'Open Carry' Law Contoversy: Gun Owner Cited

jillio said:
Why not you? Are you, or are you not, dissatisfied with the crime rate and the criminal justice system?
Click to expand...
why not me fight for law-abiding citizen's right?

we both can come to a mutual understanding. I fight for citizen's rights to carry and you fight for societal stratification. and in the end - we both win.
 
Jiro said:
why not me fight for law-abiding citizen's right?

we both can come to a mutual understanding. I fight for citizen's rights to carry and you fight for societal stratification. and in the end - we both win.
Click to expand...

By fighting to change the way the criminal justice system functions, you do fight for the law abiding citizens' rights. In fact, you could be said to be fighting for human rights.

If you want to correct a situation, you fight against that which creates the situation. If you want to continue a situation, you do that which escalates the situation. Your choice. But, if you advocate violence to end violence, you have no right to complain about the high rate of violent crime. You are helping to create the conditions that allow it to esscalate.

BTW...you is a generic reference.
 
jillio said:
By fighting to change the way the criminal justice system functions, you do fight for the law abiding citizens' rights. In fact, you could be said to be fighting for human rights.

If you want to correct a situation, you fight against that which creates the situation. If you want to continue a situation, you do that which escalates the situation. Your choice. But, if you advocate violence to end violence, you have no right to complain about the high rate of violent crime. You are helping to create the conditions that allow it to esscalate.

BTW...you is a generic reference.
Click to expand...

that's fine and I disagree and we can just agree to disagree. Your belief and my belief are different but both of our goal is same. as long as we both achieve our goal, we both win.

and it would be best if you don't twist it around such as "if you advocate violence to end violence".... It's tiresome and unproductive and I'm not going to explain why. But you don't see me accusing you of supporting criminal's right to rob people without fear of self-defense by any means, right?

It's very simple. You go ahead and do the social de-stratification advocation that will reduces criminal elements.... and I will go ahead and do the Amendment 2 advocation that will protect people from criminal elements. In the end... everybody's happy because we get to have a choice to carry one or not and city has gotten safer with both gun-friendly laws and social policy.

A gun-friendly town/city with lowered crime rate. that is ideal, yes?
 
Jiro said:
that's fine and I disagree and we can just agree to disagree. Your belief and my belief are different but both of our goal is same. as long as we both achieve our goal, we both win.

and it would be best if you don't twist it around such as "if you advocate violence to end violence".... It's tiresome and unproductive and I'm not going to explain why. But you don't see me accusing you of supporting criminal's right to rob people without fear of self-defense by any means, right?

It's very simple. You go ahead and do the social de-stratification advocation that will reduces criminal elements.... and I will go ahead and do the Amendment 2 advocation that will protect people from criminal elements. In the end... everybody's happy because we get to have a choice to carry one or not and city has gotten safer with both gun-friendly laws and social policy.

A gun-friendly town/city with lowered crime rate. that is ideal, yes?
Click to expand...

The difference is, one will reach the goal, and one won't.

How about lowered crime rate so citizens don't feel the need to walk around armed?
 
jillio said:
The difference is, one will reach the goal, and one won't.
Click to expand...
if it's a failed goal, then one has to open one's mind to see why. One has to ask oneself - am I being too idealistic? unrealistic? what wrong with with my advocation?

jillio said:
How about lowered crime rate so citizens don't feel the need to walk around armed?
Click to expand...
why don't we look at big picture? if we live in city where it's safer now, then there's no need for you to be concerned about armed citizens, right?
 
Jiro said:
lol how often do you hear about gang war in America? No organized gang is stupid enough to cause bunch of gun battles or they'll risk RICO and massive clampdown/beatdown by bunch of 3-letters agencies plus local/state LEOs. That's bad for their businesses. very bad :lol:

and guess what? you as a law-abiding citizen can't pack a heat in LA or Oakland. California is one of 6 states that rarely or do not issue CCW permit.
Click to expand...

If there are no gang wars, then why do people feel the need to carry firearms when going to the store?
 
Jiro said:
if it's a failed goal, then one has to open one's mind to see why. One has to ask oneself - am I being too idealistic? unrealistic? what wrong with with my advocation?


why don't we look at big picture? if we live in city where it's safer now, then there's no need for you to be concerned about armed citizens, right?
Click to expand...

You are putting a bandaid on a festering wound.
 
Reba said:
Yes, I think strong arm robbery is more likely to occur than being caught in the middle of a gang warfare.
Click to expand...

Probably would be completely dependent upon the area you are in.
 
Jiro said:
not gonna bother with this triviality again. See Post #842. Post #843. Post #845.

I don't play with math when it comes to my life. I certainly do not want to end up as statistic.
Click to expand...

Hate to tell you, jiro, you already are a statistic.

Fine. I thought you were interested in discussing long term solutions to crime, and the ways in which superficial solutions contribute to the crime rate. Looks like you just use crime as your convenient excuse to pack heat, and it is not really a concern to you at all. My bad.
 
jillio said:
Hate to tell you, jiro, you already are a statistic.
Click to expand...
yes - the good statistic. not victim statistic.

jillio said:
Fine. I thought you were interested in discussing long term solutions to crime, and the ways in which superficial solutions contribute to the crime rate.
Click to expand...
I am open to all ideas. and what to do about RIGHT now where people are becoming victims? Again - your advocation and my advocation will approach to same goal. If your advocation is infringing upon my advocation, we both already know who lost.

But you should be lucky that I recognize your advocation and support it.

jillio said:
Looks like you just use crime as your convenient excuse to pack heat, and it is not really a concern to you at all. My bad.
Click to expand...
I thought I told you not to resort to this kind of childish word twisting?

You and I both know you lost your credibility because of your intellectual dishonesty when you put down couple of posters' calculation with statistic and such and I basically proved you wrong that National Academies were not able to find anything conclusive nor definitive connection with SAME statistics you used for your conclusive statements but I'm not rubbing it on your nose like a sore winner, aren't I?

So let's tone it down with this childish word-twisting and start acting like sensible adults with good intentions in mind, shall we?
 
Back
Top