Shooting at Ft Hood; 7 dead, 20+wounded

[Jiro]

These were recent news events.

No, they are not all held accountable for honor killings except in Western countries, and even then not always.

Why are you mentioning "murders, rapes, assaults, racism, bigotry, etc."? Your claim was about modern Muslims.

yes guess where most of modern Muslims reside in?

Documentation for that allegation, please.

Rogue Minutemen leader held in fatal home invasion - CNN.com

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/27/us/27arizona.html?_r=1&ref=us

there you go.

 

[Reba]

showing racism and bigotry is not violence? You do know the violence precedes these dangerous traits, right?

"Post" means "happened after."

"Precedes" means "happens before."

 

[Jiro]

"Post" means "happened after."

"Precedes" means "happens before."

again - I listed 3 things. I'm sure there are violence committed in response to Fort Hood but it's just not reported in national news. just sit and wait. this is simply a history of racial crimes repeated all over again. Before - it was anti-Semitic violence. Now it's anti-Muslim violence.

 

[sallylou]

Thanks, souggy. I understand now. "Modern" is an adjective fraught with racism and superiority. Dangerous word.

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

again - I listed 3 things. I'm sure there are violence committed in response to Fort Hood but it's just not reported in national news. just sit and wait. this is simply a history of racial crimes repeated all over again. Before - it was anti-Semitic violence. Now it's anti-Muslim violence.

If it's violence against Muslims, it's still considered as anti-Semitic... even among the Muslims themselves.

Just a heads-up after trying to get ASL interpreters for a few events hosted by University-sponsored Islamic groups.

 

[Reba]

Reba, you were the one who brought up the issue of violence against women. My point is that both Muslim countries and the U.S. have a problem with violence against women. Part of the whole violence problem in general.

Sorry, no, you are incorrect. I was responding to Jiro's post #178 where he brought up the subject of modern Islam and the stoning of women.

The issue was NOT "general" violence against women. It was Islamic-state-and-religion-approved-and-supported violence against women.

 

[Jiro]

Thanks, souggy. I understand now. "Modern" is an adjective fraught with racism and superiority. Dangerous word.

really? I don't think that way. I see "Modern" as a step forward to unity and harmony.

 

[Reba]

again - I listed 3 things. I'm sure there are violence committed in response to Fort Hood but it's just not reported in national news. just sit and wait.

Until such time that you can document acts of violence that occur as a result of the Fort Hood shooting, it would behoove you to not make allegations that you can't support.

 

[Jiro]

Sorry, no, you are incorrect. I was responding to Jiro's post #178 where he brought up the subject of modern Islam and the stoning of women.

The issue was NOT "general" violence against women. It was Islamic-state-and-religion-approved-and-supported violence against women.

right. These countries you listed (Afghanistan, Iran, and Somalia) are Islamic-state-and-religion-approved-and-supported and I have to point out that these countries are not largely modernized nor do they adhere to modern teaching of Islam.

 

[Jiro]

Until such time that you can document acts of violence that occur as a result of the Fort Hood shooting, it would behoove you to not make allegations that you can't support.

ok. I guess historical events don't matter. precedent incidents don't matter. I guess the lawyers shouldn't be allowed to present precedent legal cases as part of arguments in courts.

 

[kokonut]

Sorry, no, you are incorrect. I was responding to Jiro's post #178 where he brought up the subject of modern Islam and the stoning of women.

The issue was NOT "general" violence against women. It was Islamic-state-and-religion-approved-and-supported violence against women.

Bingo! You hit it square on. It's about the support of violence and oppression against women, most notably from govt and culture themselves.

 

[kokonut]

Until such time that you can document acts of violence that occur as a result of the Fort Hood shooting, it would behoove you to not make allegations that you can't support.

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

Please use "westernized" over "modern." At least when you say "westernized," it give you an idea of where the cultural influence come from. With "modern," it implies that anything that doesn't adhere to your idea of "modern" is backwards. On the flipside, "modern" also imply contemporary as well among certain people.

 

[Jiro]

Please use "westernized" over "modern." At least when you say "westernized," it give you an idea of where the cultural influence come from. With "modern," it implies that anything that doesn't adhere to your idea of "modern" is backwards. On the flipside, "modern" also imply contemporary as well among certain people.

that's the thing. Just because it's modern doesn't mean they're living it westernized style. Modern Muslim women can choose to wear hijab or not. They can choose to wear jeans or not. They can choose to converse with any man or not.

it simply means that they are no longer following old way of life to the letter. Look at Jews - both traditional and modern.

I suppose you could argue that it is Western-influenced but I just don't see it that way.

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

that's the thing. Just because it's modern doesn't mean they're living it westernized style. Modern Muslim women can choose to wear hijab or not. They can choose to wear jeans or not. They can choose to converse with any man or not.

it simply means that they are no longer following old way of life to the letter. Look at Jews - both traditional and modern.

I suppose you could argue that it is Western-influenced but I just don't see it that way.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaah. Then the word you are looking for is "progressive." In different branches of Christianity, there's "traditional" and "progressive."

 

[Jiro]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaah. Then the word you are looking for is "progressive." In different branches of Christianity, there's "traditional" and "progressive."

fair enough

 

[Reba]

yes guess where most of modern Muslims reside in?

Indonesia.

Rogue Minutemen leader held in fatal home invasion - CNN.com

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/27/us/27arizona.html?_r=1&ref=us

there you go.

Did you read the part that explained it was a "former" Minuteman?

"...Forde was a one-time member of the Minutemen Civil Defense Corps, a citizens group whose self-described mission is to secure the U.S. border, before she started her own smaller border enforcement organization.

...But even among this gung-ho group of self-styled border warriors, Forde was extreme, both Minutemen members and their critics agreed.

...The Minutemen kicked Forde out of their ranks in 2007, Ray said."

She was a rogue, working outside of Minutemen Civil Defense Corps standards. She was kicked out long before the home invasion.

 

[sallylou]

There is sanctioned violence and there's Jim Crow. Whatever label you slap on it, it's still the same old violence.

Jiro, historically white people (Europeans and Americans) called themselves "modern" compared to the "savages" in Africa (or insert your favorite non-white group in a poorer place). Some words have a connotation as a result of historical context.

 

[sallylou]

You know that a person is really out there when she's too rouge for a rouge group.

 

[Reba]

Thanks, souggy. I understand now. "Modern" is an adjective fraught with racism and superiority. Dangerous word.

I used "modern" to differentiate between the 18th Century Minutemen and the 21st Century Minutemen. They are two totally separate organizations.

I don't know for sure what Jiro meant by "modern". I took it to mean "current", as 21st Century, the same way I used it.