One dead in movie theater shooting in Florida

[Foxrac]

You are not understanding what Steinhauer is asking you. He says that retired police officers in Florida can go into a movie theatre that has signs saying, "No Guns Allowed" but does not apply to the retired policeman. He is also talking/asking you about Florida now. He wants you to show that retired police officers are NOT exempt from the "No Guns Allowed" in movie theaters in Florida.

I understand him, beside his phrase with legal weight. It looks like you are not reviewing entire thread - we are arguing into many pages.

Steinhauer claimed that HR 218 allows retired cop to carry the gun in private properties that originally where guns are prohibited, but I just backed with source about HR 218 doesn't exempt retired cop and they have to respect the private properties that where gun is prohibited. I know on-duty and off-duty cops are allowed to carry in anywhere, but for retired cops, they are subject to some restriction, but not same level as citizens who never work in law enforcement.

There are many mixed up with posts over this forum so I don't give **** about those argument - that's not important to me.

 

[Reba]

Yes, I know, so that why I said worse.

If anyone carry gun without permit into movie theater and manager ask them to leave, if they respect manager's order so LEO won't know, unless they get pulled over on road or outside. If they don't respect manager's order so LEO could charge - trespassing and carry gun without permit, so that why I said worse - more charge.

If the gun is concealed (hidden), the manager won't know the patron has a gun.

If someone comes in waving a gun around at people, I doubt the manager will ask the person to leave. He will have a bigger problem to worry about.

 

[Steinhauer]

What is legal weight means? Your phrase doesn't make sense, so that why I don't understand about what are you talking about.

Also, you are dishonest about I made claim that retired cop broke the law by carrying the gun - it looks like you have problem with reading and I never claim that retired cop broke the law for carrying guns, but I clearly stated about movie theater's rule.

Legal weight - enforceable by law.

 

[Foxrac]

Ask them to leave? How does the manager know he has a gun?

You ask same question that Reba asked above.

No, unless they expose the gun to public.

 

[Foxrac]

Legal weight - enforceable by law.

Ok, carry guns in private properties that where gun is prohibited, isn't violation of gun law, but owner or manager can ask them to leave or getting arrested for trespassing.

It is just trespassing law, not gun law.

 

[Tousi]

You ask same question that Reba asked above.

No, unless they expose the gun to public.

Right but now the manager has a problem but that isn't the point here.

You are correct in that I have not read every response here so I'll concede that you have found information to the contrary and see what Steinhauer says about it......

 

[Steinhauer]

I understand him, beside his phrase with legal weight. It looks like you are not reviewing entire thread - we are arguing into many pages.

Steinhauer claimed that HR 218 allows retired cop to carry the gun in private properties that originally where guns are prohibited, but I just backed with source about HR 218 doesn't exempt retired cop and they have to respect the private properties that where gun is prohibited. I know on-duty and off-duty cops are allowed to carry in anywhere, but for retired cops, they are subject to some restriction, but not same level as citizens who never work in law enforcement.

There are many mixed up with posts over this forum so I don't give **** about those argument - that's not important to me.

I had actually said I **think** there are exemptions for qualified retired police officers but was not sure, since HR 218 was signed into law in 2004, and that there have been many changes since then regarding firearms laws.

I hope that was at least more clear.

I am focusing on the actual firearms laws that apply to Curtis Reeves. State, local and Federal laws were not violated. Carrying concealed (with a permit/either HR 218 or State) in a business that is displaying a sign prohibiting firearms is not illegal. the only time it is illegal, is if it is in a place considered off limits. Movie Theaters are not in the list of places considered off limits.

 

[Reba]

You ask same question that Reba asked above.

No, unless they expose the gun to public.

Therefor, people carrying concealed weapons will never be asked by management to leave a theater (unless they're texting or committing some other offense.)

 

[Foxrac]

I had actually said I **think** there are exemptions for qualified retired police officers but was not sure, since HR 218 was signed into law in 2004, and that there have been many changes since then regarding firearms laws.

I hope that was at least more clear.

I am focusing on the actual firearms laws that apply to Curtis Reeves. State, local and Federal laws were not violated. Carrying concealed (with a permit/either HR 218 or State) in a business that is displaying a sign prohibiting firearms is not illegal. the only time it is illegal, is if it is in a place considered off limits. Movie Theaters are not in the list of places considered off limits.

Well, I only said retired cop broke movie theater's rule, not law, that it.

 

[Foxrac]

Therefor, people carrying concealed weapons will never be asked by management to leave a theater (unless they're texting or committing some other offense.)

Ok, but is it ok for anyone to ignore "no gun allowed" sign?

I believe in "respect".

I think many businesses don't allow anyone to carry gun in their place for insurance purpose - many insurance companies dislike any businesses that allow anyone to carry guns, that where insurance policies cover businesses.

If you don't like business's no gun sign, so please go after insurance companies, in my opinion.

 

[Bebonang]

Ok, carry guns in private properties that where gun is prohibited, isn't violation of gun law, but owner or manager can ask them to leave or getting arrested for trespassing.

It is just trespassing law, not gun law.

That does not make any sense coming from you, Foxrax. Gun were prohibited in any public places, especially movie theater. It is violation of carrying guns into the public places. It is not the 1930 mobsters or gangsters killing patrons into the public places like the restaurant which was very bad and need to be violated from the premises.

Also the trespassing is not related to public places except on lands or private lots which are prohibited. People have a right to go into public places for entertainment or eating or for sports. The word "trespassing" is not the correct word for the movie theater. It is not trespassing. Geeze :roll:

 

[Foxrac]

Right but now the manager has a problem but that isn't the point here.

You are correct in that I have not read every response here so I'll concede that you have found information to the contrary and see what Steinhauer says about it......

My original quote about retired cop broke movie theater rule, not law.
http://www.alldeaf.com/2271714-post164.html

I posted a link about HR 218 FAQ - HR 218 is federal law, so state laws could be different. I couldn't find any statue about retired cop, but I know on-duty cop and off-duty cop are free to carry guns in any places, even where gun is prohibited.
http://www.alldeaf.com/2271730-post168.html

I think it already served on purpose after Stein and I claimed about trespassing.

 

[Foxrac]

That does not make any sense coming from you, Foxrax. Gun were prohibited in any public places, especially movie theater. It is violation of carrying guns into the public places. It is not the 1930 mobsters or gangsters killing patrons into the public places like the restaurant which was very bad and need to be violated from the premises.

Also the trespassing is not related to public places except on lands or private lots which are prohibited. People have a right to go into public places for entertainment or eating or for sports. The word "trespassing" is not the correct word for the movie theater. It is not trespassing. Geeze :roll:

It looks like you haven't read entire of this thread and you are wrong.

Movie theater is private property that open to public, courthouse is public property that open to public.

Public property - owned by government.

Private property - owned by citizens or private companies.

Carry guns into private property that where gun is prohibited, is result in unwelcome guest and the owner, or manager can ask you to leave, or you can be arrested for trespassing.

Do you understand now?

I have spent a lot of my work to explain and clarified that members could understand about what I means. I'm going off to eat lunch now.

 

[Reba]

Ok, but is it ok for anyone to ignore "no gun allowed" sign?

What if there is no sign? Did the theater have a sign?

The law (in SC) requires exact specifications for no-gun signs. If they don't meet the requirements, they aren't legal.

 

[Foxrac]

What if there is no sign? Did the theater have a sign?

The law (in SC) requires exact specifications for no-gun signs. If they don't meet the requirements, they aren't legal.

No sign = it means carry guns into business is allowed - no question.

I believe most movie theaters have signs and rules in front entrance, some people overlook and some ignore those sign.

 

[CrazyPaul]

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/florida.pdf

Do “No Gun Signs” Have the Force of Law?

“NO”

“Handgunlaw.us highly recommends that you not enter a place that is posted "No Firearms" no matter what the state laws read/mean on signage. We recommend you print out the No Guns = No Money Cards and give one to the owner of the establishment that has the signage." As responsible gun owners and upholders of the 2nd Amendment we should also honor the rights of property owners to control their own property even if we disagree with them.”

“No Firearm” signs in Florida have no force of law unless they are posted on property that is specifically mentioned in State Law as being off limits to those with a Permit/License to Carry. If you are in a place not specifically mentioned in the law that is posted and they ask you to leave, you must leave. If you refuse to leave then you are breaking the law and can be charged. Even if the property is not posted and you are asked to leave you must leave. Always be aware of the possibility that responding Police Officers who may have been called without your knowledge and may not know the laws on trespass etc. could arrest you even if you are within the law.

 

[Foxrac]

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/florida.pdf

You explained better than Stein did.

 

[CrazyPaul]

No firearms sign at AMC Movie Theater

One commenter said,

I disregard them too. All they can do is tell me to leave for the first offense if I get caught. The second offense or if I refuse to leave, it's a trespassing charge and that can get my CHL revoked.

So if you carry a gun into the same theater again, you will be arrested even if they didn't ask you to leave.

 

[Steinhauer]

You explained better than Stein did.

He was using the link I posted

 

[Foxrac]

He was using the link I posted

I reviewed entire of this thread and you don't have same quote as CrazyPaul did #277.

I had no idea about your phrase, especially saying "legal weight".

This thread has ballooning into many pages now and there are not many members would read entire of this thread. If you give a clear phrase, or more easy to cite quote about force of law, so I could understand better and this thread won't fly into many pages.