'Open Carry' Law Contoversy: Gun Owner Cited

Daredevel7 said:
Exactly! So what's this "omgz, don't let the bad guys dictate your life!" nonsense? As if gun owners are the only ones unaffected. Come on now....

By the way, I've been held up twice already. Once in Madrid and again in Atlanta. They didn't have guns. They used knives.

Do I wish I had a gun at those times? Not really. I'm okay with giving up 300 pesetas (=$2.50, before Euros were implemented) and... actually the one in ATL didn't even get anything from me because I literally did not carry money or anything at all at that time. Even showed him all of my pockets. But that's just me, personally. If you wanna pull out your gun when you get held up, you deal with it your way, and I'll deal with it in mine.
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I have no problem with that belief. Jillio, on the other hand, believes that we all should deal with it HER way.
 
Jiro said:
This thread is about Open Carry and also CCW holders....

To answer your question - yes CCW holders are also gun owners but CCW requires a separate permit. Gun Owners can choose to opt for CCW permit or not.

So the statistics you speak of is referring to gun owners.... I see that there are accidental deaths, injuries, intentional killings, etc.... for clarification purpose - I'm asking you if you know specifically if CCW holders are factored into it and how many exactly (or estimated)... or any data that is caused by CCW holders.
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Wait I remember this question.....If some gallumps are wigwags and all wigwags....
 
Jiro said:
there are handful of people who have driver license but do not own cars....... like New Yorkers.


Really? I see... and I was not able to elicit this kind of simple yes/no answer from you to my simple question that requires only yes or no....


Then you do know how many gun owners in statistics that do have CCW permits? A simple yes or no answer will do.
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Another strawman and fallicious comparison? When are you going to learn that doesn't work?
 
Jiro said:
I have no problem with that belief. Jillio, on the other hand, believes that we all should deal with it HER way.
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Where did I say that? You don't even know what my way is. You simply don't like it when the gaps in logic are pointed out in your way and start making assumptions.
 
jillio said:
Another strawman and fallicious comparison? When are you going to learn that doesn't work?
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A citizen can have a firearm license and not own a gun.
A citizen can have a driver license and not own a car.

and that's fallacious comparison? really?
 
jillio said:
Where did I say that? You don't even know what my way is. You simply don't like it when the gaps in logic are pointed out in your way and start making assumptions.
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then please do correct me if I'm wrong - you believe that law-abiding citizens should not be carrying CCW in public.

Yes?
 
Daredevel7 said:
Exactly! So what's this "omgz, don't let the bad guys dictate your life!" nonsense? As if gun owners are the only ones unaffected. Come on now....

By the way, I've been held up twice already. Once in Madrid and again in Atlanta. They didn't have guns. They used knives.

Do I wish I had a gun at those times? Not really. I'm okay with giving up 300 pesetas (=$2.50, before Euros were implemented) and... actually the one in ATL didn't even get anything from me because I literally did not carry money or anything at all at that time. Even showed him all of my pockets. But that's just me, personally. If you wanna pull out your gun when you get held up, you deal with it your way, and I'll deal with it in mine.
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I got held up by the same guy (maybe) in ATL (2003).....In a MARTA station. I lost like $4. He is not getting rich. :lol: :hmm: then I had the incident in the BART station. Note to self.....Take gun when on trains. We differ though. I DO wish I would have had my gun with me. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
 
Jiro said:
A citizen can have a firearm license and not own a gun.
A citizen can have a driver license and not own a car.

and that's fallacious comparison? really?
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Yep. Because we are talking about statistics regarding injuries and death. Someone who doesn't own a gun is not included in the numbers.
 
TXgolfer said:
I got held up by the same guy (maybe) in ATL (2003).....In a MARTA station. I lost like $4. He is not getting rich. :lol: :hmm: then I had the incident in the BART station. Note to self.....Take gun when on trains. We differ though. I DO wish I would have had my gun with me. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
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So, you would have shot someone over $4?
 
jillio said:
Yep. Because we are talking about statistics regarding injuries and death. Someone who doesn't own a gun is not included in the numbers.
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Someone who doesn't own a car is not included in the numbers too when it involves automobile-related deaths/injuries?
 
Jiro said:
then please do correct me if I'm wrong - you believe that law-abiding citizens should not be carrying CCW in public.

Yes?
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I believe that there are people who need to be armed with a CCW. The average Joe walking down the street is not one of them.

Me not being armed doesn't put you in danger. You being armed has the potential to create a dangerous situation for me.

Let me ask you something: do you support the smoking in public places ban?
 
jillio said:
So, you would have shot someone over $4?
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You don't know that beforehand.

We can play with this all days long -

"Would you have shot someone if he took your wallet and key, thinking that he'll get into your house later on?"
"Would you have shot someone if he was about to stab you?"
"Would you have shot someone if he was drooling and looking at your kid next to you?"
"Would you have shot someone if he was drooling and looking at your woman?"
 
jillio said:
I believe that there are people who need to be armed with a CCW. The average Joe walking down the street is not one of them.
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"People who need to be armed with a CCW".... such as what kind of people?

jillio said:
Me not being armed doesn't put you in danger. You being armed has the potential to create a dangerous situation for me.
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I understand that. That's your choice to not go with people with CCW and I have no problem with that.
 
Jiro said:
Someone who doesn't own a car is not included in the numbers too when it involves automobile-related deaths/injuries?
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It has nothing to do with the statistics regarding death by firearms. We are not looking at statistics on the number of people involved in a fatal or near fatal accident that were driving someone else's car.
 
deafskeptic said:
I believe this is a case of apple and oranges.
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not really.

it's the case of obfuscation and backpedaling. In both cases - both requires license to operate and/or own.... both kills people - accidentally or intentionally. both can be licensed and not own what they're licensed for. both are in top 10 leading causes of death.

apple and oranges? only for people who need a convenient excuse to get out of a jam.
 
TXgolfer said:
Yup. Violent crime is violent crime.
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Hm.. wow. Okay then, we definitely differ in this aspect. I just can't bring myself to be that brutal.

I can see it. A criminal kills me and you grab your gun (no metaphors here) and sing "Too bad, so sad". ;)

As long you are responsible with your gun, I am perfectly fine with living in the same world as you, but I definitely don't want to live in the world the way you see it.
 
jillio said:
It has nothing to do with the statistics regarding death by firearms. We are not looking at statistics on the number of people involved in a fatal or near fatal accident that were driving someone else's car.
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um...... really? you're using that ignorant dummy card?
 
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