'Open Carry' Law Contoversy: Gun Owner Cited

Jean Harris is just one example of crime of passion and I have no doubt that some crimes of passions have occurred in public spaces like offices. I believe I can cite cases of crimes of passion in public space from the short stories and novels by Ann Rule but I will need to go upstairs and go thru her books and cite the cases. Her most famous book is A Stranger Beside Me.
Jiro,
I had to look for one of her books because I couldn't remember the title. Anyway, the title is Dead By Sunset.

I remember this story well because the details of this case were so ugly that it made my hair stand on end.

I have no doubt that those who were in the investigation risked their lives to bring Brad Cunningham the killer of Cheryl Keeton to justice. If Brad had been freed from prison, Ann Rule herself would be at risk for murder. She wouldn't be the only one either. Fortunately for all involved, he has no chance of parole.

According to the book, Cheyrl Keeton was murdered in a very public place: she likely died either at a deserted gas station or close to an Oregon Freeway. Her body was found in a van on the fast lane of an Oregon freeway. Had there been a crash, it is likely the resulting fire would have burned up the evidence. The details of this case makes it clear that this was a premeditated crime of passion murder case. Cheryl Keeton was in middle of an unusually ugly divorce and custody battle because Brad was a very vengeful person who would stop at nothing to destroy Cheryl.

Then there's the case of Diane Downs. She shot 3 of her kids on a rural road. One of them died from her gunshot wounds. She then drove her car to the hospital. Police got suspicious because Diane seemed too calm for someone who had been attacked by a stranger who shot her kids. Forensic evidence did not match Diane's story. The motive for her crimes?

She was in middle of an affair with a man who did not want children so she decided that wanted to be free of them so she could continue her affair.

Her own daughter Christie Downs testified against her and Diane was convicted of her crimes in 1984.

I would consider this case a crime of passion if not exactly your typical crime of passion.

Neither of these cases involved had victims dying in a private setting. They died in a public place. There are many more cases like the above two but they are as not well known. Not all cases will have guns involved.

I have no doubt that cops, defense lawyers, prosecutors and true crime writers could cite other cases if you ask them.
 
A charge is not always a conviction. Sometimes the charges are dropped, or the case goes to trial and the verdict is not guilty, or reduced to manslaughter.

The numbers I presented did not include dropped charges.
 
He probably learned a valuable lesson from it. Yes, it was fully preventable in the first place, I just wish no one had to die in order for him to learn a lesson.

That seems to be par for the course. People never think it will happen to them until it does.:cool2: A child's death (or an adult's, for that matter) is too great a price to pay to learn something as simple as not having loaded weapons around, especially with kids.
 
What difference is a "crime of passion?" The person is still dead. The relationship between the murderer and victim is irrelevant.
 
What difference is a "crime of passion?" The person is still dead. The relationship between the murderer and victim is irrelevant.

It came into the discussion because Jiro stated that crimes of passion were never, ever committed by CCW or OC armed persons.
 
Interesting, I read that the homicide rate across Canada in 2010 is the lowest since 1966. However, the spouses killing spouses rate is stable at the moment, accounting for 89 out of 554 homicides. Shooting and stabbing accounts for 31% and 32% of the total homicide cases.

I am deeply disturbed by the number of spouses killing each other though.
 
It came into the discussion because Jiro stated that crimes of passion were never, ever committed by CCW or OC armed persons.

Washington State is said to be an Open carry friendly state according to this site. The Diane Down case that I cited is in Washington State.

The Brad Cunningham case doesn't count because no guns were used in this crime.
 
Interesting, I read that the homicide rate across Canada in 2010 is the lowest since 1966. However, the spouses killing spouses rate is stable at the moment, accounting for 89 out of 554 homicides. Shooting and stabbing accounts for 31% and 32% of the total homicide cases.

I am deeply disturbed by the number of spouses killing each other though.

So am I.
 
That's not necessarily true. In some states you're automatically charged even if it is a home invasion and it's tossed out later. Some states have castle laws where the benefit of the doubt is given to the home owner, but not all...mine, for example. Some states, such as Hawaii and New Jersey, impose a "duty to retreat" that requires the homeowner to leave the home if possible, which can force a trial to determine whether the shooting of an intruder was justified. So home invasions in those cases *would* be included.

As long as the charges are there, it is an unlawful shooting.
 
Interesting, I read that the homicide rate across Canada in 2010 is the lowest since 1966. However, the spouses killing spouses rate is stable at the moment, accounting for 89 out of 554 homicides. Shooting and stabbing accounts for 31% and 32% of the total homicide cases.

I am deeply disturbed by the number of spouses killing each other though.

The spouse killing spouse rate is always the last to drop. The vast majority of people incarcerated for murder are there because of a situation like this. They are "crimes of passion". (sorry, sallylou:giggle:). That is also why the death penalty is relatively ineffective in dropping crime rates; particularly murder. This group of people has an extremely low recidivism rate to begin with, but also, they do not premeditate, but act in the moment without thought to the consequences. They aren't thinking about the death penalty when they kill. If they aren't thinking of it, it cannot act as a deterrent.

Unfortunately, most people think that the majority of murders are stranger murders, murders committed in the act of a robbery, or an out of their head mass murderer. Those cases are extremely rare if we actually look at the crime rates and the incarcerated populations. I guess that's why so many people think they need to pack heat. Misperception of the actual danger.
 
Yes, you are most likely to be injured or killed by a family member. Ya'll sleep with one eye open! :lol:

Seriously, the most dangerous time for a woman is while she is pregnant. For some reason, partners kill women while pregnant more than any other time.
 
Yes, you are most likely to be injured or killed by a family member. Ya'll sleep with one eye open! :lol:

Seriously, the most dangerous time for a woman is while she is pregnant. For some reason, partners kill women while pregnant more than any other time.

This is all very true. And, as I stated earlier, a gun in the home is several times more likely to kill a family member than a stranger invader.
 
The spouse killing spouse rate is always the last to drop. The vast majority of people incarcerated for murder are there because of a situation like this. They are "crimes of passion". (sorry, sallylou:giggle:). That is also why the death penalty is relatively ineffective in dropping crime rates; particularly murder. This group of people has an extremely low recidivism rate to begin with, but also, they do not premeditate, but act in the moment without thought to the consequences. They aren't thinking about the death penalty when they kill. If they aren't thinking of it, it cannot act as a deterrent.

Unfortunately, most people think that the majority of murders are stranger murders, murders committed in the act of a robbery, or an out of their head mass murderer. Those cases are extremely rare if we actually look at the crime rates and the incarcerated populations. I guess that's why so many people think they need to pack heat. Misperception of the actual danger.

Completely in agreement. I'm aware of the fact that the majority of murders are committed by someone they already know. It's usually a family relative, close friend or someone you know.
 
Yes, you are most likely to be injured or killed by a family member. Ya'll sleep with one eye open! :lol:

Seriously, the most dangerous time for a woman is while she is pregnant. For some reason, partners kill women while pregnant more than any other time.

It must be the hormones.
 
You mean the man's testosterone poisoning, right?
 
I don't think that hitting pregnant women is even remotely funny.
 
I don't think that hitting pregnant women is even remotely funny.

Neither do I. Sorry I gave you the impression that I found humour in it. To be honest, I'm not even sure what the term itself means, all I know is that Alan Alda came up with it. Men who kill their pregnant partners should be held to the fullest extent of the law and count as a double homicide rather than just one.
 
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