Parants of CI children.

[AlleyCat]

I have to say that being bitter isn't the impression I've picked up from Rick. He's been talking about his experiences with his daughter, and they seem positive. We've said time and time again that everyone has had different experiences being deaf.

 

[AlleyCat]

And yes, I am deaf. I am not advocating any specific person here or specific experiences. Just stating my perspective on what's been posted here.

 

[Hear Again]

Yes, rick.........You don't understand that most Deaf people are very pro-full toolbox. Yes, there's anti CI and anti HA extremisim.........but in years of posting here, HOW many times have you actually encountered one of those stereotypical extremists? You're just so bitter about the experiance you had back then, that you've chosen to paint us all with the same brush!

Your post was uncalled for DD. Rick is not at all bitter about anything that has happened to him in his past and only wants to do what is right for his daughter.

Rick, I apologize for speaking on your behalf, but I felt it needed to be said.

 

[flip]

And many who have benefited from AGB would say the same about your comment.

The problem is that very few deaf people have benefited from AG Bell. AG Bell is dealing hope to parents, and I am not sure if this group, parents addicted to hope, really is benefiting from the "help" from AG Bell either.

Rick is here.. hope this thread survives more than ten more posts.

 

[shel90]

Your post was uncalled for DD. Rick is not at all bitter about anything that has happened to him in his past and only wants to do what is right for his daughter.

Rick, I apologize for speaking on your behalf, but I felt it needed to be said.

Then why the personal insults to anyone who doesn't support the ideology behond AGBell? Seems to me that between the lines there is some bitterness. If it is not that, then I don't know what else it could be. I think he is bitter towards ASL and the Deaf community. If he feels that way, that's his right but to continue to throw insults at people who didn't say anything about him personally is uncalled for.

 

[Hear Again]

Then why the personal insults to anyone who doesn't support the ideology behond AGBell? Seems to me that between the lines there is some bitterness. If it is not that, then I don't know what else it could be. I think he is bitter towards ASL and the Deaf community. If he feels that way, that's his right but to continue to throw insults at people who didn't say anything about him personally is uncalled for.

shel,

I'm not going to flame another ADer either way. I thought DD's post was inappropriate and told her so.

 

[deafdyke]

Then why the personal insults to anyone who doesn't support the ideology behond AGBell? Seems to me that between the lines there is some bitterness. If it is not that, then I don't know what else it could be. I think he is bitter towards ASL and the Deaf community. If he feels that way, that's his right but to continue to throw insults at people who didn't say anything about him personally is uncalled for.

Thank you shel! Yes, it's great that rick's daughter had such a positive experiance oral only and mainstreamed...........However, he really doesn't seem to realize that the singlar of data isn't personal experiance/ancedote. I know in the past he has expressed that he had some bad experiances with some Deaf extremists, back when he and his wife were deciding whether or not to implant their daughter. That was THEN. That was almost pretty much a totally different time back then. Now even many Deaf people are getting CIs....Look how many Deafies here are getting them!
He also seems to take a really extreme view of Deaf people in general.
The extremists do not represent the majority of us Deaf people. It doesn't surprise me that he thinks the way he does, since it's a very common view held by a lot of AG Bell members....

 

[rick48]

Hear Again and Alley cat,

Thanks for your kind words and you said it much better than I could!

Its funny how I keep being constantly told by the same 3-4 people that I don't get it when it comes to understanding and raising a deaf child but yet my wife and I raised a beautiful deaf daughter who is not only a college graduate, but did so in four years and who is on the Dean's list. She is off to Grad School in the fall. More importantly, she has and has always had both hearing and deaf friends. She has a great positive self image and outlook on life and a loving and supportive family. Btw everyone of her uncles, aunts, cousins and grandparents traveled, by plane and car to her college graduation.

As we sat at her graduation, my wife and I reflected on the long and wonderful journey that led us to that day and the help, love and support we received from those wonderful deaf people who took us in under their wings when we were just starting our journey. They are the real deaf community that we have been so fortunate to know and to share our experiences with (OMG I ended a sentence with a preposition!).

Bitter, at what, about what? That we raised a beautiful daughter who is living and loving proof that there are many ways to raise any child, even a deaf one.

But I would not be completely honest if I did not write that I still get sardonic satisfaction from tweaking the likes of Jillio, shel, flippy and dd as I know what to write that elicits the expected Pavlovian response from each of them. I will not be around much in the future as they have succeeded in driving off virtually every parent who does not subscribe to their rigid belief of how a deaf child should be raised but I will still be lurking to assist any unsuspecting parent who stumbles upon this forum and is looking for help.
Thank you so much.
Rick

 

[shel90]

Hear Again and Alley cat,

Thanks for your kind words and you said it much better than I could!

Its funny how I keep being constantly told by the same 3-4 people that I don't get it when it comes to understanding and raising a deaf child but yet my wife and I raised a beautiful deaf daughter who is not only a college graduate, but did so in four years and who is on the Dean's list. She is off to Grad School in the fall. More importantly, she has and has always had both hearing and deaf friends. She has a great positive self image and outlook on life and a loving and supportive family. Btw everyone of her uncles, aunts, cousins and grandparents traveled, by plane and car to her college graduation.

As we sat at her graduation, my wife and I reflected on the long and wonderful journey that led us to that day and the help, love and support we received from those wonderful deaf people who took us in under their wings when we were just starting our journey. They are the real deaf community that we have been so fortunate to know and to share our experiences with (OMG I ended a sentence with a preposition!).

Bitter, at what, about what? That we raised a beautiful daughter who is living and loving proof that there are many ways to raise any child, even a deaf one.

But I would not be completely honest if I did not write that I still get sardonic satisfaction from tweaking the likes of Jillio, shel, flippy and dd as I know what to write that elicits the expected Pavlovian response from each of them. I will not be around much in the future as they have succeeded in driving off virtually every parent who does not subscribe to their rigid belief of how a deaf child should be raised but I will still be lurking to assist any unsuspecting parent who stumbles upon this forum and is looking for help.
Thank you so much.
Rick

U are the one who threw insults at me for having an opinion of an organization. I am entitled to have my opinion just as you are but I dont throw insults at you for your hatred against the Deaf community.

You refuse to take responsibility for them. That's the problem.

 

[loml]

Rick - Life is interesting isn't it! Being a nurturing parent is the hardest job in the world!

Congratulations to your daughter on all that she has accomplished, thus far. I wish her every success as she continues on her life journey.

Cheers!

 

[jillio]

Hear Again and Alley cat,

Thanks for your kind words and you said it much better than I could!

Its funny how I keep being constantly told by the same 3-4 people that I don't get it when it comes to understanding and raising a deaf child but yet my wife and I raised a beautiful deaf daughter who is not only a college graduate, but did so in four years and who is on the Dean's list. She is off to Grad School in the fall. More importantly, she has and has always had both hearing and deaf friends. She has a great positive self image and outlook on life and a loving and supportive family. Btw everyone of her uncles, aunts, cousins and grandparents traveled, by plane and car to her college graduation.

As we sat at her graduation, my wife and I reflected on the long and wonderful journey that led us to that day and the help, love and support we received from those wonderful deaf people who took us in under their wings when we were just starting our journey. They are the real deaf community that we have been so fortunate to know and to share our experiences with (OMG I ended a sentence with a preposition!).

Bitter, at what, about what? That we raised a beautiful daughter who is living and loving proof that there are many ways to raise any child, even a deaf one.

But I would not be completely honest if I did not write that I still get sardonic satisfaction from tweaking the likes of Jillio, shel, flippy and dd as I know what to write that elicits the expected Pavlovian response from each of them. I will not be around much in the future as they have succeeded in driving off virtually every parent who does not subscribe to their rigid belief of how a deaf child should be raised but I will still be lurking to assist any unsuspecting parent who stumbles upon this forum and is looking for help.
Thank you so much.
Rick

Good for you. You raised a beautiful daughter. I raised a handsome son. He is every bit as successful as is your daughter.

The point is, what is being done to insure that the rest of the deaf kids in society have the same opportunity for success and happiness? This isn't about your daughter or my son. This is about the deaf children collectively in our educational system today, and what is being done for them.

"Lurking." How courageous of you.:roll: Your credibility would be so much more if you would stop lurking and jumping out to make unwarranted attacks, and run back to lurking. Be up front. Be honest. Be hard working on behalf of deaf children everywhere. Stop resting on your self decorated laurels of having raised one deaf child, and do something worthwhile for deaf children all over. Step outside that little box of yours and risk gaining some experience that is different from your own. Given your reluctance to accept that the deaf/Deaf community knows better than do you, or any other hearing person, what their needs are, I doubt that you will ever have the courage to take that risk. You would have to question your own sense of superiority as a hearing man in order to do it. And we all know that you hold onto that like a pit bull holds onto a bone.

 

[flip]

But I would not be completely honest if I did not write that I still get sardonic satisfaction from tweaking the likes of Jillio, shel, flippy and dd as I know what to write that elicits the expected Pavlovian response from each of them. I will not be around much in the future as they have succeeded in driving off virtually every parent who does not subscribe to their rigid belief of how a deaf child should be raised but I will still be lurking to assist any unsuspecting parent who stumbles upon this forum and is looking for help.
Thank you so much.
Rick

It's great news you will be lurking behind the bush, jumping in occasionally so we all can do close up studies of an real audist.

 

[jillio]

It's great news you will be lurking behind the bush, jumping in occasionally so we all can do close up studies of an real audist.

The way of the coward.

 

[dreama]

But I would not be completely honest if I did not write that I still get sardonic satisfaction from tweaking the likes of Jillio, shel, flippy and dd

You forgot to mention Dreama... I'm for a BiBi aproach too.

you should really listen to Shel. She's Been there. She teaches the oral reject so whilst you only know 1 oral success story and a lot of hearsay. She actually has valueble personal experience on a daily bases of what can and does go wrong. She isn't anti CI. She's anti oral only because she knows first hand what damage it can do.

 

[AlleyCat]

you should really listen to Shel. She's Been there. She teaches the oral reject so whilst you only know 1 oral success story and a lot of hearsay. She actually has valueble personal experience on a daily bases of what can and does go wrong. She isn't anti CI. She's anti oral only because she knows first hand what damage it can do.

It feels like I'm siding with Rick here, and that's not what I'm trying to do in what I'm about to say, but I do want to say this: Rick has said before that he and his wife tried to teach their daughter sign language when they realized she was deaf. It wasn't a "my daughter's going to be an oral-only, NO sign language" plan. However, his daughter was not interested in sign language. You can't blame Rick for that.

I will stand by statements I've made in the past that I love to see the full toolbox approach when it is appropriate and can be used, but there are always exceptions. I was just thinking about this last night -- I am part of a very, very large deaf community here in my home state. Many deaf people I can call my close friends, and many I call acquaintances that I've run into over all my 38 years of being deaf. And for the many (I'm literally talking about hundreds, it's that large here) deaf friends and acquaintances, I see an unbelievable number of exceptions. Should we all be subjected to following certain standards just because they're there? Then exceptions like me wouldn't happen.

 

[rockdrummer]

It feels like I'm siding with Rick here, and that's not what I'm trying to do in what I'm about to say, but I do want to say this: Rick has said before that he and his wife tried to teach their daughter sign language when they realized she was deaf. It wasn't a "my daughter's going to be an oral-only, NO sign language" plan. However, his daughter was not interested in sign language. You can't blame Rick for that.

I will stand by statements I've made in the past that I love to see the full toolbox approach when it is appropriate and can be used, but there are always exceptions. I was just thinking about this last night -- I am part of a very, very large deaf community here in my home state. Many deaf people I can call my close friends, and many I call acquaintances that I've run into over all my 38 years of being deaf. And for the many (I'm literally talking about hundreds, it's that large here) deaf friends and acquaintances, I see an unbelievable number of exceptions. Should we all be subjected to following certain standards just because they're there? Then exceptions like me wouldn't happen.

Outstanding point Allycat. I have said this many times. You can not ignore the success stories and if you are paying attention, you will see they come from various approaches.

 

[dreama]

It feels like I'm siding with Rick here, and that's not what I'm trying to do in what I'm about to say, but I do want to say this: Rick has said before that he and his wife tried to teach their daughter sign language when they realized she was deaf. It wasn't a "my daughter's going to be an oral-only, NO sign language" plan. However, his daughter was not interested in sign language. You can't blame Rick for that.

I will stand by statements I've made in the past that I love to see the full toolbox approach when it is appropriate and can be used, but there are always exceptions. I was just thinking about this last night -- I am part of a very, very large deaf community here in my home state. Many deaf people I can call my close friends, and many I call acquaintances that I've run into over all my 38 years of being deaf. And for the many (I'm literally talking about hundreds, it's that large here) deaf friends and acquaintances, I see an unbelievable number of exceptions. Should we all be subjected to following certain standards just because they're there? Then exceptions like me wouldn't happen.

But you were exposed to Both sign language and oral. You chose oral. But you had both to choose from. That's all I want for any child. Not that they should not have speech if that's what they want. But that they should be offered both. They should be given that choice.

That was something that wasn't offered to me. I didn't have signing. I have to learn signing without sight after years of being told signing without sight wasn't possible (I do tactile signing).

I'm sure there are oral successes but the fact is there are still children who are DENIED sign language. This is what I want to stop from happening. Everyone needs exposure to signing. Not as a last resort if oral fails but as in baby signs. They should be continued as long as they are needed. Until the child is old enough to decide. (Speech can also be dropped in favor of pen and paper when the child is older too) That's what I believe should be done.

Rick seems to advocate for oral only. While we shouldn't be bashing parents, you need to understand what it was like for some of us to be denied signing altogether and not have our needs met. So when parents come and advocate oral only we see red. you really have to esperience going into classes where you can't understand a word the teacher is saying. Of being punished for something without having any idea what you are being punished for. Due to lack of communication. That's the kind of thing I'm against.

 

[dreama]

Outstanding point Allycat. I have said this many times. You can not ignore the success stories and if you are paying attention, you will see they come from various approaches.

Never said they weren't there.
I think one of the problem is that differant people have differant definitions of oral. And differant definitions of successes. And it's the internet so we don't have to believe everything we read as gospel.

A girl I know at school was paraded as an oral success as she was HOH and orally taught. She later turned to prostitution. I'm not saying ALL oral successes do that but it does happen.

I think people's problem isn't with successes so much. It's the failures that make people feel the way they do about oralism. The oral first and signing if that fails aproach creates people without language.

As I said before. Omitting sign language is like going sailing without a life jacket. It doesn't stop you from enjoying sailing but if you aren't wearing one and the boat keels over then you could drown if you aren't wearing a life jacket.

Same thing with communication needs. You give your child everything and then things can start being dropped when they are older but all componanats (signing, oral, literature) should be there at the beginning.

That way there will be no more drowning children who cannot communicate because they failed with speech, but don't have any other communication method to fall back on.

 

[shel90]

All this started because I expressed a disain for the philisophy behind the AGBell organization. I feel I am entitled to my feelings and opinions about it and I know not everyone is gonna like it but does that mean I deserve personal insults thrown at me? :roll:

U said it well, Dreama. Thanks

 

[AlleyCat]

But you were exposed to Both sign language and oral. You chose oral. But you had both to choose from. That's all I want for any child. Not that they should not have speech if that's what they want. But that they should be offered both. They should be given that choice..

You need to read my post history, dreama, before you make assumptions. I am proficient in sign language. I actually learned ASL before I ever learned to speak. When I speak of the exceptions out there, I refer to children who have succeeded beyond everyone's expectations instead of subjecting them to standards just because it's documented standards.

Never said they weren't there.
I think one of the problem is that differant people have differant definitions of oral. And differant definitions of successes. And it's the internet so we don't have to believe everything we read as gospel.

A girl I know at school was paraded as an oral success as she was HOH and orally taught. She later turned to prostitution. I'm not saying ALL oral successes do that but it does happen.

I think people's problem isn't with successes so much. It's the failures that make people feel the way they do about oralism. The oral first and signing if that fails aproach creates people without language.

As I said before. Omitting sign language is like going sailing without a life jacket. It doesn't stop you from enjoying sailing but if you aren't wearing one and the boat keels over then you could drown if you aren't wearing a life jacket.

Same thing with communication needs. You give your child everything and then things can start being dropped when they are older but all componanats (signing, oral, literature) should be there at the beginning.

That way there will be no more drowning children who cannot communicate because they failed with speech, but don't have any other communication method to fall back on.

I just about fell out of my chair when reading that bolded statement about the girl turning to prostitution. Her turning to prostitution has nothing to do with her being oral. I think you owe an apology to all those on this forum and worldwide who are oral. I guess if I get fired from my job for whatever reason I can turn to prositution because I had an oral environment in addition to sign.