Ladies: would you vote for Palin?

[~SG~]

Mod's Note:

Religion discussion posts have been removed.

Let not bring any more Religion discussions back in here.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Where ? Show me, please ? I want to see it if, it says " trophy games ".

Excuse me for my typo. I should say trophy hunter... which is correction word.

Did you know what trophy hunter is about? which mean is they enjoy to hunt the animals for the games, not for meat.

Plenty of links here....

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Interesting...


http://www.alaskawolfkill.com/Palin_Letter.html

 

[Jiro]

Yes, I know what some of you are saying but it still is no excuse... Look at wild animals in Africa... wild animals in Germany... and everywhere, not just Alaska.

Wild animals in Africa? In case you didn't know.... handful of species in Africa, South America, and Asia are on endangered list due to illegal poaching and aggressive deforestration. They're rapidly degrading to the brink of extinction. Too many species to list. If I remember correctly, we lose about 50,000+ species per year (plants, insects, animals, reptiles, etc).

No matter what, cat is an animal as wolf... Oh yes, there're WILD cats as well... Wolves CAN be pet if you adopt and raise them with love. We have many wild cats in forest... and prefer to live in forest than house cats... I see them very often...

huh? no matter how much love you can give to wild animal.... they will ALWAYS still be wild animal and they will never be like domesticated dogs. They are more aggressive and have wildlife behaviors. You watch too much Animal Planet and Disney Walt movies. It's not that the wild cats "prefer." It's why they're called wild cats. They belong to forest, not home.

My cat killed birds but birds still exists.

My cat is in my house, not outside as a wild cat... It's not just prevent from more kitten is reason why I have all my cats to fix especially prevent them from their crazy HEAT for sex desire..

ok... so..... one cat? What about 10000000 cats? I'm sure there will be less birds.

Please don't confuse yourself with wild animals as pets. This is why people get hurt. Remember Roy Siegfried? That poor bastard.... I can list you handful of cases where people treat wild animals like pet but they ended up getting mauled/killed. They're a fool for not respecting the nature.

Yes, I respect that they hunt for the FOODS and WARM, not trophy, games, etc... It's me. I am against bullfighting, cockfighting, dogfighting, foxhunting, sealhunting, circus - animal to dance.... Again, it's me.

It's not only Alaska but every where in many countries... like Africa, etc.

no.... no..... When the hunters are contracted for animal culling... what do you propose what should we do about dead bodies? We can either leave it there for other animals to eat it or we can eat it or we can take a few bodies with us for trophy. What's wrong with that? It's not like we woke up one morning... and decide to kill some for a pleasure. We need to have a hunting license and permission from government. The purpose of hunting season is to control the population. Like I said - in nature.... nothing is wasted.

 

[Cheri]

You watch too much Animal Planet and Disney Walt movies.

by the way on everything else you said above.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Wild animals in Africa? In case you didn't know.... handful of species in Africa, South America, and Asia are on endangered list due to illegal poaching and aggressive deforestration. They're rapidly degrading to the brink of extinction. Too many species to list. If I remember correctly, we lose about 50,000+ species per year (plants, insects, animals, reptiles, etc).


huh? no matter how much love you can give to wild animal.... they will ALWAYS still be wild animal and they will never be like domesticated dogs. They are more aggressive and have wildlife behaviors. You watch too much Animal Planet and Disney Walt movies. It's not that the wild cats "prefer." It's why they're called wild cats. They belong to forest, not home.


ok... so..... one cat? What about 10000000 cats? I'm sure there will be less birds.

Please don't confuse yourself with wild animals as pets. This is why people get hurt. Remember Roy Siegfried? That poor bastard.... I can list you handful of cases where people treat wild animals like pet but they ended up getting mauled/killed. They're a fool for not respecting the nature.


no.... no..... When the hunters are contracted for animal culling... what do you propose what should we do about dead bodies? We can either leave it there for other animals to eat it or we can eat it or we can take a few bodies with us for trophy. What's wrong with that? It's not like we woke up one morning... and decide to kill some for a pleasure. We need to have a hunting license and permission from government. The purpose of hunting season is to control the population. Like I said - in nature.... nothing is wasted.

AllDeaf.com - View Single Post - Ladies: would you vote for Palin?

And, it make no difference... there´re dangerous dogs as pet dogs like bull pits, rotteiewer, etc... :roll:

I know what I am saying because I experienced in Africa.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

[

Got it. Whatever falsehoods you post, I'm not allowed to question or challenge. I guess that effectively ends all debate.

Question or challenge..?

At first you questioned me... after got the links from me... and insult me as a liar, defamataroy, etc... Is it question or challenge as what you call?

Unless I'm just sick in the head.

Wish you get well.

 

[Jiro]

In Africa, they control to make sure there're no illegal hunters around but not shoot them for pleasure (trophy, games, etc.) or control their overpopulation but the foods.

easier said than done. We're doing same thing in America too. We make sure there are no illegal hunting and make sure eco-system is balanced. When it comes to animal culling - it does not matter what they do with the dead animals. It can be used for food or trophies. They were killed for one thing - population control. Please get the "pleasure hunting" out of your head. It's funny that you conveniently choose to ignore Maria's link that hunting contributes to only 10% of the problem.

Why must we control everything? Look an example about Native Americans…they are for nature and valued all creatures.

The fact is wild animals coexisted for thousands years without any human interference... Neither disappeared.

ok but there are 8 billion people in the world right now, not a few hundred millions like in the past. And Native Americans do not have skyscrapers, massive metro-areas, etc. but they do have one thing - casinos

Would you like to see your child get mauled by mountain lion in your backyard? That's what's happening in California. We must control the nature and animal population because of increased HUMAN ACTIVITY. If you have a problem with that.... why don't we propose human culling? Oh wait... it's called death penalty (ok cheap joke)

oh btw - yes the species have disappeared in the nature due to over-predation and environmental change. Where are the dinosaurs? I'm certainly sure it wasn't caused by humans nor cavemen

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Unfortunately, you didn't read the link on page 6 I provided. That link Aerial Wolf Predator Control in Alaska, Alaska Department of Fish and Game Videos is already provided in that page. Please, go back and re-read it. Okay ?

I will copy and paste about controllin' population to prevent overpopulation from that link :

Wolves and bears are very effective and efficient predators on caribou, moose, deer and other wildlife. In most of Alaska, humans also rely on the same species for food. In Alaska's Interior, predators kill more than 80 percent of the moose and caribou that die during an average year, while humans kill less than 10 percent. In most of the state, predation holds prey populations at levels far below what could be supported by the habitat in the area. Predation is an important part of the ecosystem, and all ADF&G wolf management programs, including control programs, are designed to sustain wolf populations in the future.

The Alaska Board of Game approves wildlife regulations through a public participation process. When the Board determines that people need more moose and/or caribou in a particular area, and restrictions on hunting aren't enough to allow prey populations to increase, predator control programs may be needed. Wolf hunting and trapping rarely reduces wolf numbers enough to increase prey numbers or harvests.

Currently, five wolf control programs are underway that comprises about 9.4% of Alaska's land area. The programs use a closely controlled permit system allowing aerial or same day airborne methods to remove wolves in designated areas. In these areas, wolf numbers will be temporarily reduced, but wolves will not be permanently eliminated from any area. Successful programs allow humans to take more moose, and healthy populations of wolves to continue to thrive in Alaska.


And, please REMEMBER that this link I just provided is from the Government. You can't call it a feeble excuse or BS.

for show me... I read it yesterday but I find none what I am looking for is how many wild animal population before I can count % and divided but I can´t find that´s why I asked you for show me where... that´s what you want to show me... As what the link written "predators kill more than 80 percent of the moose and caribou that die during an average year"

80% of many mooses and caribou????? It doesn´t tell anything...

how many predators together????

I never said that your link is BS or feeble excuse... I said that the word as "overpopulation" is a feeble excuse.


It written in 3 links about Alaska wild animals...

150,000 mooses

moose statistics

Over million caribous

Alaska Wildlife: Moose, bear, caribou, wolves

7,000 to 11,000 wolves

Alaska Wolves Background - Defenders of Wildlife

Okay for now... I divided million caribous into 500,000 and 150,000 mooses into 75,000...

500,000 caribou divided by 7,000 wolves to 71.43 caribous per wolf.
75,000 divided by 7,000 wolves into 10.71 mooses per wolf.

It couldn't be that a wolf eat 71 caribous or 10 moose a day?

Normally, 3 or more wolves eat one caribou or moose a day. After that, they can survive without eat for days to weeks and then hunt for the food only if they are hungry.

AllDeaf.com - View Single Post - Ladies: would you vote for Palin?

This links over wild animal population belongs Alaska, also part of Government as well.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

easier said than done. We're doing same thing in America too. We make sure there are no illegal hunting and make sure eco-system is balanced. When it comes to animal culling - it does not matter what they do with the dead animals. It can be used for food or trophies. They were killed for one thing - population control. Please get the "pleasure hunting" out of your head. It's funny that you conveniently choose to ignore Maria's link that hunting contributes to only 10% of the problem.

10% of how many??????????
80% of how many????????

Unfortunlately, Maria´s link over population issues doesn´t tell enough than I expect... that´s link, I found today is an exactly what I am looking for before I can count out how many % or division.

ok but there are 8 billion people in the world right now, not a few hundred millions like in the past. And Native Americans do not have skyscrapers, massive metro-areas, etc. but they do have one thing - casinos

Would you like to see your child get mauled by mountain lion in your backyard? That's what's happening in California. We must control the nature and animal population because of increased HUMAN ACTIVITY. If you have a problem with that.... why don't we propose human culling? Oh wait... it's called death penalty (ok cheap joke)

oh btw - yes the species have disappeared in the nature due to over-predation and environmental change. Where are the dinosaurs? I'm certainly sure it wasn't caused by humans nor cavemen

Your argument make no sense and :topic:

 

[Jiro]

for show me... I read it yesterday but I find none what I am looking for is how many wild animal population before I can count % and divided but I can´t find that´s why I asked you for show me where... that´s what you want to show me... As what the link written "predators kill more than 80 percent of the moose and caribou that die during an average year"

80% of many mooses and caribou????? It doesn´t tell anything...

how many predators together????

I never said that your link is BS or feeble excuse... I said that the word as "overpopulation" is a feeble excuse.


It written in 3 links about Alaska wild animals...

150,000 mooses

moose statistics

Over million caribous

Alaska Wildlife: Moose, bear, caribou, wolves

7,000 to 11,000 wolves

Alaska Wolves Background - Defenders of Wildlife

Okay for now... I divided million caribous into 500,000 and 150,000 mooses into 75,000...

500,000 caribou divided by 7,000 wolves to 71.43 caribous per wolf.
75,000 divided by 7,000 wolves into 10.71 mooses per wolf.

It couldn't be that a wolf eat 71 caribous or 10 moose a day?

Normally, 3 or more wolves eat one caribou or moose a day. After that, they can survive without eat for days to weeks and then hunt for the food only if they are hungry.

AllDeaf.com - View Single Post - Ladies: would you vote for Palin?

This links over wild animal population belongs Alaska, also part of Government as well.

wonderful math you did there. but I'm sad to let you know that it is a known old fact that the animal counting is largely inaccurate. There are a few ways to make estimation of animal population. Calculate # of wolves you see in a given day per certain area... then multiple it by x based on large area. It is not a true representation of the population.

There is NO WAY to make a nearly-close approximate calculation. For example - when the scientists do a fly-by over Africa... they see a huge flock of elephants migrating together. It looks like 50 elephants. One can assume that the population of elephants are fine and assume that there are some other flocks like this somewhere. but then it's possible that that this flock is the last flock of elephant. Who knows?

Beside - why are you sad? We lose some species. Some new species are born to replace that. It's Earth. Life is constantly changing and evolving.... with or without humans. Try to keep the picture of a cute baby wolf out of your head and stay objective with me.

btw - those statistics from the links you provided are not quite trustworthy and reliable. The calculation is most likely erroneous and over/under-exaggerated. It's better if you can use statistic from government's wildlife control or a well-known organization like... say National Geographic. They have more stringent method of calculations. Non-profits organization do not.

 

[Maria]

AllDeaf.com - View Single Post - Ladies: would you vote for Palin?

And, it make no difference... there´re dangerous dogs as pet dogs like bull pits, rotteiewer, etc... :roll:

I know what I am saying because I experienced in Africa.

So, are you sayin' that dangerous dogs as pet dogs like bull pits, rottewer, etc. can kill and eat mooses, rabbits, elks, etc., etc. just like wolves ??

May I ask you a question : Why do you ignore my links when you asked me for it ? Did you not read them when the link is from the Government ?

 

[Jiro]

Wolf Management in Alaska with an Historic Perspective Presentation to the Alaska Board of Game

March 2002
by
Wayne L. Regelin, Director
Division of Wildlife Conservation
Alaska Department of Fish and Game

Key points of consensus were:
1. The wolf population in Alaska is abundant and secure.
2. Wolves in Alaska are highly valued by people for many purposes
3. Wolves are capable of limiting the abundance or productivity of prey.
4. No single management regime can be applied across the state to accommodate all legitimate human values.
5. Some form of zonal management system offers the best chance to address conflicting values.

The team did not reach consensus on two critical issues:
1. Whether same-day-airborne hunting of wolves by the public should be allowed.
2. The circumstances under which wolf control by department personnel would be acceptable and how control should be implemented.

Based in part on the NAS report, Governor Knowles established three basic principles that must be met before wolf control could proceed. Any control program:
1. Must be based on sound science.
2. Must be cost effective.
3. Must be broadly acceptable to the public.

In my opinion, some general conclusions that can be drawn from this history are:
1. The department will never again conduct widespread and continuous wolf control to increase ungulate populations. The monetary costs are too high and the public does not want their wildlife to be managed in that manner.
2. Wolf control by department personnel may be possible in small areas to help restore moose or caribou populations. In order to gain public acceptance, it will be necessary to have citizen participation in a planning process, guided by reliable scientific information.
3. Public acceptance is more easily gained if non-lethal methods of wolf population reduction are used, but this practice is probably not feasible in most places in Alaska.
4. A statewide planning effort, as was done in 1990, is unlikely to be productive. Such a plan can only provide general guidelines for wolf control. We must address each area individually with a planning team that includes local residents.
5. In most places in Alaska, local residents and other hunters must reduce predator populations on their own, through legal means of hunting bears and hunting and trapping wolves. The board and department will need to consider seasons, bag limits and methods needed to reach to this goal, as part of an overall wildlife management strategy.
6. The intensive management statutes are difficult to use and time consuming. Their emphasis on predator control is contradicted by public opinion, as represented through successful ballot initiatives.
7. Wolf management is complex, because sociological considerations are more influential than biological information. The majority of the American public and a sizeable proportion of the Alaskan public do not want the department to undertake wolf control.
8. The public supports department and board actions that recognize and provide for a diversity of wildlife values and uses. One way the board has demonstrated this balanced view has been to provide viewing opportunities by protecting wolves. The department will continue to support providing for appropriate viewing opportunities.
9. The public has an important and legitimate role in managing public resources. We must continue to discuss predator and prey management objectives with a broad-based public.
10. In many areas, bears are an important predator on moose calves. Due to a variety of biological and sociological factors, this complicates predator-prey management.

In summary, great efforts have been made since 1990 to develop a lasting wolf management policy for Alaska. The department and the board have tried to develop a policy that recognizes the importance of the wolf to Alaska, recognizes the widely divergent values people have about wolves, and allows wolf populations to be regulated when necessary to maintain the ability of people to harvest moose and caribou. To date, all such efforts have either failed or been inconclusive, and the issue is as controversial as ever.

 

[Reba]

Question or challenge..?

At first you questioned me... after got the links from me... and insult me as a liar, defamataroy, etc... Is it question or challenge as what you call?

Wish you get well.

I will.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.* I shall now refrain from any further attempt at logical debate with you, so I should soon be sane again.


*Albert Einstein

 

[Barbaro]

.............ok but there are 8 billion people in the world right now, not a few hundred millions like in the past. And Native Americans do not have skyscrapers, massive metro-areas, etc. but they do have one thing - casinos

Would you like to see your child get mauled by mountain lion in your backyard? That's what's happening in California. We must control the nature and animal population because of increased HUMAN ACTIVITY. If you have a problem with that.... why don't we propose human culling? Oh wait... it's called death penalty (ok cheap joke)...........

Off Topic, As San Diego native, There is much more than just casinos. They even built 57-store Viejas Outlet Center such as Old Navy and GAP on Viejas Reservation. There is even a big golf course on Barona Reservation. Really. If you want to see giant hotels, go to Temecula and Valley Center in California. Be prepared for traffic. lol.. Many celebrities go there for shows. Neighbors outside of the reservations have been ranting and opposing against Las Vegas style casinos and resorts due to heavy traffic, smog, gambling etc. We have plenty of billboards of Kenny Roger holding poker cards as an official spokesman for Barona casinos and resorts. LOL. I have been to the reservation in Washington State, and they have big parking garages. My Native American professor who teaches American Indian Politics and Native American Law courses admitted that she wasn't too happy about gambling and casinos, but it brings financial to the reservations. Billion dollars.. *whistings*

We do see plenty of mountain lions and possums in Southern CA. I used to date this guy who had a doctor who did surgery on this female patient who was mauled by a mountain lion. This patient was out riding a mountain bike with her friend on the mountain.

 

[Tousi]

I will.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.* I shall now refrain from any further attempt at logical debate with you, so I should soon be sane again.


*Albert Einstein

At long last, Reba! I was at the precipice myself a couple days ago as I was attempting to sort through the mess but gave up, thinking I'd just merely leave a powerful invective but when that time came, I thought the better of it because I knew that surely there'd be more of the same drivel coming down the pike.

 

[dead money]

Originally Posted by Jiro
You watch too much Animal Planet and Disney Walt movies.

LMAO

no kidding. Probaly watched "Born Free" about a thousand times.

 

[Jiro]

 

[dead money]

ELLLLLLLLLSSSSSSSSAAAAAA!

*cries*

 

[Liebling:-)))]

wonderful math you did there. but I'm sad to let you know that it is a known old fact that the animal counting is largely inaccurate. There are a few ways to make estimation of animal population. Calculate # of wolves you see in a given day per certain area... then multiple it by x based on large area. It is not a true representation of the population.

There is NO WAY to make a nearly-close approximate calculation. For example - when the scientists do a fly-by over Africa... they see a huge flock of elephants migrating together. It looks like 50 elephants. One can assume that the population of elephants are fine and assume that there are some other flocks like this somewhere. but then it's possible that that this flock is the last flock of elephant. Who knows?

Beside - why are you sad? We lose some species. Some new species are born to replace that. It's Earth. Life is constantly changing and evolving.... with or without humans. Try to keep the picture of a cute baby wolf out of your head and stay objective with me.

btw - those statistics from the links you provided are not quite trustworthy and reliable. The calculation is most likely erroneous and over/under-exaggerated. It's better if you can use statistic from government's wildlife control or a well-known organization like... say National Geographic. They have more stringent method of calculations. Non-profits organization do not.

"animal counting is largely inaccurate" ? How do you know that it´s "largely" inaccurate? Can you please show me where you assume that it´s "largely" inaccurate?

We all use positive common sense to see how large population to other animals instead of count how many animals...

Of course we all know that population statistic is an estimation, it´s not just animal but human as well. We should work out -10% or +10% to estimation. That´s why I estimate half of wild animal population per a wolf.

It has nothing do with my emotion... I know how to control my emotion when I debate over cubs/pups issues. It´s VERY wrong to kill pups/cubs. No wonder why the people negative Palin about this.

Yes I prefer to use Defender of Wildlife´s link over Government´s link because their knowledge skill over animal is more than Government... Defender of wildlife is also belong government's wildlife, too. I have read Maria´s link over population but it doesn´t tell very much than Defender of Wildlife... Defender of Wildlifer know more than Government.