Ranting About Overusage of Word: Audism

[Rose Immortal]

I'd like to introduce another line of thought.. something I'm pondering on - Sooner we stop looking to others to decide for us (to avoid being a "failure" if it "didn't" work out), the better we can do to look at ourselves. Leaders are built on a pedestal. But pedestals can be knocked down and the fallen leaders can be made scrapegoats for failures. When we do this to others, we are avoiding self-accountability, IMO. Are we not equals? How do we act like equals? Do others have to give us permission to be equals?

Wow. Those are words of wisdom. You could use those for a LOT of situations, not just this.

 

[Cloggy]

Wow. Those are words of wisdom. You could use those for a LOT of situations, not just this.

I agree... It must be the Buddist background.

There's no road to happiness
Hapiness is the road

 

[Mookie]

O'Gemtun, where art thou?

 

[GalaxyAngel]

No difference.. Out there still labelling them Audist or Audisim and other defination wording..

Still racist part of it anyway..

let them talk!
All everyone are same human beings..
How many fingers and toes, do you have..

Therefore still everyone are same.. BUT.. there's have two world ways.. their choice prefer..
I can't do anything espically I admit , I've been there fusterate alikey.. Hearing people would tend says.. " Uh, err I'm sorry, you're Deaf, um, Can you read lip?" Made me feel alike stall their talking.. Give me a break.. I can do anything more reilable my hand skills and knowlege any kind position. Hearing people's POV thinks "Deaf" can't do anything.. as same thing Audsim/Audist and others.. still counts..

Labelling is PIECE OF SHIT..
Human are beings!

 

[sr171soars]

...
I'd like to introduce another line of thought.. something I'm pondering on - Sooner we stop looking to others to decide for us (to avoid being a "failure" if it "didn't" work out), the better we can do to look at ourselves. Leaders are built on a pedestal. But pedestals can be knocked down and the fallen leaders can be made scrapegoats for failures. When we do this to others, we are avoiding self-accountability, IMO. Are we not equals? How do we act like equals? Do others have to give us permission to be equals?

Indeed! A great observation!!! BTW - This can apply to any human issue.

You bring a brings up what has always irritated me about this whole issue of "deafism". There is far too much group think and very little individualism. Everybody is different and have different issues and needs. No one way is best for everybody. I have been teaching my kids the question "Do you just follow the lemmings who are falling off the cliff?" Of course not! But that is what I see people doing it time and time again.

The first step for anybody is to ask themselves "What works for me?" and go from there. If it is counter to what the "group" would say, so what? You gotta do what you gotta do. Life is far too short to worry about what everybody else thinks. What matters? What you think or what your friends think? If you leave it up to your friends, you will often end where you don't want to be and unhappy at that.

 

[rockdrummer]

Thank you terp for taking the time to explain your position. I am just a blue collar guy that has limited exposure to intelligent people such as yourself. And you are right in what you said. I understand exactly what you mean. I guess at times I like to think there are standards that we will all abide by. Not the case in the real world. *Climbing out of the box*

If this weren't the case there would be no need for comprehension checks in conversation, and everyone would understand each other all the time!

Gee and what a perfect world that would be

Two examples: when I say "It was a challenging day," I mean that I had a lot of difficult but interesting things to do and this was ultimately positive. When someone else I know says it, she means it as a euphemism for "This day kicked my butt." Much different sentiments.

The difference is that my friends would just come out and say that their day sucked.

Another example: the word "Negro." It used to be a politically correct label; now it's not. I knew an older woman who could never stop using it because it felt wrong to her to say "black." And these are both taken from American culture; throw different cultural norms into the mix and you get even more changing and adapting of language. There is just more to language than what's in the dictionary, and even good definitions don't make for perfect communication without exception. Both definitions of "challenging" are probably in the dictionary. That is the case in natural languages like English and ASL

All excellent points but wouldn't you agree in regard to the word audism, there should be some consistancy given the origin of the word and Tom's intent? His definition of audism is the longest most comprehensive definition of any word that I have seen.

 

[Passivist]

I thought the word "deafism" was interesting. Could it be used as audism is used? I've always thought "militant" label divided people, too. Then again, Passivit has a point about labels.

Passivit, how did you overcome the need for labels in uk? I am sure you can give us tips here.

I'd like to introduce another line of thought.. something I'm pondering on - Sooner we stop looking to others to decide for us (to avoid being a "failure" if it "didn't" work out), the better we can do to look at ourselves. Leaders are built on a pedestal. But pedestals can be knocked down and the fallen leaders can be made scrapegoats for failures. When we do this to others, we are avoiding self-accountability, IMO. Are we not equals? How do we act like equals? Do others have to give us permission to be equals?

Overcoing the labels isn't easy ! the adeptness of the activists means he or she can turn around any criticism by suggesting THAT is anti-culture or sign, the murky human rights/access laws are there to be exploited and they are getting better and better at it. Really all you can do is ignore it if faced direct with it, we should all be there and stating look these silly labels do not help us every time we see or read about it. We comment on deaf sites but this is pointless to a degree only deaf come here !

The spin/labels are used to 'educate', and make mainstream 'aware' so THEY are using these labels the activist tells them are correct, a little truth a LOT of hype it works, suggest doubt, let the rest take care of itself, if the silent majority of those with heraing loss weren't so apathetic we would have buried this anti-access stuff years ago, we can't be bothered. The live and let live attitude provides a breeding ground for the weird and wonderful and the plain disaffected. Nobody dares say shut up, because it's the 'Emporor's new clothes' syndrome, better to say nothing he really MIGHT be wearing invisible clothes. Too silly for words, where is that common sense we all once had ?

 

[Interpretrator]

wouldn't you agree in regard to the word audism, there should be some consistancy given the origin of the word and Tom's intent? His definition of audism is the longest most comprehensive definition of any word that I have seen.

I think as someone else pointed out very well earlier in this thread, new words go through a growing period before they settle into their generally accepted meaning. This is especially problematic with words that a) are highly politically/socially charged, and b) are used by a minority of people. Both of these are the case with "audism."

Yes, I have my own opinions about how I'd like to see the word used, but personally I don't think I have either the ability or the right to push for that.

 

[rockdrummer]

I think as someone else pointed out very well earlier in this thread, new words go through a growing period before they settle into their generally accepted meaning. This is especially problematic with words that a) are highly politically/socially charged, and b) are used by a minority of people. Both of these are the case with "audism."

Yes, I have my own opinions about how I'd like to see the word used, but personally I don't think I have either the ability or the right to push for that.

Agreed but why is it that you don't think you have the ability or the right to voice your opinoins or beliefs?. My understanding of audism is that it applies to both hearing and deaf.

 

[Liza]

Overcoing the labels isn't easy ! the adeptness of the activists means he or she can turn around any criticism by suggesting THAT is anti-culture or sign, the murky human rights/access laws are there to be exploited and they are getting better and better at it. Really all you can do is ignore it if faced direct with it, we should all be there and stating look these silly labels do not help us every time we see or read about it. We comment on deaf sites but this is pointless to a degree only deaf come here !

The spin/labels are used to 'educate', and make mainstream 'aware' so THEY are using these labels the activist tells them are correct, a little truth a LOT of hype it works, suggest doubt, let the rest take care of itself, if the silent majority of those with heraing loss weren't so apathetic we would have buried this anti-access stuff years ago, we can't be bothered. The live and let live attitude provides a breeding ground for the weird and wonderful and the plain disaffected. Nobody dares say shut up, because it's the 'Emporor's new clothes' syndrome, better to say nothing he really MIGHT be wearing invisible clothes. Too silly for words, where is that common sense we all once had ?

Passivit, your "Emperor's new clothes syndrome" mention reminds me of a passage:

Believe nothing just because a so-called wise person said it. Believe nothing just because a belief is generally held. Believe nothing just because it is said in ancient books. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin. Believe nothing just because someone else believes it. Believe only what you yourself test and judge to be true. -Buddha

I do believe that we can ignore aftementioned labelling, but I think some situations call for confrontations such as this thread.. it is really a guise of opportunity for change, methinks. I'm all for people deciding for themselves after this point

I don't mind disagreements, really. My real beef is with the way people try to "impose" ideas on another through manipulation, and this certainly covers this area. I think to myself, "WTF? This person can't trust me to think for myself?" Then again, I have to constantly remind myself that only I give myself permission to do so.. no one else can do that, and *cross-H me if I put myself at mercy of others just for that!

Unfortunately, this sort of dividing 'n conquering tactic exists everywhere.. on both sides of the fence. Fortunately, I am an optimist.. so anything is possible, and I believe that.

Ah, what's the matter with giving old fashioned trust? Just share your beliefs and ideas with the tube feeding device, and get outta there?

*For those who are not familiar with ASL: cross-H, you make a cross with "H" = sign in ASL meaning you're in trouble.

 

[Liza]

Wow. Those are words of wisdom. You could use those for a LOT of situations, not just this.

Thanks.. but I have to confess that this old girl has been in hot water enough times to learn something!

I agree... It must be the Buddist background.

Hi Cloggy! Thanks for the compliment.. but I am not a Buddhist. I just borrowed a few ideas to build that foundation with. All this conscious development gotta start somewhere else.

 

[Liza]

No difference.. Out there still labelling them Audist or Audisim and other defination wording..

Still racist part of it anyway..

let them talk!
All everyone are same human beings..
How many fingers and toes, do you have..

Therefore still everyone are same.. BUT.. there's have two world ways.. their choice prefer..
I can't do anything espically I admit , I've been there fusterate alikey.. Hearing people would tend says.. " Uh, err I'm sorry, you're Deaf, um, Can you read lip?" Made me feel alike stall their talking.. Give me a break.. I can do anything more reilable my hand skills and knowlege any kind position. Hearing people's POV thinks "Deaf" can't do anything.. as same thing Audsim/Audist and others.. still counts..

Labelling is PIECE OF SHIT..
Human are beings!

LOL. I know what you mean.

I know it seems like too many people adopt the same ignorant behavior.. and that it might seem too complicated to work on one person at a time... but IMO I think it is more efficient to hold an individual accountable.. I guess we sure can have different ideas about holding individuals accountable. LOL.

I'd rather use the humorous and gentle approach, being one of those ideas. I think people tend to pay more attention to that.. and it feels good to me.

For example, in Norway, I won over my old co workers and supervisors.. even though they might have made some faux pas with me regarding my deafness in the beginning. My supervisors were deathly afraid of dealing with a deaf person.. much less a foreigner... but the tension went away when I defused it with humor and understanding of the situation or tasks... I knew they did not have ill intents. I just need a chance to prove myself. The humor is just to distract 'em while I prove myself.. When they have regained their senses, they will go WTF... something certainly has changed.. and then adjust beliefs accordingly

As a result, my old supervisor has given me a glowing reference, and even went to a meeting in person with VR (Cloggy-aetat) for me. I was utterly touched by that gesture. What would I have accomplished with crying audism in this supervisor's face? I had a chance to educate him and others in the old workplace properly.. to hang them for audism would not have accomplished anything beyond alienating everyone.. IMO. It's more of a give 'n take thing, this one?

I remember this movie.. "Pay It Forward".. when this little boy did wonderful deeds, and encouraged others to pay it forward.. he was just one little kid, but he had a profound impact on everyone he met in his life. These people are paying it forward, and the number increases more and more. I like that concept.

I speak for myself though I imagine everyone's experience'd be different, and I respect that.

 

[Rose Immortal]

Thanks.. but I have to confess that this old girl has been in hot water enough times to learn something!

But you learned something. Some people don't. One definition of insanity: Repeating the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

 

[ismi]

*For those who are not familiar with ASL: cross-H, you make a cross with "H" = sign in ASL meaning you're in trouble.

Make a cross as if crossing yourself in the Catholic style?

That's my favorite sutta, by the way.

 

[Tousi]

Make a cross as if crossing yourself in the Catholic style?

That's my favorite sutta, by the way.

No, that's not the way it's signed, at least for the meaning Lisa was trying to convey. The "H" handshape is extended outward toward the person your'e conveying the message to and then, while extended, make a sign of the cross.

 

[Interpretrator]

Agreed but why is it that you don't think you have the ability or the right to voice your opinoins or beliefs?. My understanding of audism is that it applies to both hearing and deaf.

A few reasons. One is that, being an interpreter, I really try my best to remain neutral on highly charged topics. Even if I have an opinion -- for example, on cochlear implants -- I don't think it's appropriate for me to come down strongly on one side or the other because it may cause a barrier between me and my client. I TRY to practice this on AD as well but it doesn't always work!

Another reason is what I said about language earlier, meaning that I think it's largely out of anyone's control what happens to the word in practice.

Another reason is that I don't feel qualified to take a strong stand on things that greatly affect a historically oppressed minority that I am not a part of -- even though I might be a member of one or more other historically oppressed minority groups. (And the term "historically oppressed" does NOT mean the group is not currently oppressed.) Yes, the debate includes hearing people, but there are aspects that come from a place I can't even imagine. Since I don't come to this debate with that kind of knowledge, I don't feel it's fair for me to make judgments. I try to understand what's happening, and I have my own preferences as far as the use of certain words, but I'd rather leave the debate to others. That just goes for me; I don't hold everyone to this by any means.

 

[Passivist]

A few reasons. One is that, being an interpreter, I really try my best to remain neutral on highly charged topics. Even if I have an opinion -- for example, on cochlear implants -- I don't think it's appropriate for me to come down strongly on one side or the other because it may cause a barrier between me and my client. I TRY to practice this on AD as well but it doesn't always work!

Another reason is what I said about language earlier, meaning that I think it's largely out of anyone's control what happens to the word in practice.

Another reason is that I don't feel qualified to take a strong stand on things that greatly affect a historically oppressed minority that I am not a part of -- even though I might be a member of one or more other historically oppressed minority groups. (And the term "historically oppressed" does NOT mean the group is not currently oppressed.) Yes, the debate includes hearing people, but there are aspects that come from a place I can't even imagine. Since I don't come to this debate with that kind of knowledge, I don't feel it's fair for me to make judgments. I try to understand what's happening, and I have my own preferences as far as the use of certain words, but I'd rather leave the debate to others. That just goes for me; I don't hold everyone to this by any means.

Most I think do not belong to a group 'historically oppressed', this pre-assumes everyone was born with deafness, or lived within a deaf community, most didn't, there wasn't one. Discrimination does go on, but nowhere near 100s of years ago. I find the constant harking back to the past isn't helping us now, and not relevant to issues we face now, which are vastly different. Discrimination will ALWAYS exist to use a poor cliche' "One man's meat is another man's poison", and that will always be the case, so we must accept what we cannot change, i.e. a basic (If irrational), gut feeling.

Even deaf people do this, accept some people dislike or refuse to bother with others (e.g. oralists/aid users/CI implantees !). Is that discrimination ? do oralists not have rights ? hearing people ? etc. The problem when you invent new words, is they do the rounds, and people being what they are willuse them as they see fit, 'Deafies and Audists', now are used as a term/label of abuse against most who perhaps do not support a particular language or lifestyle, once these words are 'out there' tthe makers of them lose control of them. Both words used suggest everyone is against the ASL/BSLuser that's my gripe, it's not true, and provides avenues for argument and more division, just be who you are.

They said the British were riddled with class structures/pecking orders and labelling everyone, America isn't free if it either is it ? as many black people will testify, let's just aceept each other as individuals and leave the lables where they are, we don't need them.

 

[Sweetmind]

"Deaf is no good" "ASL is no good" "Deaf cant cant cant" "Deaf must do what people want them to do in their hearing ways" So what is that all about? Dont you realize it works for Deaf children to gain their intellectual skills and social skills from the beginning of life? Give them a chance and be ourselves as a Deaf people.. Why cant we being ourselves from the start? it s always something that goes for hearing people before us Deaf people s need while it s our true language and Deaf languages from all over Deaf community in this Diversity World. We are not allowed to be deaf or show our hands, It is a real language. That works so well for us thats why we welcome hearing people to sign also with our gift of appreciation we are welcoming them with open arms and it is the opposite with the hearing community..we are only welcomed if we Speak or Hear. That, I feel, is very degrading and thoughtless. Why does it have to be that way...why cant this problem be solved? We are not accepted as we are to this day with both sides...why? I like both deaf and hearing, whom I always support to enter into the deaf community...deaf audist and hearing audists are fighting with us...why? they act like deaf people are inferior. Are you ashamed of yourself? Well I am NOT.

As for you passivist -- as far as I know you are latened deaf and refused to understand where we are coming from. Why cant you just say you are the latened deaf? That s why i hate this term of Hearing Impaired because it gives people the wrong impression about all deafies who can hear because you were the former hearing and have already established a language and know what to listen the incomprehension words or sentences. Whats more! You cannot compare between Latened and born deaf or become deaf at one or two or three years old.

Are we being punished for being deaf that we have to or must speak and hear for their sakes so we can accepted by audism people in hearing community. Scoffs!

AND I was a deaf oralist if you mind! I finally woke up and realized how dare people tried so hard to change me for not who I am all those years that I couldnt figure it out why am I being so miserable and struggle in hearing community? JEEZ! I m not the one who blamed for it and can feel my pain and Deafies pains that relates to be destroy by audism people. They have no respect for any deafies who cannot hear everything.. JEEZ!!!

Listen and change your attitude!

Thank you!
Sweetmind

 

[Liza]

Sweetmind, only you can give yourself permission to be an equal.. no one can do that for you. You ARE an equal. We all are. I don't want to change you or to be responsible for you, nor do I want you to be responsible for me either.

 

[Passivist]

Sweetmind, only you can give yourself permission to be an equal.. no one can do that for you. You ARE an equal. We all are. I don't want to change you or to be responsible for you, nor do I want you to be responsible for me either.

Exactly, it's not where you're coming from, but where you're heading, and how.