spirit just told me.
LaGrone: The Holy Spirit's talking to you right now?
Ross: Just a little bit

His wife of 24 years says Ross poses no threat.

"He thinks it's a part of the Bible," said Eng Ross.

Ross was questioned by the FBI because of the flowers.

 

[sara1981]

updates from yahoo news

Fort Hood Service: Meaning Behind the Memorial
The Buzz Log - Fort Hood Service: Meaning Behind the Memorial - Yahoo! Buzz

The memorial service that honored the 13 killed in the shooting rampage at Fort Hood invoked many somber military traditions. Here, the meaning behind some of the most common.

Taps
The lone bugle call has been played since the Civil War to musically mourn the fallen. The composer, Union Army Brigadier General Daniel Butterfield wrote it in 1862 to replace the earlier "Extinguished Lights Out," which he thought too formal. The tune became known as "Taps" because the 24 notes can be tapped on a drum when there is no bugler. Although the call originated with the Northern army, the tradition spread to camps in the north and south, and has become the tradition for the armed forces ever since.

Rifle volley
Firing three shots originated from the battlefield. Once the dead were removed, a volley of three shots would be fired to signal that the battle could continue. That's different from a 21-gun salute, which is generally reserved for heads of state.

Boots on display
President Obama spoke in front of the grim reminders of the deceased men and women: Each of the 13 was remembered with a photo, boots, and a helmet atop an inverted gun. According to army lore, helmet and ID tags represent the fallen soldier. The rifle pointed toward the ground notes a break in action to pay tribute to the dead. The combat boots symbolize the soldier's last march.

Commander-in-chief coin
After the president spoke, he and the first lady paid their respects. The president left a commander-in-chief coin for each of the fallen. This is a tradition among military officers but considered the highest honor coming from the commander in chief.

The roll call of the dead — the name is called but there is no response — and a final salute are also invoked to bring some closure for the grieving families. As Obama said in his tribute to the 13 lost on the base, not the battlefield, "They were killed here on American soil ... It's the fact that makes the tragedy ever more painful, even more incomprehensible."

 

[Jiro]

It really depends on how you define "terrorist." Generally, Timothy McVeigh is called a terrorist and he acted alone. This case seems similar.

it doesn't matter if one is acting alone or not. Terrorism is usually defined when one is using means of violence for one's political/religious zeal.... usually targeted to a specific group.

Tim McVeigh's target was the government for its role in Waco and Ruby Ridge and he had extreme hatred toward government. Ted Kaczynski's targets were the technologists because he's a Luddite. Osama bin Laden's target is the Americans for religious and political reasons.

so in this Fort Hood case - things are showing many similarities to Virginia Tech shooter, Illinois college shooter, Columbine shooters, Omaha mall shooter, etc.

If you think Hasan's a terrorist - convince me other than a weak evidence of him attempting to contact Al Queda.

 

[Jiro]

Jiro, I hate to say it, but this information is coming from the same people that had this information months ago and could have prevented this from ever happening. Looks to me like a case of covering their own asses. I also agree with sallylou that it depends on your definition of "terrorist".

It says that he "was not part of a broader terrorist plot", only meaning that he did not conspire with others. That doesn't mean he isn't a "terrorist".

could have prevented this from ever happening? Can you say same for Virginia Tech Shooting? DC sniper shooting?

 

[Eve]

Can you say same for Virginia Tech Shooting? DC sniper shooting?

no, and that is one way this can be set apart and labeled as a terrorist action. There has been sufficient evidence that this man was acting according to his religious beliefs...he posted on websites supporting suicide bombings, he attempted to contact Al Queda, he attended the same mosque as two of the 911 terrorists, he spoke out in class, giving "a jarring presentation to students in which he argued the war on terrorism was a war against Islam". If this isn't sufficient evidence that this is "terrorist activity", then I don't know what is.

 

[Jiro]

no, and that is one way this can be set apart and labeled as a terrorist action. There has been sufficient evidence that this man was acting according to his religious beliefs...he posted on websites supporting suicide bombings, he attempted to contact Al Queda, he attended the same mosque as two of the 911 terrorists, he spoke out in class, giving "a jarring presentation to students in which he argued the war on terrorism was a war against Islam". If this isn't sufficient evidence that this is "terrorist activity", then I don't know what is.

guess we'll have to wait for investigation to finish.... which will takes months, if not years.

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

And how is that different from the school shooters? They all had the same patterns...

Timmy took it out on the government; Hasan took it out on his co-workers.

 

[sallylou]

I didn't say that I thought he was a terrorist. I said that if you think that he's like Timothy McVeigh, then he would be a terrorist. We don't have much evidence right now. It's going to take a while for investigators to get the solid evidence sorted out.

 

[sara1981]

updates from time for yahoo news

Did Army Give Hasan a Pass Over Muslim Religion?
Did Army Give Hasan a Pass Over Muslim Religion? - Yahoo! News

As officials continue to investigate the alleged Fort Hood killer, it is looking increasingly likely that the Army missed several red flags in Major Nidal Malik Hasan's behavior. Many observers say it wouldn't be surprising if such signals had been missed, given that Hasan was a psychiatrist whom the Army desperately needed to help tend to the mental wounds of two wars. But at the same time, some members of the military are quietly discussing the more troubling possibility that the Army looked the other way precisely because Hasan was Muslim. (See pictures of the Fort Hood shootings.)


Army officials strongly deny any suggestion that Hasan's religion resulted in his being given special treatment. But one officer who attended the Pentagon's medical school with Hasan disagrees. "He was very vocal about being a Muslim first and holding Shari'a law above the Constitution," this officer recalls. When fellow students asked, "How can you be an officer and hold to the Constitution?," the officer says, Hasan would "get visibly upset - sweaty and nervous - and had no good answers." This medical doctor would speak only anonymously because his commanders have ordered him not to talk about Hasan, he says.


This officer says he was so surprised when Hasan gave a talk about "the war on terror being a war on Islam" that he asked the lieutenant colonel running the course what Hasan's presentation had to do with health care. "I raised my hand and asked, 'Why are you letting this go on - this has nothing to do with environmental health.' The course director said, 'I'm just going to let him go.' " The topic of Hasan's presentation, the officer says, had been approved in advance by the lieutenant colonel.


The officer says he and a colleague complained to staff at the Uniformed University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md., but got nowhere: "It was a systemic problem - the same thing was happening at Walter Reed," the Army medical center several miles away, where Hasan was working as a psychiatrist. (The Washington Post reported Tuesday that Hasan gave a similar presentation at Walter Reed in which he said Muslims should be released as conscientious objectors rather than forced into combat against fellow Muslims.) But "political correctness" inside the military, the officer asserts, insulated Hasan. "People are afraid to come forward and challenge somebody's ideology," he says, "because they're afraid of getting an equal-opportunity complaint that can end careers."


A retired four-star officer says that, on the basis of the evidence gleaned so far, it was Hasan's career that should have been cut short. "They could have given him a dishonorable discharge and said what he's doing works against good order and discipline," says the general, who also requested anonymity. But rather than it being a matter of giving preferential treatment to Hasan because of his religion, "my guess is he fell through the cracks," the general says.


Whether he fell through the cracks or was cut slack because of concerns about appearing to impinge on his religious freedom will be a focus of the investigations under way. "The Army was just under such pressure that they planned to send him to Afghanistan," says Lawrence Korb, Pentagon personnel chief during the Reagan Administration. But Korb says he's perplexed by reports that Hasan received poor evaluations and still got promoted. "That tells me the Army didn't do its job," he says - though he attributes that to the unrelenting demand to keep mental-health professionals on duty rather than to Hasan's religion.


But Ralph Peters, a retired Army lieutenant colonel who now writes military books and a newspaper column, contends that Hasan's religion protected him from punitive action by the Army, a view shared privately by many in uniform. While stressing "there shouldn't be witch hunts" against Muslims in uniform, Peters insists "this guy got a pass because he was a Muslim, despite the Army's claim that everybody's green and we're all the same."


Congress is already beginning to look into why an Army psychiatrist who reportedly had to be counseled against sharing his antiwar views with soldiers back from combat could have possibly been promoted in May. Senator Joe Lieberman of Connecticut, chairman of the Homeland Security Committee, said on Monday that he will hold a hearing next week to see "whether the government missed warning signs that should have led to [Hasan's] expulsion" before he killed 13 people on the Texas post last Thursday. Hasan's former classmate, for one, says he wasn't surprised to see Hasan's face flash across his television screen. "After the shock," he says, "the first thing that went through my mind was, Hey, I remember everything this guy said."

 

[Jiro]

And how is that different from the school shooters? They all had the same patterns...

Timmy took it out on the government; Hasan took it out on his co-workers.

there you go. if Hasan wants to do the terrorist way - he would use his military credential to smuggle in car bomb or something destructive that will inflict a heavy casualty like in majority of terrorist attacks against military bases.

It is possible that Hasan performed these terrorist-like activities in order to try to get out of military... which was why the agencies closed the terrorist investigation on him. It was feeble enough to warrant an microscopic investigation.

 

[Reba]

there you go. if Hasan wants to do the terrorist way - he would use his military credential to smuggle in car bomb or something destructive that will inflict a heavy casualty like in majority of terrorist attacks against military bases.

Not necessarily.

Some terrorists prefer the "personal" direct touch of using guns or grenades. Also, he may not have had the technical skills to put together a bomb. Also, it's harder to smuggle in a car bomb than hand guns, and it's harder to deploy a car bomb on most bases. Most buildings on military facilities have concrete barriers (sometimes "disguised" as planters or other decorative elements) in front of them to prevent cars from driving thru since 9/11.

Cars are randomly sniffed and searched for bombs.

It is possible that Hasan performed these terrorist-like activities in order to try to get out of military... which was why the agencies closed the terrorist investigation on him. It was feeble enough to warrant an microscopic investigation.

Umm, people who perform terrorist-like activities do so because they are--terrorists. That includes "freelance" lone wolf terrorists.

Ducks quack like ducks and act like ducks because they are--ducks! Even when a duck quacks alone, it's still a duck.

Are you sure they actually closed the investigation on him? Are you sure?

 

[Jiro]

Not necessarily.

Some terrorists prefer the "personal" direct touch of using guns or grenades. Also, he may not have had the technical skills to put together a bomb. Also, it's harder to smuggle in a car bomb than hand guns, and it's harder to deploy a car bomb on most bases. Most buildings on military facilities have concrete barriers (sometimes "disguised" as planters or other decorative elements) in front of them to prevent cars from driving thru since 9/11.

Cars are randomly sniffed and searched for bombs.

the shrapnel kills. just wait for busy day when soldiers are walking outside and BOOM! beside - he's a ranking officer and he's been there for quite a while. I'm sure he would know where the vulnerable spot is to do it but he didn't. he simply went postal.... IMO

Umm, people who perform terrorist-like activities do so because they are--terrorists. That includes "freelance" lone wolf terrorists.

Ducks quack like ducks and act like ducks because they are--ducks! Even when a duck quacks alone, it's still a duck.

Are you sure they actually closed the investigation on him? Are you sure?

from what I read - they closed investigations on him for any tie with terrorism. right now - they're investigating on his motive.

 

[Reba]

the shrapnel kills. just wait for busy day when soldiers are walking outside and BOOM! beside - he's a ranking officer and he's been there for quite a while. I'm sure he would know where the vulnerable spot is to do it but he didn't. he simply went postal.... IMO

Believe it or not, even terrorists have their preferred modes of destruction.

Just because he was an officer doesn't mean he was an expert in munitions. He was, after all, a medical officer, not a line officer.

 

[Beowulf]

None of my combat veteran friends believe there was a lone shooter. They point out that this did not happen in some mall, but in a military installation where the soldiers were trained in combat tactics and some were combat veterans. It is hard to swallow that a policeman finally stopped him after he gunned down over 40 people.
Maybe this will NEVER be "solved."

 

[Reba]

None of my combat veteran friends believe there was a lone shooter. They point out that this did not happen in some mall, but in a military installation where the soldiers were trained in combat tactics and some were combat veterans. It is hard to swallow that a policeman finally stopped him after he gunned down over 40 people.
Maybe this will NEVER be "solved."

Maybe we'll have more answers from the ballistics forensics report.

From what I understand, none of the soldiers were armed, and they were positioned around tables in cubicles which made them sitting ducks.

It would help if we could see the crime scene in 3D, including the shot trajectories, with a time frame.

The thing that bothers me is that he was able to reload without being taken down by someone. I don't know what his relative position was to those he was shooting (some say he was standing on a table). It just seems that someone should have been able to tackle him while reloading. But maybe I've just watched too many TV movies.

I would like to hear more testimonies from those who were present.

 

[Jiro]

Believe it or not, even terrorists have their preferred modes of destruction.

Just because he was an officer doesn't mean he was an expert in munitions. He was, after all, a medical officer, not a line officer.

looking at past terrorist attacks by lone terrorists... Hasan doesn't even come close to it. His action and attitude do not show much resemblance or pattern to these past terrorists.

He is more like these lone shooters with deranged minds such as Virginia Tech shooter, Illinois College shooter, Omaha Mall shooter, and DC sniper.