Parants of CI children.

[jillio]

Maybe not only beneficial but definitely the most beneficial at 5 feet or less. The further away the speaker it, the less is being understood unless the person speaks slower than he/she normally does. Speechreading is not easy and a lot of guesswork happens.

It is simply logic. The farther away the speaker is, the less information can be discriminated. Speech reading requires the discrimination of very fine and minute movements many times. The farther away the receiver is, the less those fine movement can be discriminated.

 

[jillio]

This paper explores the potential use of LipCam, a system that was developed at the Applied Science and Engineering Laboratories (ASEL). It is intended to offer a hearing impaired student constant visual information of the lecturer's lips on a virtual heads-up display. It offers constant lip information independent of the speaker's orientation, lighting conditions, and distance from the student.

Why would the development of this technology be necessary if the conditions I described did not affect the ability to accurately gain information through lipreading in a classroom?

A Preliminary Investigation of a Lipreading Tool Intended for a Regular Educational Classroom Setting
Anna C. Phalangas, Kenneth E. Barner, Arthur W. Joyce III
Applied Science and Engineering Laboratories
University of Delaware /duPont Hospital for Children
Wilmington, DE U.S.A

 

[AlleyCat]

It is simply logic. The farther away the speaker is, the less information can be discriminated. Speech reading requires the discrimination of very fine and minute movements many times. The farther away the receiver is, the less those fine movement can be discriminated.

That is absolutely true!

 

[shel90]

Everything in your original post was right on, I firmly believe. I highlighed just the part that I liked best. I barely post in these threads as well anymore because it, like you said, has become a battle of wits where certain people always have to have the last word and nitpick everything down to the last detail - even going so far as to pick out just one word and change the context.

And what infuriates me is that oftentimes these last words come from posters who think their opinion is superior than any of ours. Not equivalent, allowed, justifiable, experienced -- nothing - just superior. I have said all I have needed to say.

U seem angry about something.

 

[Hear Again]

U seem angry about something.

That was my impression as well.

 

[Daredevel7]

Perhaps a little story will clear things up....

I was on a soccer team with this girl. Let's call her Lucy. She's awesome, she's great, she's fierce on the field. She often yells at the other team whenever they muck with us. Now I'm older and I look back....I realize that she can be a real b*&%. I just didn't see it because I was on her good side.

 

[jillio]

This thread is seriously threatening to go off topic. Let's continue the discussion without the snideness and the sarcasm, shall we?

 

[Daredevel7]

This thread is seriously threatening to go off topic. Let's continue the discussion without the snideness and the sarcasm, shall we?

Yes, let's.

I find that there is a very blurred line between insisting a deaf child to keep up with speech therapy and forcing the said child to "learn to speak". I wonder if there's any parents here with a deaf child who tried to do speech therapy in conjunction with ASL and decided to stop the speech aspect. I would like to hear the reason why.

 

[shel90]

Yes, let's.

I find that there is a very blurred line between insisting a deaf child to keep up with speech therapy and forcing the said child to "learn to speak". I wonder if there's any parents here with a deaf child who tried to do speech therapy in conjunction with ASL and decided to stop the speech aspect. I would like to hear the reason why.

After 5 years of putting my brother in speech therapy with no success, my mom gave it up because my brother's language level was barely of a two year old by the time he was 5. It was obvious that his language development was getting seriously retarded by it. She never believed that ASL was a good thing for us until years and years later.

As for the conjunction, I have known parents to do that and some still continue to require speech therapy and some stopped. Some kids were successful with speech therapy and some werent but at least all of them didnt suffer with language delays since they had ASL from the begining.

 

[candybrowneyes]

Yes please cool it down and stay on topic.. If this discussion continues that way I will close it for a cool down.

Thank you

 

[Daredevel7]

As for the conjunction, I have known parents to do that and some still continue to require speech therapy and some stopped. Some kids were successful with speech therapy and some werent but at least all of them didnt suffer with language delays since they had ASL from the begining.

It's good that everything worked out for your brother and that your mom realizes that ASL is a good thing.

Some people aren't good at math, but why do they keep teaching math to people until they are 18 (and sometimes even longer)? Sometimes math isn't even necessary beyond the basics of addition, subtraction, and multiplying. Would be okay to stop teaching math at an early age (after the basics) if they aren't progressing well with it? I'm genuinely asking. Maybe it would?

 

[shel90]

It's good that everything worked out for your brother and that your mom realizes that ASL is a good thing.

Some people aren't good at math, but why do they keep teaching math to people until they are 18 (and sometimes even longer)? Sometimes math isn't even necessary beyond the basics of addition, subtraction, and multiplying. Would be okay to stop teaching math at an early age (after the basics) if they aren't progressing well with it? I'm genuinely asking. Maybe it would?

That's why people who arent progressing with math get tested for LD in math and how it is taught can be put in the child's IEP.

However, speech is not part of the academic curriculm but math is. By law, teachers have to teach what is on the cirruculm while speech is an adjunct service. Funny, sometimes parents have to fight the school district to receive speech services for their hearing children who have speech impediments (spelling?).

 

[Daredevel7]

That's why people who arent progressing with math get tested for LD in math and how it is taught can be put in the child's IEP.

However, speech is not part of the academic curriculm but math is. By law, teachers have to teach what is on the cirruculm while speech is an adjunct service. Funny, sometimes parents have to fight the school district to receive speech services for their hearing children who have speech impediments (spelling?).

Really? That really sucks. My first speech therapist was private but it got really expensive and time consuming (1 hr drive). So I went to the speech therapist in my school district. I shared classes with 4-5 others who were hearing but had various speech problems. I am still good friends with the 2nd speech therapist and by her stories, it's obvious that there is a severe lack of therapists.

 

[Hear Again]

This thread is seriously threatening to go off topic. Let's continue the discussion without the snideness and the sarcasm, shall we?

My apologies for being off topic.

 

[Hear Again]

That's why people who arent progressing with math get tested for LD in math and how it is taught can be put in the child's IEP.

This is slightly off topic, but this is exactly how I was misdiagnosed as having an LD in second grade. The real problem wasn't my math ability; it was the fact I did not have access to the material that was written on the chalkboard. It wasn't until 11th grade that I fought the system and was placed in the Honors program in high school. I also participated on my school's Academic Decathalon team. To make this related to the OP, it's a shame how so many disabled students are inappropriately diagnosed with learning problems they do not have or are placed in an educational setting that does not address their needs.

 

[shel90]

Really? That really sucks. My first speech therapist was private but it got really expensive and time consuming (1 hr drive). So I went to the speech therapist in my school district. I shared classes with 4-5 others who were hearing but had various speech problems. I am still good friends with the 2nd speech therapist and by her stories, it's obvious that there is a severe lack of therapists.

I think deaf children will get priority over hearing children to recieve speech services in the public schools.

 

[deafdyke]

A deaf person's weakest sense is their auditory sense. If that were not a true statement, they would not be deaf. Quite a simple concept really, but one you consistently seem to ignore. And I can talk to all the CI users in the world and it will not change the fact that their auditory sense is still their weakest sense. To ask a CI user, or any deaf person, to function solely on audition in the reception of communicative information is to ask them to gain that information through their weakest sense.

That is b/c hearing technology makes someone functionally hoh....NOT hearing.
Yes, its good that rick knows many kids who have awesome oral skills and abilty....HOWEVER, are they comfortable in ALL areas auditorly? Saying that a dhh kid only needs oral abilty is like saying that b/c you're a good driver in the best of road conditions, you're a good driver in ALL road conditions.
Even many "oral sucesses" need 'terps in the classroom.....and most unilaterally hoh folks are lost in crowd sittuions (this is a population that is pretty much hearing!)

 

[rockdrummer]

That is b/c hearing technology makes someone functionally hoh....NOT hearing.
Yes, its good that rick knows many kids who have awesome oral skills and abilty....HOWEVER, are they comfortable in ALL areas auditorly? Saying that a dhh kid only needs oral abilty is like saying that b/c you're a good driver in the best of road conditions, you're a good driver in ALL road conditions.
Even many "oral sucesses" need 'terps in the classroom.....and most unilaterally hoh folks are lost in crowd sittuions (this is a population that is pretty much hearing!)

Yes Yes Yes, I dont think anyone can argue that there will be varying degrees of "success" which will clearly depend on what objectives are set forth. I don't believe that it is anybody's right to deny any deaf individual or parent of a deaf child access to the choices and unbias knowledge about each choice. I also don't belive it is anybody's right to try to eliminate any of the choices when there are successes assiociated with those choices and methods. We have heard from the left right and middle on this issue over and over and it's the same story.

That said, I also believe that all sides should weigh in so that folks looking at these discussions can see the issues from many perspectives. Not everything will work for everyone. We see this everyday in the stories that people share with us on this board and we see this in real life with the people that we encounter. Nobody has the right to deny anybody their freedom of choice.

 

[Hear Again]

Yes Yes Yes, I dont think anyone can argue that there will be varying degrees of "success" which will clearly depend on what objectives are set forth. I don't believe that it is anybody's right to deny any deaf individual or parent of a deaf child access to the choices and unbias knowledge about each choice. I also don't belive it is anybody's right to try to eliminate any of the choices when there are successes assiociated with those choices and methods. We have heard from the left right and middle on this issue over and over and it's the same story.

That said, I also believe that all sides should weigh in so that folks looking at these discussions can see the issues from many perspectives. Not everything will work for everyone. We see this everyday in the stories that people share with us on this board and we see this in real life with the people that we encounter. Nobody has the right to deny anybody their freedom of choice.

 

[dreama]

Nobody has the right to deny anybody their freedom of choice.

I agree.

That's what we do if we deny the child sign language along with speech.

I say give the child as many tools as possible: ASL, reading and writing, cued speech, HA (if aplicable). Then when they get older they can decide which are useful for them.