One dead in movie theater shooting in Florida

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Frisky Feline said:
retire cop could have gotten the refund and come back. it costs around 12 bucks.
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There was nothing "good" about this incident. Two guys butting heads in public and neither one having the sense to just drop it and walk away.

I actually do think a retired cop should be held a bit more responsible than the average Joe. That isn't a judgement call, just a very biased opinion.
 
CrazyPaul said:
[
Stein, those signs are enforced by law.
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We are talking about Florida ... you know, where the incident happened. And in Florida, signs prohibiting firearms on private property accessible to the public, like the movie theater where this shooting took place (in Florida), do not hold any legal weight.

You can do a tap dance, play hopscotch, jumprope and the hokey pokey all you want to, but it does not change the fact that in Florida, this retired police officer was violating no laws whatsoever by carrying concealed in that movie theater.
 
Reba said:
Not necessarily.

First, the prohibition has to be legally posted (there are rules about the signage that some places don't observe).

Second, retired, off-duty, and on-duty law officials are exempt from most "no gun" notices.
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In bold, that's incorrect.

Is the exemption provided by the law total—can I now carry anywhere at any time?

No. The new law exempts all qualified active and retired law enforcement officers from State and local laws with respect to the carrying of concealed firearms. These officers are not exempt from Federal law or regulation, which governs the carriage of firearms onto aircraft or other “common carriers,” Federal buildings, Federal property, or national parks.

In addition, State (not local) laws which prohibit the carriage of firearms onto State or local government property and State (not local) laws which allow private entities to prohibit firearms on their private property would still apply to qualified active and retired law enforcement officers.
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http://www.fop.net/legislative/issues/hr218/hr218faq.pdf (Page 4)

Movie theater is part of private property so retired cops can't carry guns inside if movie theater doesn't allow them.

See my post.
http://www.alldeaf.com/2271730-post168.html
 
Beowulf said:
This is the end of Western Civilization. :D
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When I worked at a movie theater (1969-70), we had regular police presence throughout the day/evening without having to hire police. (It was a one large theater downtown, main street; not a mall multiplex.) The foot patrolman stopped by for a drink or scoop of popcorn on each pass of the street. He would give us an escort to the bank for deposits. He would stop and chat with us often. During off duty he and his family would come to the theater to watch the movies (gratis). During crowds that might need more supervision, we had a uniformed officer there during the whole show. It was a comfortable relationship. We never had any disruptions at our theater. Our ushers were quick to resolve any problems before they became serious. Our daytime usher was an elderly gentleman, and the evening/weekend ushers were high school students.

I don't know if any of the patrons were packing heat.
 
One last thought about concealed carry in theaters.

Unless you scan and frisk all patrons at the entrance, how do you enforce a no-gun rule?
 
Foxrac, here, I will give you a head start and something to work with.

Florida Statute 790.06 (12) lists places that are completely off limits to a person with a Florida Concealed Carry Permit:
Any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05 (a place of nuisance is where criminal gang activity takes place, not a movie theater)

any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station;

any detention facility, prison, or jail;

any courthouse; any courtroom, except that nothing in this section would preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in his or her courtroom;

any polling place;

any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district;

any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof;

any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms;

any school administration building;

any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose;
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Are any of the above mentioned off limits places a movie theater? Is there any mention of private property open to the public with a sign prohibiting firearms?
 
Steinhauer said:
Ok, where is the Florida Statute that clearly states signs carry legal weight?

I am not asking about Mississippi, Nevada, New York, Illinois or any other State ... just Florida.
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There is no such about "legal weight" and you made up your claim, even your source doesn't support your claim.

Seriously, I'm not interested to discuss with anyone who make nonsense statement, especially you.
 
Steinhauer said:
Foxrac, here, I will give you a head start and something to work with.

Florida Statute 790.06 (12) lists places that are completely off limits to a person with a Florida Concealed Carry Permit:

Are any of the above mentioned off limits places a movie theater? Is there any mention of private property open to the public with a sign prohibiting firearms?
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In private properties, the manager can ask you to leave if they see you carrying gun in their property that doesn't allow guns, so if not then you can get arrested for trespassing.

It is best for citizens to respect their sign.
 
Foxrac said:
There is no such about "legal weight" and you made up your claim, even your source doesn't support your claim.

Seriously, I'm not interested to discuss with anyone who make nonsense statement, especially you.
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That isn't true - you are now claiming I am a liar, and I asked you to prove your claim ... you have provided no actual proof, or even evidence, that signs prohibiting firearms (in Florida) carry any legal weight.

They don't. You were also the person claiming that this retired police officer was breaking the law when he carry concealed in the movie theater ... that was also a lie. You have been unable to back that claim up with any Florida Statute. Basically, what you have been doing is espousing nonsense.

here is the rest of the off limits section of Florida Statute 792.06 (12)



any elementary or secondary school facility; any area vocational -technical center; any college or university facility unless the licensee is a registered student, employee, or faculty member of such college or university and the weapon is a stun gun or non - lethal electric weapon or device designed solely for defensive purposes and the weapon does not fire a dart or projectile;
(See Note in Parking Lot Storage Section)

inside the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport, provided that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, which firearm is encased for shipment for purposes of checking such firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft; or any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law
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Did you happen to notice that there is absolutely nothing at all mentioned about movie theaters? there is also no mention, whatsoever, about private businesses open to the public that have a no weapons policy or a sign prohibiting weapons?
 
Foxrac said:
In private properties, the manager can ask you to leave if they see you carrying gun in their property that doesn't allow guns, so if not then you can get arrested for trespassing.
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If someone is carrying concealed, that means no one can see the gun.

It is best for citizens to respect their sign.
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We do. We can take our business elsewhere.
 
I'm curious--has anyone seen a picture or read a description of the no-gun signage used at the Florida movie theater? If so, do you have a link to share?
 
Steinhauer said:
That isn't true - you are now claiming I am a liar, and I asked you to prove your claim ... you have provided no actual proof, or even evidence, that signs prohibiting firearms (in Florida) carry any legal weight.

They don't. You were also the person claiming that this retired police officer was breaking the law when he carry concealed in the movie theater ... that was also a lie. You have been unable to back that claim up with any Florida Statute.
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Excuse me, you are grossly misunderstood - I never claim that retired police officer broke the law. I'm saying that retired police officer broke movie theater's policy about doesn't allow to carry weapons - policy/rule and law are different. HR 218 doesn't cover private properties that doesn't allow to carry weapons into movie theater and if manager knows that they carry, so they can asked to leave, if not then they can be arrested for trespassing.

Show me - where I say about retired police officer broke the law by carried the gun into movie theater?
 
If a permit holder is carrying concealed in a place of business that has a no weapons policy, they are not violating any laws in the State of Florida. Even if there is a sign clearly indicating that no weapons are allowed. They cannot be arrested, because signs (in Florida) carry no legal weight whatsoever. There is no Florida Statute, no law, granting any enforceable action period.

The only right the business owner has, is to ask that the patron leave. If the patron refuses to leave, they can then be arrested for trespassing.

That is all :wave:
 
Reba said:
If someone is carrying concealed, that means no one can see the gun.

We do. We can take our business elsewhere.
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In bold, they are supposed not and when their weapon is exposed to public, so manager will know.

It is your choice, but I don't care about no firearm allowed sign - I just respect them, that it.
 
Foxrac said:
Excuse me, you are grossly misunderstood - I never claim that retired police officer broke the law. I'm saying that retired police officer broke movie theater's policy about doesn't allow to carry weapons - policy/rule and law are different. HR 218 doesn't cover private properties that doesn't allow to carry weapons into movie theater and if manager knows that they carry, so they can asked to leave, if not then they can be arrested for trespassing.

Show me - where I say about retired police officer broke the law by carried the gun into movie theater?
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Excuse me, but you were the one claiming the police officer was breaking the law when I mentioned signs carry no legal weight in Florida.

I have since provided all the evidence, and all the relevant statutes - but you have still not provided the actual firearms policy of Cobb Theaters. They have exemptions for law enforcement officers and other qualified individuals - but you decided to omit that - to paint this retired police officer as a "lawbreaker" out looking for trouble didn't you?

You perhaps thought that if someone is arrested at any Cobb Theater, that law enforcement officers must disarm before entering their property?


http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/florida.pdf
 
Steinhauer said:
Excuse me, but you were the one claiming the police officer was breaking the law when I mentioned signs carry no legal weight in Florida.

I have since provided all the evidence, and all the relevant statutes - but you have still not provided the actual firearms policy of Cobb Theaters. They have exemptions for law enforcement officers and other qualified individuals - but you decided to omit that - to paint this retired police officer as a "lawbreaker" out looking for trouble didn't you?
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In bold - show me.

Movie theater policy doesn't allow any patrons to carry guns, it is according on news link.

Rules for the theater

Meanwhile, Cobb Theatres, which operates the Grove complex, released a statement: "This was an isolated altercation between two guests that escalated unexpectedly. The safety, security and comfort of our guests and team members are always our top priorities, and we are truly heartbroken by this incident."

A list of prohibited items and behavior in their theaters is on the theater website. On the list: no cell phone use, including texting, in the theater auditorium. And no weapons allowed.
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http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/14/justice/florida-movie-theater-shooting/

Retired police officers are not same as on-duty and off-duty police officers.
 
I found it.

At CinéBistro, we are dedicated to ensuring a quality movie experience for all guests. For this reason, please note our Zero Tolerance Policy regarding the following:

Use of cell phone (including talking and/or texting) or other electronic devices while inside the auditorium is strictly prohibited.

No excessive or loud talking.

No use of profanity.

No disruptive behaviors of any kind, including signs of intoxication.

No outside food or beverage of any kind.

Opened or unopened alcohol is not permitted to be taken out of the building.

CinéBistro is committed to being a drug-free environment. No possession and/or use of illegal drugs of any kind.

No possession of weapons of any kind is permitted on property.

Proper and neat attire at the sole discretion of Management.

Recording or taking still photos of any performance is a crime and will be prosecuted.

Not responsible for lost or stolen items left behind.

Please report any of these instances to Management. Failure to adhere to any of these policies will result in expulsion from the premise. No refunds given.
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CinéBistro | CinéBistro at Grove 16
 
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