Parants of CI children.

[kokonut]

Really, speech reading or lip reading is only beneficial at a distance of FIVE FEET or less!!

Guess that is another of your opinions that you are passing off as "fact". No wait folks, we'll get the standard response that there is "empirical evidence and studies have shown". Bottom line is that you are just making it up as you go along.

As to your trite little attempt at a put down to start your post, you just do not get it and never will. Talk TO, instead of talking AT, a successful implant user and or the parent of such a child and they will tell you what the implant has allowed them or their child to accomplish auditorily. Yes, of course they are deaf and always will be but they have, through the cochlear implant, the ability to hear sounds that they could never hear before.

Cloggy said it best when he said his beautiful daughter was a deaf child who could hear with her cochlear implant. You of course, looked only at the words and attacked him because you could not, and never will, understand the meaning of what he was saying.

I am done on this and moving on, in part because as you said the other day, I have no interest in engaging in a battle of wits with one who is unarmed but more so I have no time to waste with a close minded individual who cannot see deaf people as unique individuals and who sees the success of oral and cochlear implanted children as a threat to her.

Instead of embracing the success of such children and adults as part of the entire deaf community and seeking to incorporate their success to the benefit of all in the deaf community, you want oral and cochlear implanted children to fail. That is truly sad.

Bravo!:monkey:

 

[deafdyke]

That's what we do if we deny the child sign language along with speech.

I say give the child as many tools as possible: ASL, reading and writing, cued speech, HA (if aplicable). Then when they get older they can decide which are useful for them.

Exactly.....that's what AG Bellers don't understand......Why are they so obessed with speech only? Speech is a good tool....but it won't ever provide dhh kids with complete and strict equality except in the best driving conditions.
Very few people who advocate ASL use are anti-speech. I'm actually very PRO-SPEECH. I think the majority of dhh kids can significently benifit from speech therapy. It's the exact same way as Hispanic kids will have an easier time if they are bilingal in both Spanish and English, then if they are just unilingal in Spanish.
Rick, I find it really ironic that a lot of the same parents who are very pro oral only, would jump at a chance for their kids to be bilingal in any other language.

 

[shel90]

Exactly.....that's what AG Bellers don't understand......Why are they so obessed with speech only? Speech is a good tool....but it won't ever provide dhh kids with complete and strict equality except in the best driving conditions.
Very few people who advocate ASL use are anti-speech. I'm actually very PRO-SPEECH. I think the majority of dhh kids can significently benifit from speech therapy. It's the exact same way as Hispanic kids will have an easier time if they are bilingal in both Spanish and English, then if they are just unilingal in Spanish.
Rick, I find it really ironic that a lot of the same parents who are very pro oral only, would jump at a chance for their kids to be bilingal in any other language.

They probably see ASL and the Deaf community as a threat.

 

[rockdrummer]

Do parents have the right to make the cochlear implant decision for their children?

I happen to agree with this and would add there are no guarantees no matter which route you take.

The right of parents to make the decision to choose to give their children the opportunity to hear and to acquire speech and language is founded in morals, ethics, law, societal mores and common sense.

Before a person becomes a member of any society, religion, or culture, he or she is first and foremost a vital member of his or her family. The intrusion into the sanctity of the parent/child relationship is not to be trampled upon lightly and certainly when the interlopers into the parent/child relationship are non-familial outsiders.
It is undisputed and historically recognized by our courts and our laws that the natural bonds of affection lead parents to act in the best interests of their children. The courts and the law also recognize the presumption that the concept of the family rest upon the fact that parents possess what a child lacks in maturity, experience and capacity for judgment required for making life's difficult decisions. The courts and the law are merely reflecting hundreds of years of civilized societal norms and the common sense reality that children, by virtue of the very fact that they are children, can not and should not make certain decisions. Those decisions are best left to their parents, who know their child better than any outsider. Thus, parents, who are entrusted to freely make decisions concerning their child's health, safety, welfare, education, religion, values and countless other decisions, are certainly capable to make decisions concerning their child's language development.

When making the decision to choose the cochlear implant, there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that parents are not making well informed, reasoned, and rational decisions that are in the best interests of their children. To intrude into the parents' decision-making process without such evidence, is unwarranted, unjustified, and unethical....... Source

 

[rockdrummer]

I'm curious about one thing. A lot of people here talk about giving children a full communication toolbox or "best of both worlds" etc. Some also say that if they have a difficulty with speech, they will drop it in favor of sign. I'm curious about what you consider "difficulty". It's obvious to drop it if they show no progress. However, what if they refuse to even try? I mean they ARE kids. I doubt most of them will be good little students when it comes to speech. If they start signing "I dont wanna!", does this mean it's time to drop speech or do you keep insisting?

Good questions. I have problems with my son when I try to sign to him he just keeps looking away (at the TV or whatever else he is pre-occupied with) which makes it very difficult to communicate with him. I don't know that he is flat out refusing to look at me but just more that he is a child pre-occupied with what is obviously way more important that what I have to say.

 

[dreama]

I don't think that speech should be dropped in favor of signing. Since I think signing should have already been established at the beginning in the form of baby signs. So the child should already be a fluent signer.

Possibly a change of approach to speech might help a deaf child pick up speech better? Maybe if it's made more visual it might be easier for them to pick up. Say with cued speech or visual phonic rather then using the auditory verbal tecnique.

 

[dreama]

Exactly.....that's what AG Bellers don't understand......Why are they so obessed with speech only? Speech is a good tool....but it won't ever provide dhh kids with complete and strict equality except in the best driving conditions.
Very few people who advocate ASL use are anti-speech. I'm actually very PRO-SPEECH. I think the majority of dhh kids can significently benifit from speech therapy. It's the exact same way as Hispanic kids will have an easier time if they are bilingal in both Spanish and English, then if they are just unilingal in Spanish.
Rick, I find it really ironic that a lot of the same parents who are very pro oral only, would jump at a chance for their kids to be bilingal in any other language.

I totally agree.

 

[Hear Again]

I don't think that speech should be dropped in favor of signing.

Not even if the child is obviously struggling?

 

[dreama]

Not even if the child is obviously struggling?

Well since the child would already KNOW sign language they wouldn't be struggling. Or at least not in any subject other then Speech.

I'm talking about giving them speech lessons once or twice a week. I'm not talking about doing the oral only aproach.

See I'm for having BOTH Sign and speech. I'm for the full toolbox. So nothing would be dropped in favor of something else since the main componanants ( sign language, literacy and speech) would be there right from the start.

This is what I originally said:

I don't think that speech should be dropped in favor of signing. Since I think signing should have already been established at the beginning in the form of baby signs. So the child should already be a fluent signer.

I wonder if you read the whole thing?

 

[jillio]

Good questions. I have problems with my son when I try to sign to him he just keeps looking away (at the TV or whatever else he is pre-occupied with) which makes it very difficult to communicate with him. I don't know that he is flat out refusing to look at me but just more that he is a child pre-occupied with what is obviously way more important that what I have to say.

I think you hit that nail on the head, RD. If you were using speech, he would tune you out if there were something he found more interesting. That is simply the child in him.

 

[Babyblue]

I think you hit that nail on the head, RD. If you were using speech, he would tune you out if there were something he found more interesting. That is simply the child in him.

I can either speak or sign. My kids will tune me out at times.

And they are hearing!!

They do the same to my husband. He is hearing and they are hearing. If my kids are preoccupied, They all of a sudden develop a case of A.D.D. especially if the T.V. is on.


So that should not be the case at all. Can not compare that to a deaf child and hearing child.

I even catch my husband doing it, and myself as well.

 

[jillio]

I can either speak or sign. My kids will tune me out at times.

And they are hearing!!

They do the same to my husband. He is hearing and they are hearing. If my kids are preoccupied, They all of a sudden develop a case of A.D.D. especially if the T.V. is on.


So that should not be the case at all. Can not compare that to a deaf child and hearing child.

I even catch my husband doing it, and myself as well.

Exactly. We are all guilty of selective attention at times. Kids seem to be pros at it!

 

[Babyblue]

*nodding*

 

[deafdyke]

The intrusion into the sanctity of the parent/child relationship is not to be trampled upon lightly and certainly when the interlopers into the parent/child relationship are non-familial outsiders.
It is undisputed and historically recognized by our courts and our laws that the natural bonds of affection lead parents to act in the best interests of their children. The courts and the law also recognize the presumption that the concept of the family rest upon the fact that parents possess what a child lacks in maturity, experience and capacity for judgment required for making life's difficult decisions. The courts and the law are merely reflecting hundreds of years of civilized societal norms and the common sense reality that children, by virtue of the very fact that they are children, can not and should not make certain decisions. Those decisions are best left to their parents, who know their child better than any outsider. Thus, parents, who are entrusted to freely make decisions concerning their child's health, safety, welfare, education, religion, values and countless other decisions, are certainly capable to make decisions concerning their child's language development.

When making the decision to choose the cochlear implant, there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that parents are not making well informed, reasoned, and rational decisions that are in the best interests of their children. To intrude into the parents' decision-making process without such evidence, is unwarranted, unjustified, and unethical.......

I'm sorry, but this just sounds so almost " Focus on your Own Damn Familyish"
Most parents of dhh kids are HEARING, and thus have NO freaking idea how to really raise a kid with a disabilty. I think this was prolly written by one of those AG Bellers who think that ALL Deafies are anti CI and Sign only.

 

[Hear Again]

Well since the child would already KNOW sign language they wouldn't be struggling. Or at least not in any subject other then Speech.

Not necessarily. Being able to speak has absolutely nothing to do with sign.

 

[Hear Again]

I wonder if you read the whole thing?

Why? Just because I have a different opinion?

When I read posts, I read them from beginning to end. I don't make it a habit of only reading what I want to read.

 

[dreama]

Why? Just because I have a different opinion?

No because if you had read the whole post you would realise that I have no intention of depriving the child of sign. In fact the child would be taught baby sign as soon as their hearing was diagnosed. So I really didn't understand what your point was. I would NEVER deprive a deaf child of sign.

 

[Hear Again]

No because if you had read the whole post you would realise that I have no intention of depriving the child of sign.

Feel free to make any assumptions you wish. It does not matter to me.

 

[deafskeptic]

Dont forget that speechreading is very hard on the eyes. I used to get headaches and fatigue constantly by afternoon when the lessons got more complex. Try to imagine understanding a complex lesson and working to get access to the information at the same time. It is not natural.

I remembering getting headaches from lipreading all day.

 

[rockdrummer]

I'm sorry, but this just sounds so almost " Focus on your Own Damn Familyish"
Most parents of dhh kids are HEARING, and thus have NO freaking idea how to really raise a kid with a disabilty. I think this was prolly written by one of those AG Bellers who think that ALL Deafies are anti CI and Sign only.

That is your opinion and you are entltiled to it. Personally I disagree with you. What on Gods' green earth is wrong with focusing on your family? I don't know about you by my family comes first.

When I first joined this forum, I got my ass reamed for referring to deafness as a disability. Is it now ok to call deafness a disability? Because if it is, that brings up a whole list of additional reasons why a parent may wish to choose a CI for their child.