Law Allowing Guns in Restaurants Takes Effect Wednesday

actually yes there is. We're required to take course and training. CCW is a serious responsibility. Like I said - you can EASILY get screwed because of picky laws. Again - any articles to support your argument?

Don't think obtaining CCW is as easy as obtaining driver license. It doesn't work like that and thanks God for that. I'm much more concerned about teen/distracted drivers than CCW holders at bar or McDonald.

Taking a course and training may be helpful, but it does not, in any way, mean automatically that the individual will take what is taught in that course and apply it to situations on a consistent basis. It offers information only. It does not determine the ability nor the willingness to use that information for benefit.
 
Taking a course and training may be helpful, but it does not, in any way, mean automatically that the individual will take what is taught in that course and apply it to situations on a consistent basis. It offers information only. It does not determine the ability nor the willingness to use that information for benefit.

thanks God it's not on consistent basis! To most of CCW holders - we encounter it only once or twice in our life. Judging from news stories.... they did pretty good job after all! Unlike police officers who deal with armed incidents on daily basis.........

So any stories?
 
I'm not promoting a ban. I am questioning the logic of allowing guns into an establishment that is generally crowded with people, many of whom will be drinking alcohol.

perfectly understandable and a very reasonable concern. Like I said - majority of them lock it in their vehicle's glove compartment. Majority of them do not carry it. Majority of them do not engage in brawl. Majority of them are smart enough to avoid the conflict at all cost. There are far far more stories about CCW saving lives than CCW killing people (out of violence).

It is illegal to brandish or threaten with your weapon. It is illegal to even HINT that you have a gun. It is illegal to consume alcohol if you are armed - exactly same as drinking and driving. It is illegal illegal illegal.

The government's not that stupid. Neither are CCW holders. CCW Law is as rigid as PAS law :)

So any stories?
 
For those who are supporter of CCW law, don't get excited... not all state laws are the same. AZ's law is really a idiotic one! And many AZ CCW are getting cold shoulders sorry folks!

Read the sidebar: Gun toters get cold shoulder | www.azstarnet.com ®

as well as this one being idiotic too! Concealed guns in locked cars are OK at AZ public colleges beginning today | www.azstarnet.com ®

idiotic? hmmm strange. Not gonna comment on Vermont's gun law? No permit, no license, nothing. It's free for all! (you know what I mean)
 
thanks God it's not on consistent basis! To most of CCW holders - we encounter it only once or twice in our life. Judging from news stories.... they did pretty good job after all! Unlike police officers who deal with armed incidents on daily basis.........

So any stories?

We are talking about responsibility, not the number of times a CCW carrier has used their gun.

I haven't made any statements that require the support of stories.:shrug: It is a well known fact that accidents with firearms do occur. Those accidents can occur in a public place. It is also a well known fact that alcohol lowers inhibitions, restricts judgement, and increases anger. Those are 3 qualities that could be extremely dangerous when one has a gun in their pocket.
 
perfectly understandable and a very reasonable concern. Like I said - majority of them lock it in their vehicle's glove compartment. Majority of them do not carry it. Majority of them do not engage in brawl. Majority of them are smart enough to avoid the conflict at all cost. There are far far more stories about CCW saving lives than CCW killing people (out of violence).

It is illegal to brandish or threaten with your weapon. It is illegal to even HINT that you have a gun. It is illegal to consume alcohol if you are armed - exactly same as drinking and driving. It is illegal illegal illegal.

The government's not that stupid. Neither are CCW holders. CCW Law is as rigid as PAS law :)

So any stories?

Locked in a glove compartment is not that reasurring. Cars get broken into and guns get stolen...meaning another firearm on the streets illegally and in the hands of someone who doesn't have a CCW.

Again, I haven't stated anything that needs to be illustrated with a story.
 
We are talking about responsibility, not the number of times a CCW carrier has used their gun.

I haven't made any statements that require the support of stories.:shrug: It is a well known fact that accidents with firearms do occur. Those accidents can occur in a public place. It is also a well known fact that alcohol lowers inhibitions, restricts judgement, and increases anger. Those are 3 qualities that could be extremely dangerous when one has a gun in their pocket.

1. again - it is illegal to consume alcohol while armed IN ALL STATES. Ban or no ban on firearms in bars does not make much difference because there are people who ILLEGALLY brought the firearms into bars in the past. The only difference is.... the innocents died because they were defenseless.
2. like I said - your concern is understandable IN THEORY but IN REALITY, there are barely any news that support your concern
3. explanation for a very low number of incidents? because CCW holders are THAT responsible. far far far far more responsible than non-CCW holders.
 
Locked in a glove compartment is not that reasurring. Cars get broken into and guns get stolen...meaning another firearm on the streets illegally and in the hands of someone who doesn't have a CCW.

Again, I haven't stated anything that needs to be illustrated with a story.

I have illustrated dozens of stories that strengthen my stance. Robbery at Burger King and Wal-Mart parking lot. Shooting at bar by a crazed man. Armed carjacking. Armed break-in and attempted rape. and I have dozens more stories that CCW SAVES LIVES.

You have none that validate your legitimate concern such as..... CCW holder shooting in bars or crowded restaurant or McDonald? Do you have any stories that CCW KILLS LIVES?
 
We can bring our guns on campus in South Carolina also. However, I don't because it requires leaving the gun locked in the car in the parking lot. I never leave my guns in a car or purse. If I'm carrying, I want it on my person. A car is too easily broken in to or stolen, and a purse is too easily snatched.

The truth is, I almost never carry my concealed weapon because there are so many restrictions. I take them to the ranges for practice, and that's about the only place I can take them.

A person with a conceal carry permit is actually more restricted than a person without one. We're expected to know the laws, so we have no excuse if we do something wrong.
 
1. again - it is illegal to consume alcohol while armed IN ALL STATES. Ban or no ban on firearms in bars does not make much difference because there are people who ILLEGALLY brought the firearms into bars in the past. The only difference is.... the innocents died because they were defenseless.
2. like I said - your concern is understandable IN THEORY but IN REALITY, there are barely any news that support your concern
3. explanation for a very low number of incidents? because CCW holders are THAT responsible. far far far far more responsible than non-CCW holders.

You might want to tell that to the hunters who, btw, have their guns on them legally, that consume cases of beer while they are out on their little adventures.

There is plenty of news that supports my concern. There is news of shootings every day in the news. Adding more guns to the equation certainly isn't going to reduce the number of firearms deaths. Evidently, you haven't checked the stats lately. The United States is number one in death by firearms. And they aren't all accomplished by people who possess guns illegally. We had an incident just last week in the outskirts of my town. Man's daughter in law was in the drive getting something from her car after dark. Man mistook her for a burglar and shot her in the head, killing her. He had legal ownership of the gun, it was registered, he had no criminal history, nor any history of mental illness. He had not been drinking. He was a responsible citizen. Still, he killed his daughter in law by accident.
 
You might want to tell that to the hunters who, btw, have their guns on them legally, that consume cases of beer while they are out on their little adventures.

There is plenty of news that supports my concern. There is news of shootings every day in the news. Adding more guns to the equation certainly isn't going to reduce the number of firearms deaths. Evidently, you haven't checked the stats lately. The United States is number one in death by firearms. And they aren't all accomplished by people who possess guns illegally. We had an incident just last week in the outskirts of my town. Man's daughter in law was in the drive getting something from her car after dark. Man mistook her for a burglar and shot her in the head, killing her. He had legal ownership of the gun, it was registered, he had no criminal history, nor any history of mental illness. He had not been drinking. He was a responsible citizen. Still, he killed his daughter in law by accident.

hunters and CCW are not the same thing.
home defense and CCW are not the same thing.
CCW permit is not required for hunting or home defense. Completely different and separate PERMIT from firearm license.

I restate - this subject is about CCW permit holders in public place. Not home defense, not hunting, not open carry. It's CONCEALED-CARRY-WEAPON PERMIT where you walk around in public area (mall, park, etc) with HIDDEN gun on you. The incidents you have stated are NOT RELATED to CCW.
 
hunters and CCW are not the same thing.
home defense and CCW are not the same thing.

I restate - this subject is about CCW permit holders in public place. Not home defense, not hunting, not open carry. It's CONCEALED-CARRY-WEAPON PERMIT where you walk around in public area (mall, park, etc) with HIDDEN gun on you.

You said it was illegal in all states for someone to be in possession of a gun and consume alcohol. I gave you an example of when it happens on a regular basis.

People who take guns into bars illegally certainly don't do so with it in full view. It is always concealed. Concealed, or out in the open, it is still a gun in an environment where guns become even more dangerous than they would be in another environment.

Thugs walk around all the time with guns hidden on them.:cool2:
 
hunters and CCW are not the same thing.
home defense and CCW are not the same thing.
CCW permit is not required for hunting or home defense. Completely different and separate PERMIT from firearm license.

I restate - this subject is about CCW permit holders in public place. Not home defense, not hunting, not open carry. It's CONCEALED-CARRY-WEAPON PERMIT where you walk around in public area (mall, park, etc) with HIDDEN gun on you. The incidents you have stated are NOT RELATED to CCW.
Correct on all points.
 
You said it was illegal in all states for someone to be in possession of a gun and consume alcohol. I gave you an example of when it happens on a regular basis.

People who take guns into bars illegally certainly don't do so with it in full view. It is always concealed. Concealed, or out in the open, it is still a gun in an environment where guns become even more dangerous than they would be in another environment.
yes. that's why they get criminally charged and it's a very serious charge! They will say bye bye to firearms and they will have their firearm licenses revoked permanently... unlike drivers with DUI who are given several chances. :nono: Drunk hunters in forest? yes I've heard of it several times. It's shameless and they do get caught by park rangers or get reported by other hunters who pass by.

With guns - you have only ONE CHANCE, NO EXCEPTION. and I support that stance. If your firearm license is revoked, you are required to surrender your firearms to your local police department within a specific time frame. Failure to do so will result in further criminal charge and arrest.

Thugs walk around all the time with guns hidden on them.:cool2:
exactly! and the thugs don't even have CCW permit and they don't follow the laws! so what do you propose what can we law-abiding citizens do to protect ourselves from these thugs? *hint hint - see my post #64 :cool2:
 
yes. that's why they get criminally charged and it's a very serious charge! They will say bye bye to firearms and they will have their firearm licenses revoked permanently... unlike drivers with DUI who are given several chances. :nono: Drunk hunters in forest? yes I've heard of it several times. It's shameless and they do get caught by park rangers or get reported by other hunters who pass by.

With guns - you have only ONE CHANCE, NO EXCEPTION. and I support that stance. If your firearm license is revoked, you are required to surrender your firearms to your local police department within a specific time frame. Failure to do so will result in further criminal charge and arrest.


exactly! and the thugs don't even have CCW permit and they don't follow the laws! so what do you propose what can we law-abiding citizens do to protect ourselves from these thugs? *hint hint - see my post #64 :cool2:

See there; I didn't need to post any stories. You have illustrated my point for me. :ty: Having a gun concealed does not automatically translate to greater safety or responsibility.
 
See there; I didn't need to post any stories. You have illustrated my point for me. :ty: Having a gun concealed does not automatically translate to greater safety or responsibility.

Sorry but I don't follow. Resorting to your classic argument style - obfuscation? :)

I've already proved that having CCW translates to a greater responsibility than non-CCW holders and I've already proved that CCW saves lives. You haven't been able to convince us otherwise since all of your examples & arguments are NON-RELATED to CCW.
 
What I don't get is that concealed gun owners already do walk around in public with them. The law does nothing to change it, except allow them into nightclubs. But here's the kicker, you get frisked or patted down before you're allowed to enter most nightclubs.

So... if the person get patted down, and got a licence to carry firearms, then that person will end up getting an armband or something to designate not to serve alcohol because it's illegal to serve alcohol to a known carrier. So... any joint that is serving alcohol to a concealed weapon owner will end up facing legal actions if there is an incident.

They're allowed to carry their weapons anywhere, so what's the big deal? The only difference is that they cleared up the grey area of being frisked.
 
Interesting thread. I don't understand the assumption that CCW folk are more responsible than those without the permits. I have had guns pointed at me, and I didn't ask if they were legal. I have had a person threaten me by growling and showing his piece, and he had a CCW permit. Is that responsible? When I walk among a crowd, a certain percentage would carry concealed handguns, and whether they are legal or not does not matter to me because of the human element. Handguns among people just make me nervous.
 
Interesting thread. I don't understand the assumption that CCW folk are more responsible than those without the permits.
because of stringent requirement and laws involved in CCW process. It's generally rigorous in all states. In some states, CCW permit are relatively easy to obtain but if it's that "too easy", that CCW permit will most likely not be recognized and honored in other state. My permits are recognized by 33 states. Again - it varies among states... so complex that most CCW holders choose NOT to carry it.

I have had guns pointed at me, and I didn't ask if they were legal.
Chance is - they probably don't have CCW permit but then.... we don't know since you never asked.

I have had a person threaten me by growling and showing his piece, and he had a CCW permit. Is that responsible?
It is ILLEGAL and you MUST IMMEDIATELY report it to police. He will be charged with aggravated assault with weapon and probably more. a CCW holder doing this is treated more harshly than a thug with illegal firearm.

Notice this - I've never said ALL (as in 100%) CCW holders are law-abiding type but like cops, there are a tiny percentage of those who are irresponsible and bad.

curious - where did he do this to you?

When I walk among a crowd, a certain percentage would carry concealed handguns, and whether they are legal or not does not matter to me because of the human element. Handguns among people just make me nervous.
yes. that is true. but then.... I'm much more concerned about idiot drivers than people carrying guns. I'm more likely to get killed by an idiot driver than a thug or an idiot gun owner. Human elements on anything makes me nervous too. Subway or bus driven by sleepy/distracted driver. Surgery performed by drunk surgeon. Class taught by pedophile. Arrested performed by aggressive and abusive officers. so on...
 
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