Let's hit this off...

[jillio]

People complain about the costs of deaf schools and they complain about deaf people not working.

Make up your minds, people!

Have programs that will employ a large number of deaf people or put deaf people out of jobs?

Which is it that they want?

Neither. They just want to complain about whatever conveniently fits their audist argument of the moment.

 

[shel90]

Neither. They just want to complain about whatever conveniently fits their audist argument of the moment.

It is just a shame. Many deaf people are contributing citizens due to these programs. Why would anyone want to take that away from us? It is sad.

 

[jillio]

It is just a shame. Many deaf people are contributing citizens due to these programs. Why would anyone want to take that away from us? It is sad.

It is sad. Unfortunately, most people don't think the consequences of what they propose all the way through. Especially hearing parents. They don't see their young children as full members of the deaf community, and judging by many of the things they say and do, they are hoping to prevent that happening by the time their kids are adults. (The old "my child is different" argument). Reality is gonna hit these people hard when as adults, their children are part of the community, and no matter what devise they have or how much speech therapy they went through, they will subjected to the same discrimination that deaf adults everywhere are.

 

[Sosie]

Deaf teachers are perfect role models for their deaf students!!! *shrug*

 

[posts from hell]

And the money that Deaf schools make from school districts?

"In 2000, Mohr et al. (2000) provided insight into the costs of providing students with a continuum of placement options. By their estimates the annual cost to run a residential school is around $53,200 per student. The cost of running a day school was significantly less at $28,200 per student. These numbers are compared to the annual cost of a self-contained classroom ($14,500), the cost of a resource room ($6,100), and finally the
cost of an inclusive program ($5,030)

"Over five billion dollars was devoted to instruction and related
services for deaf and hard of hearing students attending non-public school programs—" (in just one state)

What about interpreters? For every meeting, doctor appointment, college class, and on and on...

Your numbers are off, like always.

Neither. They just want to complain about whatever conveniently fits their audist argument of the moment.

The reason I straight up told FJ her numbers were off and I didnt want to hear any more of it - she didnt include interpreter costs.

How much is an interpreter for 1 year? $30,000 easily. Even at a $12 an hour wage.

Oh, the mainstream seeks out the cheapest resource possible too. So, that high school education of yours is through a $12-15/hour interpreter that couldn't find a good job in the freelance/contract world. Think about "why cant that interpreter find a good job else where" for a minute.

Just saying.

(And I would like to see where that $5billion went in that state *chuckles*)

 

[posts from hell]

And the 5 billion dollar tag.. I can see it now. Again, if audism didnt exist, the 5 billion dollar tag wouldnt exist - which is the point of this.

 

[MidnightSun]

The vast majority of those do not work directly with deaf people. Trust me. Speech pathology, as a profession, has a very limited focus on deafness. They are concerned with A LOT more things than hearing loss induced speech disorders.

Failure to keep this mind just further damages the writers' ethos, IMO.

I am not sure it damages the value of what the writer is trying to express. You are correct and having spent time at one of the world's BEST hospitals Johns Hopkins in Baltimore, I was treated by Dr Nimpaka, a leader in CI research and surgery. I saw first hand how the Speech Patholigists I worked with thereare almost "afraid " of the deaf. I read lips well and when my chart was handed to my assigned SP..her response to the Dr handing it to her was
"Don't you have anyone else I could work with? She's deaf. get a CI..duh"
at which point I walked up to her articulating and ennunciating every word. I told the DR that I did not want to be seen by this SP...and how sad it was that she had made an assumption that I would be boring or not show progress on her reports. Saying and knowing they are not concerned with hearing loss speech disorders, does not make it acceptable. My biggest problem with the deaf community, which I am now a part of, is they have not been given the support and self esteem to get what they need. This is not a blanket statement. There are many working and high functioning deaf and HOH but they got that way with the support of parents and teachers, now worn thin with the fight to keep their jobs. I know my worth as a person..deaf or not. I decide that. People treat you the way you allow them to. Demand respect.

 

[posts from hell]

I am not sure it damages the value of what the writer is trying to express. You are correct and having spent time at one of the world's BEST hospitals Johns Hopkins in Baltimore, I was treated by Dr Nimpaka, a leader in CI research and surgery. I saw first hand how the Speech Patholigists I worked with thereare almost "afraid " of the deaf. I read lips well and when my chart was handed to my assigned SP..her response to the Dr handing it to her was
"Don't you have anyone else I could work with? She's deaf. get a CI..duh"
at which point I walked up to her articulating and ennunciating every word. I told the DR that I did not want to be seen by this SP...and how sad it was that she had made an assumption that I would be boring or not show progress on her reports. Saying and knowing they are not concerned with hearing loss speech disorders, does not make it acceptable. My biggest problem with the deaf community, which I am now a part of, is they have not been given the support and self esteem to get what they need. This is not a blanket statement. There are many working and high functioning deaf and HOH but they got that way with the support of parents and teachers, now worn thin with the fight to keep their jobs. I know my worth as a person..deaf or not. I decide that. People treat you the way you allow them to. Demand respect.

Thanks... just thanks.

Nicely put.

 

[TWA]

I am not sure it damages the value of what the writer is trying to express. You are correct and having spent time at one of the world's BEST hospitals Johns Hopkins in Baltimore, I was treated by Dr Nimpaka, a leader in CI research and surgery. I saw first hand how the Speech Patholigists I worked with thereare almost "afraid " of the deaf. I read lips well and when my chart was handed to my assigned SP..her response to the Dr handing it to her was
"Don't you have anyone else I could work with? She's deaf. get a CI..duh"
at which point I walked up to her articulating and ennunciating every word. I told the DR that I did not want to be seen by this SP...and how sad it was that she had made an assumption that I would be boring or not show progress on her reports. Saying and knowing they are not concerned with hearing loss speech disorders, does not make it acceptable. My biggest problem with the deaf community, which I am now a part of, is they have not been given the support and self esteem to get what they need. This is not a blanket statement. There are many working and high functioning deaf and HOH but they got that way with the support of parents and teachers, now worn thin with the fight to keep their jobs. I know my worth as a person..deaf or not. I decide that. People treat you the way you allow them to. Demand respect.

You completely misinterpreted the point of that post I made. I was pointing out that much speech and language pathology is not related to hearing loss, and therefor they do not generate any sort of financial relationship with deafness. Speech disorders, as they relate to deafness, are old news in the SPL field. In fact, you prove my point by showing how inexperienced your initial SP was with deaf people. Much SLP research and/or practice being done today is not associated with deafness at all. Does that make more sense?

This DOES damage the writers' credibility because they were trying to create a statistic, a very generalized and arbitrarily derived statistic, by claiming that all SPLs are benefiting financially from deafness. That is just not the case, and when we use faulty reasoning like that, our very important and valid argument is weakened.

I agree with the article's fundamental argument that there is a lucrative business built up around deafness, and, yes, it makes me infuriated. BUT, when we make our arguments about these things, we need to be very careful with our rhetoric and research facts closely. We need to convert the unconverted, not preach to the choir, and making up random statistics is one of the least effective ways to gain sympathy.

Thanks... just thanks.

Nicely put.

Lol :roll:

 

[posts from hell]

You completely misinterpreted the point of that post I made. I was pointing out that much speech and language pathology is not related to hearing loss, and therefor they do not generate any sort of financial relationship with deafness. Speech disorders, as they relate to deafness, are old news in the SPL field. In fact, you prove my point by showing how inexperienced your initial SP was with deaf people. Much SLP research and/or practice being done today is not associated with deafness at all. Does that make more sense?

This DOES damage the writers' credibility because they were trying to create a statistic, a very generalized and arbitrarily derived statistic, by claiming that all SPLs are benefiting financially from deafness. That is just not the case, and when we use faulty reasoning like that, our very important and valid argument is weakened.

I agree with the article's fundamental argument that there is a lucrative business built up around deafness, and, yes, it makes me infuriated. BUT, when we make our arguments about these things, we need to be very careful with our rhetoric and research facts closely. We need to convert the unconverted, not preach to the choir, and making up random statistics is one of the least effective ways to gain sympathy.





Lol :roll:

knew you'd come in here bothered. thats been the trend

 

[TWA]

knew you'd come in here bothered. thats been the trend

So you just ignore what I wrote and the fact that you completely misinterpreted what I said, then pull the ol' "umad" card. Doesn't surprise me at all.

Seems to be a trend.

 

[deafskeptic]

If they think we are extremists, they should have been around a few years ago. There was an extremist here that would have chewed them up and spit them out!

No, they label us extremists because we take the deaf perspective and it disagrees with their hearing perspective. It is kind of like in the political threads when people throw out the word "socialist" as a way to invoke fear, but have no idea what a socialist is and have never encountered one. Same tactic, different thread and topic.

I remember her. lol I never thought that being a moderate, you would end in the crossfire between two extremes till I came to this forum. The extremists are the oralists and people like a certain someone who was a member of AD and had a rather sour outlook on things despite her sweet sounding name at AD.

 

[posts from hell]

So you just ignore what I wrote and the fact that you completely misinterpreted what I said, then pull the ol' "umad" card. Doesn't surprise me at all.

Seems to be a trend.

Yup I reallllly ignored it.

 

[jillio]

And the 5 billion dollar tag.. I can see it now. Again, if audism didnt exist, the 5 billion dollar tag wouldnt exist - which is the point of this.

Agreed. The 5 billion is necessary as a direct result of treating deafness from a hearing perspective rather than as a cultural and linguisitic difference.

The irony is, it is assumed that taking the hearing perspective, and treating deafness from a medical perspective, is less costly to society. And there are those that will tell you just exactly that.

 

[sallylou]

The money poured into medical research was completely wasted. I'm the 3rd generation hoh/deaf and researchers have made no progress. It's still the same as it was for my grandfather's generation. HAs and batteries have gotten smaller. lol

One reason that older Deaf people appreciate ASL so much is because they were physically prevented from signing when they were kids. At residential schools, no less.

 

[Beowulf]

And the 5 billion dollar tag.. I can see it now. Again, if audism didnt exist, the 5 billion dollar tag wouldnt exist - which is the point of this.

Yup. Let's form a coalition to rival OPEC's and start charging steeper fees. They are after all sucking the essence out of us and for their own profit.