Lies about CI's

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deafbajagal said:
I have a good friend who is oral deaf. He can speak almost like a hearing person, almost perfect. All his life he wore hearing aids. Two years ago he got a CI. He went to therapy, etc. to get used to it.

He tells me that it doesn't work for him. His brain simply cannot interpret sounds the way he wanted it to. The CI specialist just shrugged his shoulders and said, "It wasn't meant to be."

Another friend of mine is very easily his twin. They are alike in many ways, and she also wanted a CI. She got one and almost immediately loved it. She now is getting another one.

It puzzles me how some people benefits from it, and others don't. They keep telling me, some people are wired for it...some are not.

I think this is what some of the posters are talking about when they say they want a "guarantee" that this will work before they choose it for themselves or for their child.
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I know some kids who were implanted later who did better than some kids who got implanted in their toddler years.

Vice versa as well.

Like you said, where do we draw the line?
 
deafbajagal said:
I have a good friend who is oral deaf. He can speak almost like a hearing person, almost perfect. All his life he wore hearing aids. Two years ago he got a CI. He went to therapy, etc. to get used to it.

He tells me that it doesn't work for him. His brain simply cannot interpret sounds the way he wanted it to. The CI specialist just shrugged his shoulders and said, "It wasn't meant to be."

Another friend of mine is very easily his twin. They are alike in many ways, and she also wanted a CI. She got one and almost immediately loved it. She now is getting another one.

It puzzles me how some people benefits from it, and others don't. They keep telling me, some people are wired for it...some are not.

I think this is what some of the posters are talking about when they say they want a "guarantee" that this will work before they choose it for themselves or for their child.
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I can't agree with that more !!! :) I'm in the situation as #1 where there just wouldn't have been much improvement. That's why I didn't get one, but I had planned to. I had big hopes on it. Took my whole family and SO with me to the CI audi.
 
deafgal001 said:
So is it true that earlier the better?
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Yes. It has been shown again and again. They have done studies that show that kids implanted before age 18 months have auditory cortexes that process spoken language like hearing kids, not deaf kids. (they aren't hearing, they just process spoken language in the same way, at the same speeds as hearing kids.)
 
faire_jour said:
Yes. It has been shown again and again. They have done studies that show that kids implanted before age 18 months have auditory cortexes that process spoken language like hearing kids, not deaf kids. (they aren't hearing, they just process spoken language in the same way, at the same speeds as hearing kids.)
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Exactly right.

Problem is, auditory processing and auditory comprehension isn't the same thing. That's where intervention with therapy and training is very crucial to increase the success of the CI as a device.

And there's no guarantee it will work for everyone.
 
deafbajagal said:
Exactly right.

Problem is, auditory processing and auditory comprehension isn't the same thing. That's where intervention with therapy and training is very crucial to increase the success of the CI as a device.

And there's no guarantee it will work for everyone.
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Yes, but if we continue to spread the myth that "some kids just can't", kids will continue to fall behind and not get the benefits they could, if they had just been given the right tools.
 
"some kids CAN" that make them fall behind too. Of course they can with the right accomdation. accomdation rarely ever make kids fall through cracks.
 
faire_jour said:
I think all kids can. They just need appropriate services, follow up, therapy, professionals, family support and access to language.
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I agree. They are born with their auditory cortexes intact ready to go.
 
For the parents who did just that...followed the recipe perfectly and with everything they have (appropriate services, follow ups, therapy, professionals, language access, and family support) and yet still experienced seeing their child fail...

I hope they don't read this. It will break their hearts.
 
deafbajagal said:
For the parents who did just that...followed the recipe perfectly and with everything they have (appropriate services, follow ups, therapy, professionals, language access, and family support) and yet still experienced seeing their child fail...

I hope they don't read this. It will break their hearts.
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But what would cause it? A deaf child's brain works just fine. Yes, there are kids who have other "issues" or have disabilities, processing issues or other barriers to learning or using spoken language but if we are talking about a typical, early identified, early "intervention'ed" deaf child who uses appropriate technology and has involved parents and professionals, I believe they will become a fluent spoken language user. (Also, if they begin to have struggles, they would have parents and professional who would intervene before they fell behind and it caused issues).

But, this in no way means that ASL is bad or would not be of great benefit.
 
faire_jour said:
But what would cause it? A deaf child's brain works just fine. Yes, there are kids who have other "issues" or have disabilities, processing issues or other barriers to learning or using spoken language but if we are talking about a typical, early identified, early "intervention'ed" deaf child who uses appropriate technology and has involved parents and professionals, I believe they will become a fluent spoken language user. (Also, if they begin to have struggles, they would have parents and professional who would intervene before they fell behind and it caused issues).

But, this in no way means that ASL is bad or would not be of great benefit.
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for them, probably nothing other than just jumbles like your daughter's hearing aids.
 
faire_jour said:
But what would cause it? A deaf child's brain works just fine. Yes, there are kids who have other "issues" or have disabilities, processing issues or other barriers to learning or using spoken language but if we are talking about a typical, early identified, early "intervention'ed" deaf child who uses appropriate technology and has involved parents and professionals, I believe they will become a fluent spoken language user. (Also, if they begin to have struggles, they would have parents and professional who would intervene before they fell behind and it caused issues).

But, this in no way means that ASL is bad or would not be of great benefit.
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The brain is fine, but "SPEECH PERCEPTION" is the issue...it's a very complex process that has to happen, with many components involved. This is where many CI specialists, surgeons, and CI research centers such as Med-El are at loss for words (no pun intended)...they can get the auditory processing going with the CI...which means the brain is doing what it is supposed to be doing and the CI is working fine. But the processing of speech perception is out of their control...speech and language therapy and intervention helps but there are times that the child's processing of speech perception and auditory processing just doesn't cross lines. There is no click. It doesn't mean the child has a hidden disability. It means the child isn't wired to accept the artificial device and for it to cross with the speech perception processing. This is the reason when patients sign the form to do the implant, the paperwork states there are not guarantee the implant, even with treatment and proper follow-up visits, will work. Which is why many kids with CI end up using manual communication (not always ASL), because speech perception processing doesn't use the visual cortex aspect of language processing. But they can hear and recognize sounds really well.

Research is still going on it to find the missing link about what makes kids "click."
 
deafbajagal said:
The brain is fine, but "SPEECH PERCEPTION" is the issue...it's a very complex process that has to happen, with many components involved. This is where many CI specialists, surgeons, and CI research centers such as Med-El are at loss for words (no pun intended)...they can get the auditory processing going with the CI...which means the brain is doing what it is supposed to be doing and the CI is working fine. But the processing of speech perception is out of their control...speech and language therapy and intervention helps but there are times that the child's processing of speech perception and auditory processing just doesn't cross lines. There is no click. It doesn't mean the child has a hidden disability. It means the child isn't wired to accept the artificial device and for it to cross with the speech perception processing. This is the reason when patients sign the form to do the implant, the paperwork states there are not guarantee the implant, even with treatment and proper follow-up visits, will work. Which is why many kids with CI end up using manual communication (not always ASL), because speech perception processing doesn't use the visual cortex aspect of language processing. But they can hear and recognize sounds really well.

Research is still going on it to find the missing link about what makes kids "click."
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But of the hundreds of kids with CIs that I know, there are 2 that do not get spoken language benefit. Why is it that so many do? I really believe that it is extremely rare, and in fact, both that I know have follow up and audiological issues that would explain their lack of progress. I just don't believe that there are kids that get all the right things and then still don't.
 
deafdyke said:
. Exactly. They no longer need hyperintense instruction in speech b/c of that. Hoh kids can pick up spoken language incidently and without hyperintense instruction, as long as they have a base to build on.

Oh really? Then how come you guys added a private speech therapist?
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Please explain how having a S&L therapist made it impossible for my daughter to acquire language incidentally and/or peripherally?

Love the anti cochlear implant crew. When a deaf child begins intensive ASL therapy its called "language immersion" but when the deaf child begins post-ci oral therapy its labeled "hyper intense instruction" One has a positive connotation the other a negative one.

I think you need some "hyper intensive" instruction in basic logical and critical thinking.

BTW ever going to provide those sources to back up your unsubstantiated claims about ci kids?

Rick
 
deafbajagal said:
The CI is like a fancy car. But it cannot run by itself. You need gas and a driver who is ready. Gas is the therapy...sometimes you need to keep filling it up before the car is ready to go. In the meantime the driver has to be ready, too.

I've seen cars with fuel, ready to go. But the driver isn't ready. I've seen cars with drivers, but no fuel.

Not all of us are meant to be car drivers. Some deaf children has to take a different route.

Your daughter is a natural driver...and she's ready to go! ZOOM. Many children with CIs need more fuel, or they are simply not ready. And some, no matter how hard they try, they will never be able to drive the car. I don't know if my analogy makes sense or not.
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If you take two infants, both born to hearing parents with no knowlege of ASL, who lose their hearing at age 9 months. One infant begins to learn ASL, the other gets a ci and begins post-ci oral speech therapy.

Like the car in your example neither infant is going to acquire the chosen language unless the parents pour gasoline into thier tanks. You can call one "language immersion" and the other "therapy" but that is just semantics. Neither infant is going to acquire language without a lot of tremendous amount of parental support and from sources outside the family as well.
Rick
 
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