Legal Showdown - Arizona's Immigration Law

[Jiro]

Mexico has already done "acts of war" on Americans.

You remember? 2 U.S. Government employees were shot and killed?

shot and killed by Mexican government?

 

[Foxrac]

No its not.

Wrong, it is...

Ask Jiro if he knows.

 

[Jiro]

I couldn't care less about what the north says, personally.

It's true Arizona asked for the Federal government to do it's job.....and the federal government made a half-assed attempt. Now when Arizona tries to do something about it.....people start their whining.

And talk about smokescreens. People in other states SAY they have questions about the AZ law but it is obvious they are more concerned with cockroach theory. The theory that says when the problem is treated in just one area it will just spread to the surrounding areas. Our federal government and liberals are content to contain the problem to certain regions rather than confront the problem.

then why didn't Republican Party didn't do anything about it under Bush administration? Perhaps there are cockroaches in GOP? In fact - why hasn't anybody done anything about it for past several decades?

Simple - a very convenient smokescreen to distract the public from real problem from time to time in case the public's getting real nosy!

Can you show me the fact or statistic or budget breakdown or anything concrete at all that Arizona's problem is LARGELY caused by illegal immigrants?

 

[TXgolfer]

and that's what Arizona did. They ran out of money. They were demanding the North to give more money. gimmi gimmi gimmi. Perhaps Arizona should focus on cracking down on employers and drug rings in its state first? Focus on what is attracting illegals to enter Arizona and it'll fix most of Arizona's problem.

Cracking down on employers doesn't work. I would be all for it if it did. Most illegals carry a fake ID and SS. That is the only proof an employer can ask for. Most illegals work as contract labor so the contractor has no way of knowing if that SS number is a fake until they get a letter from the IRS telling them that they 1099ed a fake SS (I have gotten these myself). Sometimes when an illegal is an actual employee the IRS will catch the fake SS when the w-4 is submitted.....but this takes at least several months (I have gotten these too)......illegals know this as well and often job hop. You can't punish an employer who asked for and received the required paperwork.

Now for employers who knowingly hire illegals without any papers at all......hell yeah......hit those employers where it hurts. But my guess is that less than 5% of all illegals are hired this way. Going after employers will in no way solve the problem

 

[Jiro]

We could make it legal to shoot them when they cross illegally.....Solves the prison problem for ya.

already done.

 

[Jiro]

Cracking down on employers doesn't work. I would be all for it if it did. Most illegals carry a fake ID and SS. That is the only proof an employer can ask for. Most illegals work as contract labor so the contractor has no way of knowing if that SS number is a fake until they get a letter from the IRS telling them that they 1099ed a fake SS (I have gotten these myself). Sometimes when an illegal is an actual employee the IRS will catch the fake SS when the w-4 is submitted.....but this takes at least several months (I have gotten these too)......illegals know this as well and often job hop. You can't punish an employer who asked for and received the required paperwork.

Now for employers who knowingly hire illegals without any papers at all......hell yeah......hit those employers where it hurts. But my guess is that less than 5% of all illegals are hired this way. Going after employers will in no way solve the problem

I don't care.

We must bring down the Thor's Hammer. We will teach them a lesson - be vigilant and careful of who you hire. After all - the employers are the one who are rewarding them with $$$$$$. If the employers are not sure and want to confirm their immigration status - then wait for confirmation and then hire them. That way - the illegals will have no choice but to look somewhere else..... like in other state with lax system.

Simply asking for documents? How convenient and lazy. "Hey - I did nothing wrong. All I did is ask for documents and they have it." Employers should go extra measure to confirm the authenticity of it.

It will solve Arizona's and Texas' problems

 

[TXgolfer]

then why didn't Republican Party didn't do anything about it under Bush administration? Perhaps there are cockroaches in GOP? In fact - why hasn't anybody done anything about it for past several decades?

Simple - a very convenient smokescreen to distract the public from real problem from time to time in case the public's getting real nosy!

Can you show me the fact or statistic or budget breakdown or anything concrete at all that Arizona's problem is LARGELY caused by illegal immigrants?

I am not from Arizona....not my problem. But I am willing to stay out of the way and let them handle their problems as they see fit.

Arizona residents still pay federal tax......they have the right to demand the federal government do it's job. If the Feds are short on cash maybe they should drop the robotic bee program.

 

[Jiro]

I am not from Arizona....not my problem. But I am willing to stay out of the way and let them handle their problems as they see fit.

but your state is the border state so you do have the same problem as Arizona.

Arizona residents still pay federal tax......they have the right to demand the federal government do it's job. If the Feds are short on cash maybe they should drop the robotic bee program.

There are already over 2,000 Border Patrol agents in Arizona... and only measly 200 Arizona National Guards? and still Arizona wants more?

more whining? gimmi gimmi gimmi? I'm sorry but as Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said "As you know, you go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time."

This is no different from whining and demanding Wal-Mart/Target/Post Office to hire more employees to man the checking-out lanes. Wait in the line and STFU

 

[Foxrac]

Put minefields on US-MEX border is very inhuman and against Geneva Convention.

Also, it is threaten to wildlife animals and hikers whoever want to hike on US-MEX border, especially Rio Grande.

 

[TXgolfer]

I don't care.

We must bring down the Thor's Hammer. We will teach them a lesson - be vigilant and careful of who you hire. After all - the employers are the one who are rewarding them with $$$$$$. If the employers are not sure and want to confirm their immigration status - then wait for confirmation and then hire them. That way - the illegals will have no choice but to look somewhere else..... like in other state with lax system.

Simply asking for documents? How convenient and lazy. "Hey - I did nothing wrong. All I did is ask for documents and they have it." Employers should go extra measure to confirm the authenticity of it.

It will solve Arizona's and Texas' problems

Yeah.....that's not racial profiling.:roll:

Employer: I think you would be an asset to this company
Applicant: So I got the job?
Employer: Hold your horses now, you are extremely tan. Gotta make sure you are here legally

Applicant: I gave you three references,DL,SS number
Employer: Paperwork can be faked and your references sounded.....ahem "tan" when I spoke to them on the phone

Applicant:I am legal
Employer: I believe ya....but to keep from paying a hefty fine I am going to have to check that number with the IRS. But you have my word...in four months if you prove to be legal you got the job. Well unless we hire a white person before then.

No lawsuit there.....lol

 

[TXgolfer]

but your state is the border state so you do have the same problem as Arizona.


There are already over 2,000 Border Patrol agents in Arizona... and only measly 200 Arizona National Guards? and still Arizona wants more?

more whining? gimmi gimmi gimmi? I'm sorry but as Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said "As you know, you go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time."

This is no different from whining and demanding Wal-Mart/Target/Post Office to hire more employees to man the checking-out lanes. Wait in the line and STFU

Why can't the robotic bees wait in line instead???? They would never know. Maybe, just maybe the people in AZ could take priority over the jaywalking turtles. We just spent $800 billion on bullshit.......Maybe we could shift some of that to national security.

 

[kokonut]

I see you have beat me to it on this one. We're already at war with 2 other countries and we don't need more wars given our strained budget.

Too late, the health care bill will soon help speed things up and break the budget, and money spent on health care will make money spent on those wars look like chump change.

 

[kokonut]

Why can't the robotic bees wait in line instead???? They would never know. Maybe, just maybe the people in AZ could take priority over the jaywalking turtles. We just spent $800 billion on bullshit.......Maybe we could shift some of that to national security.

You're right. National security takes priority over everything else. In fact, that's the president's first duty in office.

 

[Foxrac]

Why can't the robotic bees wait in line instead???? They would never know. Maybe, just maybe the people in AZ could take priority over the jaywalking turtles. We just spent $800 billion on bullshit.......Maybe we could shift some of that to national security.

Why are you trying to find anything that is inhuman and threat to wild animals; and hikers whoever legally to hike in near border. Shoot the illegal immigrants, put minefields on border and put robotic bees are just inhuman. National Guards are one of best solution to patrol the border if funded by federal and some of laws, especially drugs need be reform.

Too late, the health care bill will soon help speed things up and break the budget, and money spent on health care will make money spent on those wars look like chump change.

False.

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

Wirelessly posted

Didn't the Great Wall of China bankrupted the Ming Dynasty and several others?

 

[kokonut]

False.

You're right. The budget is already broke. We don't have the money to do this on a national scale with socialized health care (we already saw what socialism does to a country like Greece whose money ran out). It'll make the budget on protecting the border look like pennies by comparison.

 

[Foxrac]

You're right. The budget is already broke. We don't have the money to do this on a national scale with socialized health care (we already saw what socialism does to a country like Greece whose money ran out). It'll make the budget on protecting the border look like pennies by comparison.

False, health care reform isn't socialism because of involvement with private health insurance with regulation.

It doesn't make me so happy because I want government-run health care, however new health care reform is better than nothing with filled in emergency room that caused hospital to losing the money. It isn't totally solution, even conservative backed health care reform is no solution too.

We are getting OFF-TOPIC and did you read all of Jiro's post because he WANTS us to discuss about legal issue with AZ immigrant bill, not about health care. :topic:

Take this off-topic to other thread or PM me so don't be scare to PM me, I won't bite you.

 

[Jiro]

Yeah.....that's not racial profiling.:roll:

Employer: I think you would be an asset to this company
Applicant: So I got the job?
Employer: Hold your horses now, you are extremely tan. Gotta make sure you are here legally

Applicant: I gave you three references,DL,SS number
Employer: Paperwork can be faked and your references sounded.....ahem "tan" when I spoke to them on the phone

Applicant:I am legal
Employer: I believe ya....but to keep from paying a hefty fine I am going to have to check that number with the IRS. But you have my word...in four months if you prove to be legal you got the job. Well unless we hire a white person before then.

No lawsuit there.....lol

huh? racist? You should be doing it to every single potential anyway - regardless of skin color.

 

[Jiro]

Why can't the robotic bees wait in line instead???? They would never know. Maybe, just maybe the people in AZ could take priority over the jaywalking turtles. We just spent $800 billion on bullshit.......Maybe we could shift some of that to national security.

Everybody seems to have a distorted understanding of financial management. Every money is allocated and budgeted. You cannot just simply say - oh let's cut this and then move it to there.

For example - we had a huge ruckus at my university where our football team got a very nice budget while rest of the university got mediocre budget. Our football team had luxurious training facility and dorm. People were clamoring that the budget be diverted to university to fund modernizing our school.

Guess what? it doesn't work like that. The budget for football team was funded by donations. The money donated for that specific purpose cannot be used for anything else.

Same concept applies to above. You cannot just shift the funding for robotic bees (the fund went to NSF - National Science Foundation anyway) to national security.

beside... our Department of Defense base budget for 2010 is $533.8 billion. This excludes other expenditures and such... it is estimated to rise up to $1 trillion for this year. This is still not enough? mind you - NSF received $6.9 billion budget for 2009.

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

Wirelessly posted

Yeah.....that's not racial profiling.:roll:

Employer: I think you would be an asset to this company
Applicant: So I got the job?
Employer: Hold your horses now, you are extremely tan. Gotta make sure you are here legally

Applicant: I gave you three references,DL,SS number
Employer: Paperwork can be faked and your references sounded.....ahem "tan" when I spoke to them on the phone

Applicant:I am legal
Employer: I believe ya....but to keep from paying a hefty fine I am going to have to check that number with the IRS. But you have my word...in four months if you prove to be legal you got the job. Well unless we hire a white person before then.

No lawsuit there.....lol

huh? racist? You should be doing it to every single potential anyway - regardless of skin color.

Can always hold them on probitation (limited shifts) 'til their background checks out.

Works for us.