Returning soldiers struggle to find therapists

[javapride]

here in hawaii VERY RECENTLY had a murder happening here, one guy killed his unborn son, and his son in a fit of rage, HE JUST returned from tour of duty and as Awful as it was, his 14 yr old son died a hero, he saved his mother's life unfortunely he was stabbed in the neck along with his unborn son who was fatally stabbed by his father which was HARD and awful as it was. all he did was say fuck this im killing the baby, cuz in hawaii. u can't be arrested for murder of a unborn fetus which just makes me sick! i wished they wld charged him for that SO HE would relize he killed 2 innocent poeple one who never had a chance to see the world! sick prick!

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Short answer is no...

Anti-war is means people who against on war but support armies to stay in country and do something with mission in their home country, instread of cause massive death in horrible war, such as Iraq and Vietnam was old time, of course. Don't need be rant or blame at me or Liebling for being anti-war, that is our personal feeling and you need show some respect on personal feeling.

If people who don't support armies then supposed to call anti-military or anti-patriot.

*E*X*A*C*T*L*Y*

The war-supporters are ignorant and do not understand those difference. *shake my head disguistly. *

 

[akoutsourais]

Military service is not a "job".


No, but they are all volunteers, and they knew what they were potentially getting into. They don't enjoy war but they don't shirk from their duty either.

Yes it is a job to many. I tried enlisting when I was 17. The only reason I wanted to enlist was for college, as my father's military pay didn't cut it. My recruiters always had little functions for their potential recruits. I went to school with many of them. Excluding one, none of us were signing up to defend freedom, protect oil, spread democracy, stop genocide, overthrow governments, etc. We wanted to join for college money, for a paycheck (hence "job"), to escape poverty, or maybe just for some direction.

Yes they enlist expecting to defend our Constitution, foreign and domestic. This administration treats our constitution as toilet paper. I can't find one correlation between our occupation of Iraq and the oath these men and women took when they enlisted. The military should never shrink from their duty, as I don't want the military deciding our foreign policy. Which is why it is imperative for civilians to do THEIR duty and not stand for the bulls#$% (btw is it ok to swear on this board?). Defense of our democracy and freedom is not just the military's job. Without the citizens outcry/support it's just covered up fascism.

and btw, they may just have not known exactly what they were in for. My father spent 2 years as a recruiter. When it came time for me to enlist I was forbidden from talking with my recruiter without my father present. Want to know why? Because my father knew that some will lie and exaggerate to meet their quota. My father hated that job, as while he thought the ARMY was wonderful for him, he didn't think it was for most, and felt the need to tell it like it really was.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I do understand your feelings but those soliders go to war as they are ordered to.. they have NO CHOICE.. they can't back off? Some of them would go AWOL for a while but they would either go to jail to serve their time or get dishonorable discharged and they would have a hard time finding good jobs because of it.

See? That´s why I support soliders and agree with them that it´s not necassary to go Iraq. Why they are force to go there then?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Her work supports the same war effort that she despises.

It proves yourself is an ignorant. *shake my head*

 

[Liebling:-)))]

true, but the money she collects is paid by you and I. It's OUR money.

What´s your point?

The soliders are everywhere in the world to defend against emenies from other countries for come to our countries but it doesn´t mean that they are force to go enemies´s country to attack them.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

No, but they are all volunteers, and they knew what they were potentially getting into. They don't enjoy war but they don't shirk from their duty either.

volunteers? It sound not volunteers to me...

http://www.alldeaf.com/war-politica...uilty-desertion-trial-germany.html#post792063


Yes they are volunteer to be soliders to defend their or other countries against enemies. They KNOW they risk their life to defend their or other countries against enemies but force go to enemies´s country to make a war with them... ????

 

[akoutsourais]

What´s your point?

The soliders are everywhere in the world to defend against emenies from other countries for come to our countries but it doesn´t mean that they are force to go enemies´s country to attack them.

lol, my point was you aren't taking money from war mongers, you are paid by tax payers. No biggie. I didn't like the fact Reba insuated that Bush is king and pays people with his money.

 

[Reba]

Yes it is a job to many. I tried enlisting when I was 17. The only reason I wanted to enlist was for college, as my father's military pay didn't cut it. My recruiters always had little functions for their potential recruits. I went to school with many of them. Excluding one, none of us were signing up to defend freedom, protect oil, spread democracy, stop genocide, overthrow governments, etc. We wanted to join for college money, for a paycheck (hence "job"), to escape poverty, or maybe just for some direction.

Yes they enlist expecting to defend our Constitution, foreign and domestic. This administration treats our constitution as toilet paper. I can't find one correlation between our occupation of Iraq and the oath these men and women took when they enlisted. The military should never shrink from their duty, as I don't want the military deciding our foreign policy. Which is why it is imperative for civilians to do THEIR duty and not stand for the bulls#$% (btw is it ok to swear on this board?). Defense of our democracy and freedom is not just the military's job. Without the citizens outcry/support it's just covered up fascism.

and btw, they may just have not known exactly what they were in for. My father spent 2 years as a recruiter. When it came time for me to enlist I was forbidden from talking with my recruiter without my father present. Want to know why? Because my father knew that some will lie and exaggerate to meet their quota. My father hated that job, as while he thought the ARMY was wonderful for him, he didn't think it was for most, and felt the need to tell it like it really was.

Do you mean to tell me that the recruits who have signed up in the last six years since 9/11 didn't know that there was a war going on, and they might have to go to combat?

When Hubby was drafted, and I enlisted, we knew we were joining the military, not just applying for a job. Did I want a regular paycheck and GI Bill benefits? Of course. But I knew I wasn't working a 9-5, M-F job. We joined during the Vietnam war, so it wasn't a "popular" career choice then either.

Regardless of initial motivation, once those papers are signed and the oath is taken, the military member is not just an employee in a big corporation.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

lol, my point was you aren't taking money from war mongers, you are paid by tax payers. No biggie. I didn't like the fact Reba insuated that Bush is king and pays people with his money.

I am sorry that I misinterpret your post in the wrong way. Now I understand clear what you are try to explain...

 

[Reba]

It proves yourself is an ignorant. *shake my head*

You don't work for the U.S. Army?

 

[Reba]

volunteers? It sound not volunteers to me...

None of them were drafted.

 

[Reba]

... I didn't like the fact Reba insuated that Bush is king and pays people with his money.

I never did any such thing. I never even mentioned President Bush.

Leibling works for the U.S. Army. The Army is waging war. She is anti-war. But she accepts money from the U.S. Army Department. Her work helps the U.S. Army wage war. She's against war but her work supports war. She's against war but she profits from it. That's the point.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

http://www.alldeaf.com/war-political-news/13603-images-haunt-soldier-refusing-serve-iraq.html

I don´t blame him either.

 

[akoutsourais]

Do you mean to tell me that the recruits who have signed up in the last six years since 9/11 didn't know that there was a war going on, and they might have to go to combat?

When Hubby was drafted, and I enlisted, we knew we were joining the military, not just applying for a job. Did I want a regular paycheck and GI Bill benefits? Of course. But I knew I wasn't working a 9-5, M-F job. We joined during the Vietnam war, so it wasn't a "popular" career choice then either.

Regardless of initial motivation, once those papers are signed and the oath is taken, the military member is not just an employee in a big corporation.

hmm, maybe you haven't been reading the news. The military isn't doing so well in meeting it goal for new recruits. Which is why you see soldiers on their fourth or fifth deployment, tours being extended, etc.

You are missing my point. I don't believe that the military is doing anything they stated in their oath by occuping Iraq. Also, I stated before that I don't like the idea of soldiers refusing to deploy (though I won't judge them, and hope the military wouldn't want them anyway), because to me that's the military indirectly deciding foreign policy. What I'm saying is, that just because I'm against occupation, killing of innocents (Iraqi, Afghani, and American), etc, does not mean I don't support the troops. It only means I have critical thinking skills to tell the difference between blind patriotism and my part in a real democracy.

Here are some quotes from prominant republicans who back me up. Most of these were in response to Clintons attack on Kosovo

"President Clinton is once again releasing American military might on a foreign country with an ill-defined objective and no exit strategy. He has yet to tell the Congress how much this operation will cost. And he has not informed our nation's armed forces about how long they will be away from home. These strikes do not make for a sound foreign policy."

-Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA)

"No goal, no objective, not until we have those things and a compelling case is made, then I say, back out of it, because innocent people are going to die for nothing. That's why I'm against it."

-Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/5/99

"If we are going to commit American troops, we must be certain they have a clear mission, an achievable goal and an exit strategy."

-Karen Hughes, speaking on behalf of presidential candidate George W. Bush

"I had doubts about the bombing campaign from the beginning...I didn't think we had done enough in the diplomatic area."

-Senator Trent Lott (R-MS)

"You think Vietnam was bad? Vietnam is nothing next to Kosovo."

-Tony Snow, Fox News 3/24/99

"Well, I just think it's a bad idea. What's going to happen is they're going to be over there for 10, 15, maybe 20 years"

-Joe Scarborough (R-FL)

"I cannot support a failed foreign policy. History teaches us that it is often easier to make war than peace. This administration is just learning that lesson right now. The President began this mission with very vague objectives and lots of unanswered questions. A month later, these questions are still unanswered. There are no clarified rules of engagement. There is no timetable. There is no legitimate definition of victory. There is no contingency plan for mission creep. There is no clear funding program. There is no agenda to bolster our overextended military. There is no explanation defining what vital national interests are at stake. There was no strategic plan for war when the President started this thing, and there still is no plan today"

-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)

"Explain to the mothers and fathers of American servicemen that may come home in body bags why their son or daughter have to give up their life?"

-Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/6/99

"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is."

-Governor George W. Bush (R-TX)

"This is President Clinton's war, and when he falls flat on his face, that's his problem."

-Senator Richard Lugar (R-IN)


"My job as majority leader is be supportive of our troops, try to have input as decisions are made and to look at those decisions after they're made ... not to march in lock step with everything the president decides to do."

-Senator Trent Lott (R-MS)

Bombing a sovereign nation for ill-defined reasons with vague objectives undermines the American stature in the world. The international respect and trust for America has diminished every time we casually let the bombs fly."

-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)

"Clinton's bombing campaign has caused all of these problems to explode"

-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)

"These international war criminals were led by Gen. Wesley Clark ... who clicked his shiny heels for the commander-in-grief, Bill Clinton."

-Michael Savage

"This has been an unmitigated disaster ... Ask the Chinese embassy. Ask all the people in Belgrade that we've killed. Ask the refugees that we've killed. Ask the people in nursing homes. Ask the people in hospitals."

-Representative Joe Scarborough (R-FL)

"It is a remarkable spectacle to see the Clinton Administration and NATO taking over from the Soviet Union the role of sponsoring "wars of national liberation."

-Representative Helen Chenoweth (R-ID)

 

[akoutsourais]

I never did any such thing. I never even mentioned President Bush.

Leibling works for the U.S. Army. The Army is waging war. She is anti-war. But she accepts money from the U.S. Army Department. Her work helps the U.S. Army wage war. She's against war but her work supports war. She's against war but she profits from it. That's the point.

You post #16

How can you be anti-war and yet draw a paycheck from what you consider to be warmongers? That doesn't make sense.

Who is the commander in chief?

 

[akoutsourais]

I never did any such thing. I never even mentioned President Bush.

Leibling works for the U.S. Army. The Army is waging war. She is anti-war. But she accepts money from the U.S. Army Department. Her work helps the U.S. Army wage war. She's against war but her work supports war. She's against war but she profits from it. That's the point.

I got your point the first time around.

Yes she does (I'm not sure what she does exactly, clerical is in her profile) in a small way. My nit pick was that she is paid by tax payers, via the US Government. To say she was paid by war mongers, to me, is to say everyone in this country supports this insanity, which day by day, is clearly not the case.

Sorry I will stop the nitpicking.

 

[Reba]

You post #16

How can you be anti-war and yet draw a paycheck from what you consider to be warmongers? That doesn't make sense.

Who is the commander in chief?

That's not the same as saying Bush is "king" or that he pays people with his own money.

Let's be honest; anti-war Leibling makes a living from the people who fight wars.

 

[Reba]

I got your point the first time around.

Yes she does (I'm not sure what she does exactly, clerical is in her profile) in a small way. My nit pick was that she is paid by tax payers, via the US Government. To say she was paid by war mongers, to me, is to say everyone in this country supports this insanity, which day by day, is clearly not the case.

Sorry I will stop the nitpicking.

Sorry, I didn't see this post before I submitted mine. I was composing my post and loading a new hard drive (with all the attendant frustrations) in my other computer at the same time.

I will stop further nitpicking on this one, too.

 

[akoutsourais]

Sorry, I didn't see this post before I submitted mine. I was composing my post and loading a new hard drive (with all the attendant frustrations) in my other computer at the same time.

I will stop further nitpicking on this one, too.

Tis ok. I hope I don't come across as badgering. I like to talk about this, even if we will always disagree and run around each other's points. If I ever seem rude, let me know (though I will probably argue it! ha!), but please know it is never intentional.