Let's hit this off...

[posts from hell]

Very poorly written article. First off, I highly doubt there are 100,000 audiologists/SLP in this country. For example, there are only 10,000 members in the American Academy of Audiologists. Now, certainly there are many who slip through the cracks, but this "conservative estimate" is very speculative. For me, that creates a big problem with the writers' ethos. If they can't even take the time to research a hard number, why should I believe the rest of what they?

Second, there is really no logically inductive argument being made here. The authors do not make a claim or warrant and back them up with sound reasoning. Rather, I just see speculation and implied argumentation, which is not effective. If you got something to say, say it, and say it effectively.

Even if I agree that the deaf/hoh are exploited in this country, I think this was a poorly done article. Ryan Commerson impressed me with his "Redefining DEAF" video (though some of the references to philosophers and social theorists like Foucalt were appropriated at best, and misinterpreted at worse), but this is lousy.


Edit:

According to this link, there were 11,000 audiologists in the US in 2002: Audiologist Career | Free Audiology Career Advice and Audiologist Job Tips

According to this link, there are 110,000 Speech and language pathologists. But you have to remember, that the vast majority of SLPs work with hearing students who have speech impediments unrelated to hearing: Speech-Language Pathologist - Career Information

Membership Profile: Highlights and Trends ... 140,000... It shows the article is correct.

Click the link in the VERY FIRST line of this thread .. the one "2" very top... it has sources and such on bottom. They did their research.

 

[TWA]

Membership Profile: Highlights and Trends ... 140,000... It shows the article is correct.

Click the link in the VERY FIRST line of this thread .. the one "2" very top... it has sources and such on bottom. They did their research.

The vast majority of those do not work directly with deaf people. Trust me. Speech pathology, as a profession, has a very limited focus on deafness. They are concerned with A LOT more things than hearing loss induced speech disorders.

Failure to keep this mind just further damages the writers' ethos, IMO.

 

[Bebonang]

I could see that Deafies are not worth a cent if we are not hired to be able to handle the job without the accommodation like no TTY and no interpreters. Hearing people are worth making a lot of money working with no problem without accommodation. For us, Deafies, we are suckers with minimum wages or go on SSI or SSDI because nobody want to hire us. That is what make me mad.

 

[posts from hell]

The vast majority of those do not work directly with deaf people. Trust me. Speech pathology, as a profession, has a very limited focus on deafness. They are concerned with A LOT more things than hearing loss induced speech disorders.

Failure to keep this mind just further damages the writers' ethos, IMO.

If everyone spoke ASL.... that cost wouldnt be there, right?

 

[TWA]

If everyone spoke ASL.... that cost wouldnt be there, right?

Of course not. I don't have a problem with the argument the article is TRYING to make; it's just the method they go about doing it.

I am disgusted by the exploitation of deafness. If you think this is bad, you should check out the linguistic research that is done on signed language. The vast majority of researchers in the field are hearing, and very few of them have a strong grasp of the signed language they study. I saw this firsthand at the TISLR conference in September.


Maybe I should just write the damn article myself.

 

[sheila022]

I could see that Deafies are not worth a cent if we are not hired to be able to handle the job without the accommodation like no TTY and no interpreters. Hearing people are worth making a lot of money working with no problem without accommodation. For us, Deafies, we are suckers with minimum wages or go on SSI or SSDI because nobody want to hire us. That is what make me mad.

unless you go into technical careers where jobs rely mostly on brainpower and are not that communication-heavy, such as writing codes, lab technician, engineer, etc. Then, it's a matter of showing or proving your worth to your employers. And oh, don't forget to network well.

I was told that the average cost for accommodation for people with disabilities is $500, according to the VP of the Goldman Sachs HR department in her presentation.

 

[sheila022]

Of course not. I don't have a problem with the argument the article is TRYING to make; it's just the method they go about doing it.

I am disgusted by the exploitation of deafness. If you think this is bad, you should check out the linguistic research that is done on signed language. The vast majority of researchers in the field are hearing, and very few of them have a strong grasp of the signed language they study. I saw this firsthand at the TISLR conference in September.


Maybe I should just write the damn article myself.

go ahead, write it, just like your username ;P

 

[posts from hell]

Of course not. I don't have a problem with the argument the article is TRYING to make; it's just the method they go about doing it.

I am disgusted by the exploitation of deafness. If you think this is bad, you should check out the linguistic research that is done on signed language. The vast majority of researchers in the field are hearing, and very few of them have a strong grasp of the signed language they study. I saw this firsthand at the TISLR conference in September.


Maybe I should just write the damn article myself.

Yeah. the people behind this article are a bit radical. I wouldn't be surprised if they got the idea from me..... I made a vlog on this a while back.

 

[Jiro]

Like yourself, PFH who never finished college. Maybe you want to go back to school and set an example for the younger generation of deafies? :P

that's uncalled for, sheila. I know ya'all know that I still think PFH is a disgusting man but this is a fact - he does not live like a lazy leecher... collecting welfare checks for himself and do nothing to improve himself. The fact is he has done a lot for deaf people, encourage them to stand up and be somebody to contribute something to society.

So sheila... since you want to use a cheapshot like that.. here's a question for you - what have you done for us, MIT? Figured out a solution for our energy crisis yet or what?

 

[Jiro]

How do you propose to do this? I have an impression PFH seems to want to make ASL mandatory for all deafies.

no.

Hire more qualified teachers? Better school facility? Etc? Are the teachers themselves qualified enough to teach students?

bingo. All the money spent on speech therapists, audiologists, hearing scientists, etc.... it can be better spent on more qualified teachers for deaf students because in the end - the deaf students will become productive citizens. Look at the result right now.... is it helping?

How can we encourage and nurture the children's ambitions and drive that can serve them later in life? Those things aren't easy to use money on. It's the attitudes amongst the parents, teachers, government, and society, not a matter of funding.

Oh really? It's the attitude and not the funding? really? That's a very nice optimism you have there like Jaime Escalante (from "Stand and Deliver" movie - true story) but I wonder if you would still have that optimism if you have a mountain of bills to pay... living a "overworked, underpaid" lifestyle. I wonder how long will you last with that kind of lifestyle.

look at shel and deafbagajal, for example... they're both deaf teachers for deaf schools. Both went beyond the call of duty to help the deaf kids who fell far behind from peers. They do not get a bonus nor extra pay nor a congratulatory award for it.

Teacher job's never easy - both hearing and deaf. I have dozens of friends who are elementary/high school teachers. They do not really get to relax once they get home. They have to do schedule planning and/or homework/test grading. They're knocked out by 9-10pm... wake up at around 5am. Hard life, eh?

 

[Jiro]

I think PFH is suggesting that ASL be mandatory for all humans, not just the deaf.

no. try again.

 

[nobody456]

How do you propose to do this? I have an impression PFH seems to want to make ASL mandatory for all deafies.

Hire more qualified teachers? Better school facility? Etc? Are the teachers themselves qualified enough to teach students?

How can we encourage and nurture the children's ambitions and drive that can serve them later in life? Those things aren't easy to use money on. It's the attitudes amongst the parents, teachers, government, and society, not a matter of funding.

Better mentors and deaf/HoH advocates.

Funding isn't as much of an issue as the attitudes of the professionals that probably aren't as well-rounded as a mentor could be. When I think about my childhood, there wasn't really anywhere there to put one event to the next event together. It was really one person in, one person out. Though, it was extremely helpful that I went to deaf camps because I could understand what it meant to be completely deaf and not be as confused just being exposed to only hearing kids. I wanted to be treated like an adult, but also someone who could relate.

I'd gladly volunteer for some deaf/HoH kids in a type of role like that.

 

[sheila022]

that's uncalled for, sheila. I know ya'all know that I still think PFH is a disgusting man but this is a fact - he does not live like a lazy leecher... collecting welfare checks for himself and do nothing to improve himself. The fact is he has done a lot for deaf people, encourage them to stand up and be somebody to contribute something to society.

So sheila... since you want to use a cheapshot like that.. here's a question for you - what have you done for us, MIT? Figured out a solution for our energy crisis yet or what?

Jiro, you're in for a strangulation and punching bag session from me the next time I see you. ^_^ <3

 

[sheila022]

Better mentors and deaf/HoH advocates.

Funding isn't as much of an issue as the attitudes of the professionals that probably aren't as well-rounded as a mentor could be. When I think about my childhood, there wasn't really anywhere there to put one event to the next event together. It was really one person in, one person out. Though, it was extremely helpful that I went to deaf camps because I could understand what it meant to be completely deaf and not be as confused just being exposed to only hearing kids. I wanted to be treated like an adult, but also someone who could relate.

I'd gladly volunteer for some deaf/HoH kids in a type of role like that.

Can you do that in your area? CA school for the deaf or something like that?

I"m considering doing it once I'm in Boston/Cambridge area.

 

[nobody456]

Can you do that in your area? CA school for the deaf or something like that?

I"m considering doing it once I'm in Boston/Cambridge area.

in Fremont; which is like ...guessing 120miles...Google maps....126 miles away from where I live. I started looking for positions there about a month ago. I found some counselor positions. I'm not really sure what their requirement of "proficiency" in ASL is, but I'm going to keep taking classes. We'll see what happens after the LSAT is done with.

I'll probably be doing more deaf social events and might run into some people who can point the way in a more direct mentor type program. We'll see.

 

[Jiro]

I don't really see a problem with the "high cost" complaint. Practically every person has some kind of physical disability (could even be something like higher risk of a disease due to genetic factors) that imposes a higher cost on society compared to if they didn't have it.

It's perfectly acceptable to spend money on this IMO.

lol you don't really see the problem because you see it from hearing perspective. Soon, I will take you to Boston DPHH or related and it will completely change your perspective.

.... well I hope

 

[Jiro]

I think this is more of a problem with people "slipping through the cracks" of the education system. Actually I would support putting more money into primary education if it would help fix this. That system has its share of hangups that make this easier said than done though.

so of all money poured into this... which yielded a pathetic result.... is it still perfectly acceptable to keep pouring more money in failed system? For the past 10+ years... it continued to yield a failed result. You, Sheila, and I are one of very few "successful oral deafies" (non-ASL) who happened to get lucky in life. You look around now and then figure out why there are so few "successful oral deafies" like us.

 

[Jiro]

A lot of that stuff is necessary though. Audiologists/CI surgery has had an overall positive effect on my life.

correction - you had qualified teachers, adequate school facility, and/or diligent parental involvement to make a positive effect on your life to ensure your future success. Because of that - you were able to get into good college. So why can't deaf kids have the same privilege as you had?

In fact - why should deaf kids go thru extra-hardship just to be on par with regular kids under oral-only program or poorly-funded/equipped program?

By pouring in money to ensure that deaf schools have more qualified teachers and adequate facility like hearing students do everywhere... they get to have the same privilege and opportunity as everybody else and they don't have to go thru extra-hardships to stay on par with hearing students.

 

[deafgal001]

What I've seen is alot of successul professionals who grew up ASL/English (and possibility spoken English too). Like ascdeaf.com

I would love to see more.

 

[deafgal001]

It's true, money are being spent on anything from a hearing prospective, here is professionals who are deaf and they are (or were) trying to close it : Save Deaf Studies