Oral school

[jazzy]

Ohh Ohh, I know I'm typing too much. But there is another instance in this story as well that I forgot to mention. Another of my graduating class, she was in my classes as well. She came to the oral deaf school from public school when she was 12. I think we both started in 5th grade in the same year. She is very, very intelligent and funny as hell. She was my roommate in our dorm. We've had been best friends. What happened to her? Well, on our senior year, we've been talking about going to colleges, etc. My plan to go to college had sidetracked.......long story. To this day I still haven't gone to a college, LOL. However that may be remedied soon, hopefully. Anyway, back to this story, in late summer we went out to hang around and found out she was pregnant with her first baby with her hearing boyfriend who had already passed away years ago with sickle cell disease. Her son was born with C.P. and has been in a wheelchair for rest of his life. From there on, her life has gone downhill since then. Even she had two more kids. Both were born hearing first then became deaf a few years later. She became more bitter and unhappy when her youngest daughter had been begging to be sent to a deaf school instead of mainstream public school where she wasn't very happy. Her second son who had already became an adult decided to get C.I. and is very happy. Good for him. His mom is happy for him. However her daughter wanted C.I. as well when she was a teenager. Once she got C.I. and her attitude had changed toward her mom. She looks down on her mom and kept putting her down at every opportunity. She is only 17 years old. She has been controlling her mom and everything. It has gotten hard on her more. More she drinks, she kept drinking while doesn't want to eat at all. My other friend saw her and told me she has lost a lot more weight. Last summer I saw her at our oral school reunion, I was shocked to see how skinny she is. My other friend said it's much worse than last year. I felt sad and hurt. That makes me want to come up and give a serious lecture to her daughter. I suspect she may not live much longer. She will be 51 next week. *sigh*

I don't think you want to hear the rest of my other classmates who couldn't hack it in real world.

I am not surprise. Most parents of deaf child are still in denied. They were hoping for their child to grow up and doing well in real world as act alike hearing people but reality they will always be alike us the deaf people.

Of course I do want to hear rest of your classmates who could not hack it in real world.

 

[rick48]

Ummm..their reading and writing skills r on grade level...

So, that was an example of the audists views that oral schools portray...

*smh*

In one post you tell us you get all these kids from oral and mainstream programs who are so far behind in thier language skills and now in this post you are telling us that all your kids are reading and writing on grade levels.

Which version is it?

 

[rick48]

No offense, but how do you know they speak well if you can't hear them? Isn't lipreading only about 20% accurate? And you have have no idea if they are saying "bubble" for "purple" since they look the same on lips, right?

Exactly!

 

[jazzy]

I think you refused to believe that because of that you have never a teacher at a public school district. There are many children at a public school who bright, average or below average. Some of those children just has particular needs, and they need extra support from teachers, the school and parents.

It's the same when you teaching your child potty train, not all children toilet trained at the same age. It's varies.

I'm surprised that you're a teacher and don't believe that all children learns and develop in their own way, just the same as walking and talking. Do you actually believe that all toddlers walk at the age of 1? No, some had learned to walk earlier, or before the age of one, or after the age of one.

Many of those hearing children with learning disablity are the one who suffer mostly because they fall thru the crack but they are not same as deaf children. U can not compare apple with orange here. I have a hearing husband with severe learning disability so is my youngest son. My sister who is a teacher and she was the one who noticed something wrong with my youngest son and told me to get help for my son so I did. She used to work with children with learning disablity so I do know. but your can not compare deaf with those hearing kids who have problem with learning. For one I was soooo hungry to learn but I was being forced to learn to read lip and talk instead of not being able to express my feelings and communicate. I am still angry to this day for being denied my right as being a deaf child. So tell me that I do not have problem with it? Yes I still has a problem with it and still struggle with it. I will have to live with it for rest of my life.

 

[faire_jour]

U said that their English isn't on par with their hearing peers.

So, if one must have good spoken skills to survive on their own, like those oral school's goals are then that's a very audist view on deafness which encourages discrimination by the general public. Those r the kinds of views that hurt many of us because of having our spoken skills being constanstly measured.

I didn't say english, I said spoken language.

 

[shel90]

I didn't say english, I said spoken language.

Ok..

So, like I said..maybe your priorities are different than mine. I just would rather not put any child at risks for any language delays or at risks for not having full access to the educational curriculm. That view is why I dont believe in the oral-only philosophy for deaf children.

 

[shel90]

Many of those hearing children with learning disablity are the one who suffer mostly because they fall thru the crack but they are not same as deaf children. U can not compare apple with orange here. I have a hearing husband with severe learning disability so is my youngest son. My sister who is a teacher and she was the one who noticed something wrong with my youngest son and told me to get help for my son so I did. She used to work with children with learning disablity so I do know. but your can not compare deaf with those hearing kids who have problem with learning. For one I was soooo hungry to learn but I was being forced to learn to read lip and talk instead of not being able to express my feelings and communicate. I am still angry to this day for being denied my right as being a deaf child. So tell me that I do not have problem with it? Yes I still has a problem with it and still struggle with it. I will have to live with it for rest of my life.

One of my students who came from the oral program at the age of 6 was labeled as having deviate behavior disorder. In his first year in our program, he had tantrums/outbursts daily. Now, 4 years later, the tantrums and behavior problems are gone and he is now able to focus on learning. It was an issue of having nobody understand his needs or not having a language to express his needs because at that time his spoken English was rated on the 2 year old level. He never had a behavior disorder..just expressing himself the only way he knew how. That kind of thing just breaks my heart.

 

[rick48]

Ok..

So, like I said..maybe your priorities are different than mine. I just would rather not put any child at risks for any language delays or at risks for not having full access to the educational curriculm. That view is why I dont believe in the oral-only philosophy for deaf children.

Sorry but to blanketly dismiss any approach that has been successful for some deaf children is narrow minded. I know many parents who have made the determination to either educate their deaf child in an oral deaf program or orally in a mainstream program whose priorities have been what is in the best interests for their child.

There is no general rule or formula for educating any child. There have been successes and failures with each and every educational philosophy for deaf children.

 

[Kalista]

the answer is NO !!!

I posted several in this site, it is not necessary for me to repeat.

http://www.alldeaf.com/sign-language-oralism/52259-i-am-against-oralism-because.html#post975506

 

[Kalista]

One of my students who came from the oral program at the age of 6 was labeled as having deviate behavior disorder. In his first year in our program, he had tantrums/outbursts daily. Now, 4 years later, the tantrums and behavior problems are gone and he is now able to focus on learning. It was an issue of having nobody understand his needs or not having a language to express his needs because at that time his spoken English was rated on the 2 year old level. He never had a behavior disorder..just expressing himself the only way he knew how. That kind of thing just breaks my heart.

His behavior was instability due to communication barrier which is very common. I remember, I was little kid. I was tantrums and behavior instability because I never understood the teachers said in oral method without sign language. My academic went really bad. Until, I enrolled college with interpreter ASL and interact with college students who are sign language. My academic is much improvement due to visual in sign language to pick up my true language. ASL is my primarily language. I am very very against oral. I learned NOTHING during my childhood.

 

[shel90]

the answer is NO !!!

I posted several in this site, it is not necessary for me to repeat.

http://www.alldeaf.com/sign-language-oralism/52259-i-am-against-oralism-because.html#post975506

Summary:

Someone asked me if I were against oralists when I know s/he must have meant oralism because to be against oralists just because they can speak is outrageous! So my response to this modified question is, yes, I am against oralism but not spoken English. Let me share you that the term oralism to me is a stigma. It is associated with “force” for some even “abuse” (i.e. hands whacked with rulers, although physical abuse is prohibited but still, this term brings back these memories that many are scarred with the term oralism.

Oralism is way different than spoken English. Oralism tends to be the only approach and it bans from ASL. Spoken English is not against for one to know both languages since birth. It has no biased meaning – it is just a language. Spoken English doesn’t ban a Deaf child from using ASL nor force those who cannot hear enough to use it. Some people who think the world of oralism are ignorant. Using the word, oralism, still did not change to a positive concept just we would never change the concept of slavery. Now I am not comparing slavery to oralism but in that sense, the idea of slavery is negative just like oralism is for some, if not, many. Would we want to still practice slavery? No! Unfortunately, it is still happening in some parts of the world. Slavery will always be negative just like oralism is but in a different sense of course. There were horror stories associated to oralism that scarred them for life. Although it is history but today the practice, the principle and the philosophy still discriminate against ASL. The Deaf children are suppressed from using ASL. The term should be changed to oracy since it involves the use of switching to both languages where they have the options to use, spoken or signed, where there is more flexibility and compatibility.

(In my video clip, you will see my description on how Flemish Deaf view oralism definition vs. Deaf culture definition.)

That's why I don't accept and approve the concept of oralism because of the attitude. The concept is negative so that is something to think about how should we view oralism.

From my experience, I was able to grow up using spoken English and ASL. Did I ever think that I think of myself as a oralist? No. I am just a spoken English user so it is completely different than being oralist because one doesn't know ASL. I use spoken English, yes. I am ASL user, yes! Oralists don't use ASL. It is just a different view about the way I grow up as I never thought one has to separate those who speak from using ASL. They were placed in an environment using an only-oral-method approach and it was not necessary! ( ASL users still can use spoken English and to not to know ASL growing up because it will hinder language development is still unproven stated by research documents. It has been proven that bilingual approach will benefit the Deaf child to grasp the language, ASL, that is most accessible and natural to them, making the bridge to learn spoken English more effectively if the child desires to do so and benefits the time spent for learning speech).

I copied and pasted this statement...everything she said is exactly how I feel.

As I said, she said English is a language just like ASL is a language.

Oralism is an approach that bans deaf children from using ASL or exposure to ASL and it is an awful approach.

 

[flip]

Oralism sucks, literally.

 

[shel90]

His behavior was instability due to communication barrier which is very common. I remember, I was little kid. I was tantrums and behavior instability because I never understood the teachers said in oral method without sign language. My academic went really bad. Until, I enrolled college with interpreter ASL and interact with college students who are sign language. My academic is much improvement due to visual in sign language to pick up my true language. ASL is my primarily language. I am very very against oral. I learned NOTHING during my childhood.

My brother's kindergarden year at the school I went to was his worst year of his life. He still remembers it vividly..he said his memories of that year are full of red flashes of anger. It was all because he couldnt express himself due to not having a language.

 

[faire_jour]

If that is the definition of "oralism", I have never seen it in practice. I have never see anyone punish a child for not speaking properly, or for using ASL. I have seen families and programs that choose not to use it, but they don't hurt or abuse.

For example, this summer my daughter will be attending two summer programs at fully oral schools. I ask point blank what their position on ASL was. They both told me that the teachers understand ASL and if Miss Kat signs to them they will acknowledge the communication, repeat it back in spoken language and respond in spoken language. Also, the oral school that we were looking at enrolling her in in the fall (probably won't though) said they would transition with a signing aide or sign supported speech, or something, "Anything to make sure she is successful".

My experience is wholey different than the ones so many of you speak of.

 

[faire_jour]

Oralism sucks, literally.

How? What does oralism literally suck? I'm so curious now. Do you know what literally means?

 

[shel90]

If that is the definition of "oralism", I have never seen it in practice. I have never see anyone punish a child for not speaking properly, or for using ASL. I have seen families and programs that choose not to use it, but they don't hurt or abuse.

For example, this summer my daughter will be attending two summer programs at fully oral schools. I ask point blank what their position on ASL was. They both told me that the teachers understand ASL and if Miss Kat signs to them they will acknowledge the communication, repeat it back in spoken language and respond in spoken language. Also, the oral school that we were looking at enrolling her in in the fall (probably won't though) said they would transition with a signing aide or sign supported speech, or something, "Anything to make sure she is successful".

My experience is wholey different than the ones so many of you speak of.

It is very hard for many of us to really trust oral schools or believe what the oralists who work in oral-only programs say. All we see is oral-only as the banning of ASL or disregarding ASL as not needed.

 

[faire_jour]

It is very hard for many of us to really trust oral schools or believe what the oralists who work in oral-only programs say. All we see is oral-only as the banning of ASL or disregarding ASL as not needed.

But there is a difference between choosing not to use as the primary mode of communication, or method of instruction, and banning.

 

[shel90]

But there is a difference between choosing not to use as the primary mode of communication, or method of instruction, and banning.

Oral only programs have the history of adopting the oralism philosophy and banning ASL from their programs. Why are they called only-only then?

 

[faire_jour]

Oral only programs have the history of adopting the oralism philosophy and banning ASL from their programs. Why are they called only-only then?

But what about today? I am visiting John Tracy Clinic this summer, they are one of the programs I was talking about. They are a very only, and prominate oral school. They are willing to accept Miss Kat, and they even say on their website that they know that many families choose to sign and they have no problem with that. They said that their teachers know ASL and would never discourage or put down a child who uses it.

 

[shel90]

But what about today? I am visiting John Tracy Clinic this summer, they are one of the programs I was talking about. They are a very only, and prominate oral school. They are willing to accept Miss Kat, and they even say on their website that they know that many families choose to sign and they have no problem with that. They said that their teachers know ASL and would never discourage or put down a child who uses it.

Sorry, I dont trust their claims. I have seen too many kids from oral-only programs come to our programs not knowing ASL or any other sign language because the programs they came from discouraged the use of ASL or any other signed languages. Nothing against you but I just cant trust them due to what I see year after year..if they were supportive of ASL then why allow the children fall behind in language and social development?

They may not have a problem with families using ASL at the home but may have a problem with using ASL in the educational setting where critical learning takes place.