Parants of CI children.

[shel90]

You need to read my post history, dreama, before you make assumptions. I am proficient in sign language. I actually learned ASL before I ever learned to speak. When I speak of the exceptions out there, I refer to children who have succeeded beyond everyone's expectations instead of subjecting them to standards just because it's documented standards.



I just about fell out of my chair when reading that bolded statement about the girl turning to prostitution. Her turning to prostitution has nothing to do with her being oral. I think you owe an apology to all those on this forum and worldwide who are oral. I guess if I get fired from my job for whatever reason I can turn to prositution because I had an oral environment in addition to sign.

What about the numerous deaf children who suffer from language delays or worse evn, language deficients due to not having full access to language and communication during their younger years? All because those in the medical field told their parents not to expose them to sign language?

I only want children to have both..oral and ASL just like Dreama said. I would never agree to the oral-only philosophy cuz of these kinds of risks. Sure their are exceptions but while they are young, nobody really knows how much they r getting.

Another issue is deaf children havign equal access to as their hearing counterparts in the educational setting. That was a big problem for me...all the sake for oral-only.

That's my view and I feel entitled to it and if others don't like it, oh well. I would be lying just to please people here.

Not trying to argue with u here but u mentioned exceptions.

 

[AlleyCat]

What about the numerous deaf children who suffer from language delays or worse evn, language deficients due to not having full access to language and communication during their younger years? All because those in the medical field told their parents not to expose them to sign language?

I only want children to have both..oral and ASL just like Dreama said. I would never agree to the oral-only philosophy cuz of these kinds of risks. Sure their are exceptions but while they are young, nobody really knows how much they r getting.

Another issue is deaf children havign equal access to as their hearing counterparts in the educational setting. That was a big problem for me...all the sake for oral-only.

That's my view and I feel entitled to it and if others don't like it, oh well. I would be lying just to please people here.

Not trying to argue with u here but u mentioned exceptions.

And I understand your point. Of course there will always be children who were deprived of things that could have made their education easier and, hopefully better. What I take issue with is that some parents do try to provide their children with options and they don't always work out for different reasons. Your statement: "All because those in the medical field told their parents not to expose them to sign language?" certainly can be true, I'm not disputing that at all. But take Rick for example -- it wasn't the medical field that told him not to expose his daughter to sign. He and his wife tried. Why has he been totally done over just because his daughter grew up oral? It wasn't for lack of effort on his part.

 

[dreama]

I just about fell out of my chair when reading that bolded statement about the girl turning to prostitution. Her turning to prostitution has nothing to do with her being oral. I think you owe an apology to all those on this forum and worldwide who are oral. I guess if I get fired from my job for whatever reason I can turn to prositution because I had an oral environment in addition to sign.

Sorry, I don't need to appologies to anyone. Tracy was a girl who could speak (so she was paraded as an oral success) but could she couldn't exactly understand what went round her. She wasn't getting equal access. So in her case I'm afraid it was due to her upbringing.

What do I need to apologies for? My point was not that their weren't oral successes. The point I wanted to make is that SOME oral successes aren't exactly successful beyond their parrot like ability to speak.

 

[AlleyCat]

I can speak, yet I can't understand what goes on around me. I didn't get equal access either. Yet I'm not a prostitute. And .. "parrotlike ability to speak." Wow. I'm speechless.

And with that I bow out of this because anything more I say could get me in trouble, and I don't want to appear redundant, either.

 

[vallee]

I can speak, yet I can't understand what goes on around me. I didn't get equal access either. Yet I'm not a prostitute. And .. "parrotlike ability to speak." Wow. I'm speechless.

And with that I bow out of this because anything more I say could get me in trouble, and I don't want to appear redundant, either.

I shake my head as well. Oh well

 

[dreama]

Why does mentioning my orally taught friend bother people so much?

Stories about people like T do need to come out though. Since there is an assumsion that parents that choose to bring their children up like that do it with the best intention. Take it from me T did NOT grow up in a very healthy environment. Probably why she turned to prostitution.

BUT she WAS paraded as an oral success though.

I also had another friend who was deafblind. I met her at college. The college chose to communicate manually with K using deafblind manual and a few visual signs. It made it easier for K. It made it easier for them. Her father was furious.

 

[dreama]

"Parrot like ability to speak" means you can talk but you really don't understand much. It can mislead people into thinking you are understanding more then you actually do.

I would think that could be dangerous. A lot more dangerous in fact then not knowing speech at all.

 

[shel90]

I can speak, yet I can't understand what goes on around me. I didn't get equal access either. Yet I'm not a prostitute. And .. "parrotlike ability to speak." Wow. I'm speechless.

And with that I bow out of this because anything more I say could get me in trouble, and I don't want to appear redundant, either.

U were very very lucky to have ASL growing up. At least you had equal access to language and communication at times while I, on the other hand, had none. It was a struggle to keep my head above water 24/7 trying to understand what was going on around me especially in the educational setting. That nearly ruined my self-esteem because I felt I wasnt as worthy as my hearing peers due to being constantly measured against them and falling short.

 

[dreama]

I, on the other hand, had none. It was a struggle to keep my head above water 24/7 trying to understand what was going on around me especially in the educational setting. That nearly ruined my self-esteem because I felt I wasnt as worthy as my hearing peers due to being constantly measured against them and falling short.

Same here. Do you know what I mean about 'parrot like speech'. I was meaning when some orally taught deaf can speak without having very good comprehensive skills. Only I seemed to have caused offense without meaning to. I've never been much good at mincing my words.

 

[deafdyke]

*pounds head against computer screen*
No, we're not criticizing the way you raised your child, at ALL.
It's great that things worked out and you got a kid who just needed minimal accomondations to thrive, and didn't even have social issues. That's impressive, especially for someone who was "first generation" CI.
If ALL kids got those results from oral only and mainstreaming, we wouldn't even say anything. However, what you don't seem to realize is that only a very small percentage of dhh kids ever do as well as your daughter. If I recall correctly, she never even had time in the resource room or social problems. (two issues that are very commonly seen with mainstreamed and/or oral kids)
It's great that she's done so well..............but I mean the question is whether her experiance was typical? You know back in the '60's there was a deaf kid who spoke seven languages, who'd been trained via AVT. They used him to "prove" that AVT was THE answer that would let dhh kids suceed in the hearing world. Since most dhh kids back then didn't learn to speak seven language, that conclusion is rather. " jump to conclusion" ish. I really do think that if your experiance with your daughter had been slightly different, you would be 100% agreeing with us that AG Bell doesn't understand and that mainstreaming and oral only has a ton of downsides.
I really think you also don't understand that shel I and many other people who are noting the downsides of oral only and mainstreaing aren't radical anti-oral Deafie seperatists who think that kids shouldn't have speech training or should be sent away from their parents to a Deaf School. We are actally REAL LIVE Deaf people who actually *gasp* experianced the downsides of oral only and mainstreaming. You know, MOST Deaf people since 1974 HAVE been mainstreamed. Oral only also isn't new. It's been around for years and years.....and there have ALWAYS been superstars who have little to no need for accomondations etc.
I never saw where rick said that he started out with a full toolbox approach.
From what I understood, he started out with oral only, but wasn't opposed to Sign if oral only didn't work. That isn't quite the full toolbox approach. Like I FULLY support it when parents go with a full toolbox approach early on.If the kid decides that they don''t want to use ASL as a tool.....that's AWESOME!!! It was their choice.

 

[Hear Again]

Oral education = prostitution? :roll:

 

[rockdrummer]

...............A girl I know at school was paraded as an oral success as she was HOH and orally taught. She later turned to prostitution. I'm not saying ALL oral successes do that but it does happen.

I am at a loss for words if you are suggesting that one has something to do with the other. You can't be serious.

 

[dreama]

I am at a loss for words too. Why does my story offend you so much anyway.

The girl was from a really bad back ground so she should have been incouraged to go to a residental school just to get her out of that environment. Only that's not what happened. The unit cared more about parading her as an oral 'success' then it did about her welfare.

 

[Hear Again]

I am at a loss for words too. Why does my story offend you so much anyway.

The girl was from a really bad back ground so she should have been incouraged to go to a residental school just to get her out of that environment. Only that's not what happened. The unit cared more about parading her as an oral 'success' then it did about her welfare.

that has nothing to do with the fact that SHE chose prostitution.

i experienced 4 traumas from age 7-18 including having my life threatened at knifepoint when i was 9.

does that give me the right to become a prostitute? i think not.

 

[AlleyCat]

Exactly, HA. Dreama added later "I'm afraid it was due to her upbringing" and "did NOT grow up in a very healthy environment" and "the girl was from a really bad background". None of that has to do with her being a prostitute because she's oral. Just a pathetic attempt to slander anyone who is oral, which is why I said she owes an apology to those who were raised orally.

 

[Bottesini]

Exactly, HA. Dreama added later "I'm afraid it was due to her upbringing" and "did NOT grow up in a very healthy environment" and "the girl was from a really bad background". None of that has to do with her being a prostitute because she's oral. Just a pathetic attempt to slander anyone who is oral, which is why I said she owes an apology to those who were raised orally.

Well, you have to admit it is more creative than the people who just say we are stuck up and give ourselves airs! :P

 

[AlleyCat]

Well, you have to admit it is more creative than the people who just say we are stuck up and give ourselves airs! :P

Very true.

 

[shel90]

Nobody really knows..maybe in that girl's case it was the pressures of being oral and having to be put on a hearing pedestal only to fall short. It could lead to emotional problems which could lead to going down a destructive path. We don't really know.

 

[Hear Again]

Exactly, HA. Dreama added later "I'm afraid it was due to her upbringing" and "did NOT grow up in a very healthy environment" and "the girl was from a really bad background". None of that has to do with her being a prostitute because she's oral. Just a pathetic attempt to slander anyone who is oral, which is why I said she owes an apology to those who were raised orally.

i agree. i think dreama owes the rest of us an apology too, but i'm guessing we're not going to get one. oh well.

by the way bott, i agree with you as well.

shel: we may not know the intent or detailed background of this person, but it seems to be an awful stretch that she would choose prostitution just because she was raised oral. i grew up totally blind, i lost my hearing by age 24, i lost my first guide dog, my father, a sister, my mother, a best friend and another good friend in the span of 4 years. i was also sexually, physically and emotionally abused by my parents from age 7-18 which odesn't even count my life being threatened by a stranger. given all of that, you don't see me selling myself on main street because of the traumas i experienced.

using the excuse of being raised orally is just that -- an excuse -- and a poor one at that.

i'm sorry if that offends anyone, but it's the way i feel.

if anyone disagrees with me, that's fine, but i honestly do not see where this person takes the giant leap from being educated orally to becoming a prostitute. there must have been other factors combined with anything else she was dealing with throughout her life that contributed to her poor self-esteem and decision making.

 

[shel90]

Hear again, u are entitled to your opinion.

For me, I can't say never never cuz we don't know this person. It could be due to being raised in an oral-only environent, it could be due to other factors, or both of them combined.

I don't know and I don't think anyone else does either.