'Open Carry' Law Contoversy: Gun Owner Cited

sallylou said:
Jiro, I'm referring to people that I know personally. It's common knowledge that my state does nothing to protect the public from elderly people who may be dangerous. If an old person can shuffle to the car and get behind the wheel, he can drive. We recently had 3 alerts for missing elderly drivers. It's really scary. Some one could take advantage of these people and their loved ones are frantic. If you're going to drive home 10 miles a way, how long do you drive before you think you should stop? One couple were found 2 states away. Obviously, something is wrong. The state should at least require older people to go in to renew their license. Same with weapons.
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again - I have never heard of (or rarely heard of) incidents involving demented elderly people with firearms harming people. and we have already heard numbers of incidents every month where elderly people have harmed or killed people with their cars.
 
sallylou said:
The state should at least require older people to go in to renew their license. Same with weapons.
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I'm thinking you meant that when they go to renew their license, they have to retest...if so, I'll second that.
 
Jiro said:
again - I have never heard of (or rarely heard of) incidents involving demented elderly people with firearms harming people. and we have already heard numbers of incidents every month where elderly people have harmed or killed people with their cars.
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I saw a documentary called "Stop, Or My Mom Will Shoot" :dunno:

It was poorly done....I think it was fake.
 
jillio said:
Using publicly available media reports, the Violence Policy Center claims that from May 2007 through the end of 2009, concealed carry permit holders in the U.S. have killed at least 117 individuals, including 9 law enforcement officers (excluding cases where individuals were acquitted, but including pending cases).
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So, 2 1/2 years, 117 deaths, including an unknown number of cases in which people may be acquitted. That's about 47 possibly unlawful killings per year, for the entire country committed by CCW holders. The state of VA issued 48,407 CCW permits in 2010 alone. Assuming 1 death per state per year (because I don't know how it actually breaks down), that means 48,406 people were able to legally protect themselves and others without suddenly going nuts and shooting someone.
 
PoiToy said:
If the gun had not been available in my original example, that man and his son would not be alive. The man who shot his daughter-in-law made a stupid choice. That sucks, but it happens. And not just with guns. Personally, I'm not shooting someone for being on my driveway. I'm calling the police. I am, however, shooting someone once they illegally enter my house. If I'm not permitted to own a gun, what do I do for that *actual threat* (i.e., not just perceived)? Cower in a corner with my kids and hope the intruder just wants money? Hope he takes debit card, because I don't keep cash.

Yes, people make crap decisions under pressure. But I've never heard of someone randomly shooting someone in the street under ridiculous conditions ("the pig looked at me funny"). CCW people tend to be more aware of threats, better trained and know very well the legal ramifications of mistakes, in my experience. I know a LOT of people with guns (well over a 100 average joes) and not one of them has ever mistakenly fired his weapon. Some have, however, protected their families during break-ins.
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Having a gun in your home, and packing heat walking down the street are very different instances. However, I do hope that when you have that gun in your home, you keep it secured, because the facts of the matter are, that gun is several times more likely to result in the accidental death of a family member (usually a child) than it is to be used against an intruder.
 
PoiToy said:
So, 2 1/2 years, 117 deaths, including an unknown number of cases in which people may be acquitted. That's about 47 possibly unlawful killings per year, for the entire country committed by CCW holders. The state of VA issued 48,407 CCW permits in 2010 alone. Assuming 1 death per state per year (because I don't know how it actually breaks down), that means 48,406 people were able to legally protect themselves and others without suddenly going nuts and shooting someone.
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So, you find 47 unjustified deaths (these people were criminally charged) acceptable?
 
Reba said:
Depends on the state; the laws of each one are different.

In SC, "these" people have to renew their permits every four years. However, renewal doesn't require retesting. It does include an update of the background check.
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So, these people could have suffered a mental decline that would contraindicate their having a weapon concealed on their person in public? And it is not important to make a determination like that regarding a permit to carry a lethal weapon?
 
Jiro said:
source please?
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The bolded. Violence Policy Center. Point being, you said it never happened, not even a single time. Evidently, you didn't check your information carefully enough before making such a claim.
 
Reba said:
Who were the 117 individuals who were shot? Kids coming home after curfew, or gang members circling a car, or home invasions, or armed robbers or....?
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Obviously, it wasn't home invasions. The perpetrators were criminally charged.
 
sallylou said:
Reba, the course is easy. I doubt they are going to target practice. At least the people I know of. I just assume that everyone here is armed and dangerous. Safer that way
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What a shame that you have to make such an assumption in a society that calls themselves "civilized".
 
sallylou said:
Jiro, I'm referring to people that I know personally. It's common knowledge that my state does nothing to protect the public from elderly people who may be dangerous. If an old person can shuffle to the car and get behind the wheel, he can drive. We recently had 3 alerts for missing elderly drivers. It's really scary. Some one could take advantage of these people and their loved ones are frantic. If you're going to drive home 10 miles a way, how long do you drive before you think you should stop? One couple were found 2 states away. Obviously, something is wrong. The state should at least require older people to go in to renew their license. Same with weapons.
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And that is the point. CCW is not regulated in a way that protects the rest of society from the people packing heat.
 
Jiro said:
again - I have never heard of (or rarely heard of) incidents involving demented elderly people with firearms harming people. and we have already heard numbers of incidents every month where elderly people have harmed or killed people with their cars.
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Which is it, Jiro? Never heard of or rarely heard of? Two different things.
 
PoiToy said:
So, 2 1/2 years, 117 deaths, including an unknown number of cases in which people may be acquitted. That's about 47 possibly unlawful killings per year, for the entire country committed by CCW holders. The state of VA issued 48,407 CCW permits in 2010 alone. Assuming 1 death per state per year (because I don't know how it actually breaks down), that means 48,406 people were able to legally protect themselves and others without suddenly going nuts and shooting someone.
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Where did it say the 117 deaths were "unlawful" killings?
 
Jiro said:
Actual Robbery - YouTube

yea definitely illegal possession of firearm..... in Illinois... a state with stringent gun ban law... this happened last week or so.

in case you don't see a gun, the reason why the man didn't chase after him and kept quiet was because at 0:10, the 2nd black male revealed his gun and told him to keep it quiet. iPad was later recovered.

would such idiocy happen in broad daylight in gun-friendly town? I doubt it.
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Yes, it still would have happened (idiocy knows no limit), and if someone with a CC pulled out a gun and started firing, he or she would have ended up putting everyone in the vicinity in danger.

These two thugs were caught on camera. The law will sort them out. You citizens with your CCW who want to be vigilantes are such a joke wanting to be rambos.

You want to really learn how to self-defend? Learn martial arts.
 
Reba said:
Where did it say the 117 deaths were "unlawful" killings?
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I was basing that on the source site saying the shooters were convicted of a crime. Some of the cases are still pending and may be tossed out, though, so that number could certainly decrease.
 
jillio said:
Obviously, it wasn't home invasions. The perpetrators were criminally charged.
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That's not necessarily true. In some states you're automatically charged even if it is a home invasion and it's tossed out later. Some states have castle laws where the benefit of the doubt is given to the home owner, but not all...mine, for example. Some states, such as Hawaii and New Jersey, impose a "duty to retreat" that requires the homeowner to leave the home if possible, which can force a trial to determine whether the shooting of an intruder was justified. So home invasions in those cases *would* be included.
 
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