Roe v. Wade - For Men

[jillio]

medical decisions to end another life.

Incorrect. You are ignoring the concept of viability. If you wish to discuss the medical aspects, you will need to use the medical definitions.

 

[Steinhauer]

Incorrect. You are ignoring the concept of viability. If you wish to discuss the medical aspects, you will need to use the medical definitions.

medical definitions designed to cope with the guilt associated to ending another life.

 

[jillio]

If they were old enough to have a child, they are old enough to make sacrifices.

12 year olds are old enough to get pregnant. They are not old enough to even understand the concept of sacrifices. Another hole in your argument.

 

[jillio]

medical definitions designed to cope with the guilt associated to ending another life.

Nope. Medical definitions based on scientific fact. And guilt is subjective, and usually assigned by those attempting to control another's actions simply because they believe their own value system to be superior.

 

[Jiro]

Uh ... dude, I believe anything is possible. Try reading books written by men far more intelligent than yourself sometime and see what they believe.

yes but the thing is - can you comprehend their work?

If I were to give that book to 3 people - a dumbass, average-intelligence Joe the Plumber, and a highly-intelligent person with advanced degrees.

so would you agree that among 3 people on the subject of "the elegant universe"... one would present a paranoid or fallacious argument and/or develop a paranoid thought?

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

Yep. And the repercussions of abortions are something women have to deal with. You think women get abortions then "forget about it"? Sigh.. so naive.

Sorry for taking your post out of context, but I only want to add onto this tadbit.

A girl I was seeing, just a fling, confided that she had an abortion before. She doesn't regret it since she was too young (I forgot if she was 14 or 16 at the time) and she wasn't mentally stable enough to take a child on, but she still feels guilty about it-- mostly because she was born in a messed up, abusive family herself. Adopting out wasn't an option to her because foster care was a state worse than death to her since she grew up in that system.

But she did state if she got knocked up again, even if it's more logical to abort the fetus, she would keep the baby because she underwent severe depression with the first abortion, and she doesn't want to end up in the mental ward again. I still find it sad that even though she willingly acknowledge that she won't be able to take care of a kid, she would only keep him or her to avoid being under psychological care.

 

[Jiro]

If they were old enough to have a child, they are old enough to make sacrifices.

1st sentence - medical decisions to end another life.

2nd question: A lot of men do, yes. (my father was one of them, so was his dad ....)

then we are in agreement that men do not get to opt out of child support until the child is 18 years old especially this guy.

 

[jillio]

Sorry for taking your post out of context, but I only want to add onto this tadbit.

A girl I was seeing, just a fling, confided that she had an abortion before. She doesn't regret it since she was too young (I forgot if she was 14 or 16 at the time) and she wasn't mentally stable enough to take a child on, but she still feels guilty about it-- mostly because she was born in a messed up, abusive family herself. Adopting out wasn't an option to her because foster care was worse than death to her since she grew up in that system.

But she did state if she got knocked up again, even if it's more logical to abort the fetus, she would keep the baby because she underwent severe depression with the first abortion, and she doesn't want to end up in the mental ward again. I still find it sad that even though she willingly acknowledge that she won't be able to take care of a kid, she would only keep him or her to avoid being under psychological care.

That is sad. And if she experienced severe depression following an abortion,she would be a great risk for severe post-partum depression, as well.

 

[KarissaMann05]

What? I thought you guys and a lot of pro-choicers don't believe in "tales" of sad and regret stories from women and young ladies? Because They tend to don't believe in actual decreased women and young women from legal abortions. Not even this, Post Abortion Syndrome stories...

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

What? I thought you guys and a lot of pro-choicers don't believe in "tales" of sad and regret stories from women and young ladies? Because They tend to don't believe in actual decreased women and young women from legal abortions. Not even this, Post Abortion Syndrome stories...

Except mine is different. It's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" story. And honestly, in those situations, I am not even sure where I stand regarding scenarios that state adoption, abortion or keeping a baby is not an option.

 

[Jiro]

really? This is news to me.

really?

Goodnight Jillio .. I gotta get some zzzzz's.

Nothing personal from me. I respect your expertise, just trying to share with you what I have been exposed to, and it hasn't been very positive.

I apologize if you took all of this personally, but I cannot "unsee" what I have seen and will not pretend that there is no major corruption in your line of work.

I am not saying YOU are corrupt.

busted.

 

[jillio]

What? I thought you guys and a lot of pro-choicers don't believe in "tales" of sad and regret stories from women and young ladies? Because They tend to don't believe in actual decreased women and young women from legal abortions. Not even this, Post Abortion Syndrome stories...

Where did you get that idea? We just don't believe that those sad stories are sufficient to repeal the law that applies to everyone. We also believe that individuals are responsible for the consequences of the decisions that they make. Perhaps the women who authored those sad stories should have taken the time to consider their decision a bit more throroughly.

 

[KarissaMann05]

Except mine is different. It's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" story. And honestly, in those situations, I am not even sure where I stand regarding scenarios that state adoption, abortion or keeping a baby is not an option.

In my opinion, I think... both lifers and choicers need the third party.

 

[Jiro]

Actually, I'm familiar with those, yet I notice something's wrong in it... maybe you disagree with me, but that's okay. I respect yours; I understand. By the way, just because you think pro-lifers are stupid and irresponsible that does not mean all pro-lifers' have same opinions. There are some pro-lifers actually agree with you about those for some reasons.

Roe v. Wade has nothing to do with pro-lifer's or anybody's stance/belief/opinion/etc.

there's absolutely nothing wrong with Roe v. Wade. It's about extending women's constitutional rights to privacy especially when it comes to medical decision on her own body.

 

[jillio]

really?




busted.

Exactly the kind of contradiction in posts that I was referring to.

 

[jillio]

Roe v. Wade has nothing to do with pro-lifer's or anybody's stance/belief/opinion/etc.

there's absolutely nothing wrong with Roe v. Wade. It's about extending women's constitutional rights to privacy especially when it comes to medical decision on her own body.

I don't know why people can't absorb that one simple fact. That makes this whole thread moot. Men are afforded the constitutional right to privacy in regard to medical decisions involving their own body. They have already achieved the equality that Roe v Wade affords women.

 

[KarissaMann05]

Where did you get that idea? We just don't believe that those sad stories are sufficient to repeal the law that applies to everyone. We also believe that individuals are responsible for the consequences of the decisions that they make. Perhaps the women who authored those sad stories should have taken the time to consider their decision a bit more throroughly.

Maybe I read too much. Because Pro-lifers who tend to assume that all women who have had abortions must necessarily regret them, while pro-choicers who tend to assume that if a woman regrets an abortion there must be something wrong with her. Like, she's been brainwashed by pro-lifers or something. But I think it should be both ways. By the way, yes I agree with you about that bold you said.

 

[Daredevel7]

If they were old enough to have a child, they are old enough to make sacrifices.

But that doesn't make sense. You are missing the point of my post. The mother and father have a DISAGREEMENT on what to do with the child. They cannot agree on what to do with the child.

Yes they have to make sacrifices, but the degree of sacrifices are DIFFERENT for each choice. Options: mother keeps the baby, father keeps the baby, one of them dropping out of college, putting it up for adoption, aborting the baby, and so on..

Unless.... wait a minute.. you think EVERY couple who accidentally gets pregnant MUST stay together and raise the baby? Is that your point? Is this the sacrifice you were talking about?

 

[jillio]

Maybe I read too much. Because Pro-lifers who tend to assume that all women who have had abortions must necessarily regret them, while pro-choicers who tend to assume that if a woman regrets an abortion there must be something wrong with her. Like, she's been brainwashed by pro-lifers or something. But I think it should be both ways. By the way, yes I agree with you about that bold you said.

You can never read too much. That is the way to become informed.

 

[Jiro]

I don't know why people can't absorb that one simple fact. That makes this whole thread moot. Men are afforded the constitutional right to privacy in regard to medical decisions involving their own body. They have already achieved the equality that Roe v Wade affords women.

and plus - I don't know why people fail to understand that there are actually laws regarding abortion. I'm trying hard to figure out why people seem to think women can get abortion at any time they want.

PARTIAL ABORTION IS ILLEGAL! ABORTION IS ILLEGAL IF YOU ARE IN 2ND TRIMESTER UNLESS THERE IS EXTENUATING CIRCUMSTANCE THAT CAN KILL YOU!