Ladies: would you vote for Palin?

[Liebling:-)))]

So, are you sayin' that dangerous dogs as pet dogs like bull pits, rottewer, etc. can kill and eat mooses, rabbits, elks, etc., etc. just like wolves ??

Huh? Please re-read Jiro´s post.

Jiro´s post
Please don't confuse yourself with wild animals as pets. This is why people get hurt. Remember Roy Siegfried? That poor bastard.... I can list you handful of cases where people treat wild animals like pet but they ended up getting mauled/killed. They're a fool for not respecting the nature.

I remind him that the pets are also as well... they attack people including children.

It makes no difference.

May I ask you a question : Why do you ignore my links when you asked me for it ? Did you not read them when the link is from the Government ?

Why have I repeat this to you? I SAVE your links in my favorite list... that´s links, you gave me is very interesting one over Alaska culture. I don´t read everything in once... but time to time...

About population issues is mainly important to me to read... until you showed me this one what I read at 2 days ago... but it doesn´t tell very much enough than Defender of Wildlife´s websites... Defender of Wildlife is also belong part of Government.

 

[Jiro]

Defender of Wildlife is also belong part of Government.

huh???????????????????????????????????????? Are you SERIOUS?

from its site -

Founded in 1947, Defenders of Wildlife is one of the country’s leaders in science-based, results-oriented wildlife conservation. We stand out in our commitment to saving imperiled wildlife and championing the Endangered Species Act, the landmark law that protects them.

Defenders of Wildlife is a national, nonprofit membership organization dedicated to the protection of all native animals and plants in their natural communities.

Defenders of Wildlife IS NOT A GOVERNMENT AGENCY NOR PART OF GOVERNMENT AGENCY!

 

[Jiro]

I remind him that the pets are also as well... they attack people including children.

It makes no difference.

you continue to baffle me with your odd logic. There is a HHHHHUUUUUGGGEEE difference between wild animals and domesticated animals. I'm not going to bother elaborating more. This simply shows an incompetence and lack of understanding & rational logic on your part so why should I bother?

 

[Jiro]

How do you know that it´s "largely" inaccurate? Can you please show me where you assume that it´s "largely" inaccurate?

Life After Death - some species thought to be extinct are being rediscovered
Bringing extinct species back from the dead
'Extinct' Frog Found Alive and Well in Australia
Rare bird species are likely even rarer than thought, according to new study
Gorilla discovery doubles population estimates

need some more proof? I've already established patterns of huge inaccuracy in animal counting.

We all use positive common sense to see how large population to other animals instead of count how many animals...

Of course we all know that population statistic is an estimation, it´s not just animal but human as well. We should work out -10% or +10% to estimation. That´s why I estimate half of wild animal population per a wolf.

makes me wonder if you really understand what you're saying.... I wonder if you're just saying it just because it sounds good

Yes I prefer to use Defender of Wildlife´s link over Government´s link because their knowledge skill over animal is more than Government... Defender of wildlife is also belong government's wildlife, too. I have read Maria´s link over population but it doesn´t tell very much than Defender of Wildlife... Defender of Wildlifer know more than Government.

oh god..... see my other post. What you just said is like saying "I believe everything including "facts and statistics" from PETA than government site. :roll:

 

[Liebling:-)))]

huh???????????????????????????????????????? Are you SERIOUS?

from its site -


Defenders of Wildlife IS NOT A GOVERNMENT AGENCY NOR PART OF GOVERNMENT AGENCY!

for convince me that Defenders of Wildlife is not part of Government Agency. It proves itself that Government ignore Defenders of Wildlife and have lack of knowledge.

To me, Defenders of Wildlife have more knowledge skill than Government's link, I read. It explains a lot why over 70% Alaskans voted against it. It look like that they have more knowledge and have good common sense.

The problem is your ignorant and lack of common sense.

 

[Jiro]

for convince me that Defenders of Wildlife is not part of Government Agency.

Convince? I had to CONVINCE you that they are not part of government agency??? You should be able to know by yourself!!!!! I wonder if I should continue to debate with you any further since you just demonstrated your incompetency to discern the differences and inability to understand the issue at hands.

It proves itself that Government ignore Defenders of Wildlife and have lack of knowledge.

To me, Defenders of Wildlife have more knowledge skill than Government's link, I read. It explains a lot why over 70% Alaskans voted against it. It look like that they have more knowledge and have good common sense.

The problem is your ignorant and lack of common sense.

ok.... i think we all know who actually lacked a common sense in here. :roll:

 

[Liebling:-)))]

you continue to baffle me with your odd logic. There is a HHHHHUUUUUGGGEEE difference between wild animals and domesticated animals. I'm not going to bother elaborating more. This simply shows an incompetence and lack of understanding & rational logic on your part so why should I bother?

Of course I know the difference between wild animals and domesticated animals. I showed you that the pets also did the same thing when you tried to remind me the example about Roy Siegfried's issues. Wild animals and domesticated animals hurt or tame to the owners. You think that wild animals is just only who attack the owners... no... the pets also as well... Did you remember that French lady was being mauled by her pet "family friendly" golden retriever and got facial transplant? I see no difference on them...

I see mainly problem is your ignorant and lack of common sense...

You don't want to see why over 70% Alaskans including hunters voted against it and also Defender of Wildlife's websites as well... You don't look on both side... I have is from Maria's links to compare with Defender of Wildlife's websites and learn to know about wild animals... All what you do is on government's side.

You don't bother to read one of my links to response your post yesterday...

Wolf Friends

I have seen many wild animals are tame when you adopt and raise them loving.

I was in Africa and have been and pat big tame lion and also stand close to wild dogs as well. They doesn't bother us because we don't bother them but just respect them and leave them alone.

I prefer Wildlife's knowledge skill because they know animals more than Government.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Life After Death - some species thought to be extinct are being rediscovered
Bringing extinct species back from the dead
'Extinct' Frog Found Alive and Well in Australia
Rare bird species are likely even rarer than thought, according to new study
Gorilla discovery doubles population estimates

need some more proof? I've already established patterns of huge inaccuracy in animal counting.


makes me wonder if you really understand what you're saying.... I wonder if you're just saying it just because it sounds good


oh god..... see my other post. What you just said is like saying "I believe everything including "facts and statistics" from PETA than government site. :roll:

Your links is not relate to correct the estimate of Alaska wild animals population then I can work out with % and division.

I ASKED you to show me where "largely" inaccurate what you claim about the link, I provided over wild animal population in Alaska.

I have a very good and health sense of common.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Convince? I had to CONVINCE you that they are not part of government agency??? You should be able to know by yourself!!!!! I wonder if I should continue to debate with you any further since you just demonstrated your incompetency to discern the differences and inability to understand the issue at hands.


ok.... i think we all know who actually lacked a common sense in here. :roll:

Normally Wildlife including Defenders of Wildlife is recongization as a part of Government but I am surprised that Wildlife is not belong part of Government in Alaska because many wildlife organzation are being recongization as a part of Government in MANY countries....

You sometimes don't know what you are saying...

 

[Jiro]

oh dear god.... I say the road ends here for me. I shall moonwalk my way out...

now I've got more pressing issues to deal with...

 

[Liebling:-)))]

But that was before Sarah Palin took Murkowski's job at the end of 2006. She went one step, or paw, further. Palin didn't think Alaskans should be allowed to chase wolves from aircraft and shoot them -- they should be encouraged to do so. Palin's administration put a bounty on wolves' heads, or to be more precise, on their mitts.

In early 2007, Palin's administration approved an initiative to pay a $150 bounty to hunters who killed a wolf from an airplane in certain areas, hacked off the left foreleg, and brought in the appendage. Ruling that the Palin administration didn't have the authority to offer payments, a state judge quickly put a halt to them but not to the shooting of wolves from aircraft.

The controversy over Palin's promotion of predator control goes beyond animal rights activists recoiling at the thought of picking off wolves from airplanes. A raft of scientists has argued that Palin has provided little evidence that the current program of systematically killing wolves, estimated at a population of 7,000 to 11,000, will result in more moose for hunters. State estimates of moose populations have come under scrutiny. Some wildlife biologists say predator control advocates don't even understand what wolves eat.

Liebling: - Yes, I am surprised that the predator control have lack of knowledge on wolves's way. All what they talk about "overpopulation", that's all.

They really have no idea what and how wolves's way like this...

http://www.steeldog.com/WolfFriends.htm

In 2007, she approved $400,000 to educate the public about the ecological success of shooting wolves and bears from the air. Some of the money went to create a pamphlet distributed in local newspapers, three weeks before the public was to vote on an initiative that would have curtailed aerial killing of wolves by private citizens. "The timing of the state's propaganda on wolf control was terrible," wrote the Anchorage Daily News on its editorial page.

Gordon Haber is a wildlife scientist who has studied wolves in Alaska for 43 years. "On wildlife-related issues, whether it is polar bears or predator controls, she has shown no inclination to be objective," he says of Palin. "I cannot find credible scientific data to support their arguments," he adds about the state's rationale for gunning down wolves. "In most cases, there is evidence to the contrary."

Liebling: - Yes, I cannot find the logical to support Palin's argument over overpopulation issues.

Last year, 172 scientists signed a letter to Palin, expressing concern about the lack of science behind the state's wolf-killing operation. According to the scientists, state officials set population objectives for moose and caribou based on "unattainable, unsustainable historically high populations." As a result, the "inadequately designed predator control programs" threatened the long-term health of both the ungulate and wolf populations. The scientists concluded with a plea to Palin to consider the conservation of wolves and bears "on an equal basis with the goal of producing more ungulates for hunters."

Liebling: - I posted the link of 172 scientist's letter to Palin here yesterday. Don't you read them?

Predator control in Alaska dates back to the 1920s and 1930s. Even then, wildlife biologists insisted that wolves were important to the area's natural ecology and not responsible for inordinate deaths of sheep, caribou or moose. Yet the scientists fought a losing battle against ranchers, hunters and government officials, who backed the extermination of tens of thousands of wolves. Aerial hunting began in earnest in the 1940s and continued through the 1960s after Alaska had earned statehood.

Scientists insist that the Palin administration is systematically killing wolves with an inadequate understanding of the relationship between the carnivore and hoofed animals. The state responds that predators kill over 80 percent of the moose and caribou that die each year, while hunters and trappers kill less than 10 percent.

Liebling:- Yes that's what I said the same thing after read Maria's link... It make no sense... Just 80%??? 80% of how many estimate ???????????? and 10% of how many estimate ??????????

Haber says the state's numbers are wildly inflated. His decades of wolf research have shown that wolves are, in fact, mostly scavengers. "Sixty to 70 percent of the moose they eat are scavenged, not killed," he says. He adds that the state's wolf population estimates, based on secondhand observations and extrapolations, are also high.

Palin offered the $150 bounty for wolf paws in 2007 after efforts to kill wolves from airplanes that season were, in her view, coming up short. State officials had hoped that 382 to 664 wolves would be killed during that predator-control season. State officials were disappointed when only 115 wolves were killed from the air.

Palin thought the $150 cash bounties would do the trick. Haber has another explanation for the dry spell. "I can tell you from my own research that the reason they didn't get many wolves in certain years, particularly last winter, is because they have scraped those areas clean," he says.

Last year, Rep. George Miller, D-Calif., introduced legislation designed to curtail predator-control programs, except as a last resort. "It's time to ground Alaska's illegal and inhumane air assault on wolves," Miller said. Palin quickly fired off a curt letter in response, applauding the state's programs as "widely recognized for their excellence and effectiveness." She pointed out that her state has "managed its wildlife so that we still maintain abundant populations of all of our indigenous predators almost fifty years after statehood."

Says Jans, co-sponsor of the losing initiative to outlaw aerial wolf hunting: "This is a reflection of a somebody who doesn't have any use for science."

Liebling: - What person Palin is... *shake my head*

Sarah Palin, predator control, shooting wolves | Salon


This links over population issues support my POV. I want to open my mind to find out the reason why Palin is for shoot wolves and bears to boost the populations of moose and caribou but some of your argument doesn't meet my POV and also Palin's arguement as well.

I see nothing about Palin's arguement over wolves and bears control but her disgusting inhumanity and brutal.

Defender of Wildlife to convince me what it is about... because the numbers of population is mainly important for me to know...

I accept my knowledge that the wolves are not overpopulated in Alaska and also no scientific evidence that wolves kill more moose and caribou etc than they need to survive.

Fact is: Shoot wild animals from the plane is inhumanity.

Fact is: Shoot bear cubs and wolves pups are very WRONG.

Fact is: Shoot bears and wolves for the pleasure (trophy hunters, games, ....) is inhumanity.

Fact is: I have no problem to support the hunters for shoot the wild animals for the foods and warm, not trophy hunters for pleasure.

Maria, for your links over Alaska's culture. I am still reading them...

 

[Cheri]

oh dear god.... I say the road ends here for me. I shall moonwalk my way out...

now I've got more pressing issues to deal with...

LMAO!!!

 

[Maria]

for convince me that Defenders of Wildlife is not part of Government Agency. It proves itself that Government ignore Defenders of Wildlife and have lack of knowledge.

So, that means it obviously to me that YOUR Government is LACK of knowledge. It also obviously to me that the Defenders of Wildlife in your Germany have more knowledge skill than YOUR Government's link ?

To me, Defenders of Wildlife have more knowledge skill than Government's link, I read. It explains a lot why over 70% Alaskans voted against it. It look like that they have more knowledge and have good common sense.

The problem is your ignorant and lack of common sense.

You still avoid me from answerin' to my question in my previous post. You need to answer STRAIGHT to MY question when question asked. I don't want you to add Jiro's or someone else's post to avoid answerin' to my question, okay ? Please, don't. Just straight answer to my question, please ?? Now, I am askin' you the same question AGAIN : So, are you sayin' that dangerous dogs as pet dogs like bull pits, rottewer, etc. can kill and eat mooses, rabbits, elks, etc., etc. just like wolves ??

I will say this again. Please, pay attention to my question with your answer only. Don't add someone else's post to my question, because I DON'T ask them this question. I ask YOU this question. Ok ?

 

[Maria]

LMAO!!!

I second that, too! He is funny, isn't he? LOL!! Ohh, I love his sense of humor!

 

[Maria]

Normally Wildlife including Defenders of Wildlife is recongization as a part of Government but I am surprised that Wildlife is not belong part of Government in Alaska because many wildlife organzation are being recongization as a part of Government in MANY countries....

You sometimes don't know what you are saying...

Oh, yes he KNOWS what he is sayin'.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

So, that means it obviously to me that YOUR Government is LACK of knowledge. It also obviously to me that the Defenders of Wildlife in your Germany have more knowledge skill than YOUR Government's link ?

Huh? *scratch my head*

We are here to talk about Palin and Alaska, not Germany.

I would suggest you to re-read the posts carefully before you made an assumption. No one say one word about Germany but Alaska here. I talk about support Alaska's Defender Wildlife because they make a lot sense over animal population and wolves in Alaska than Government's link...

You still avoid me from answerin' to my question in my previous post. You need to answer STRAIGHT to MY question when question asked. I don't want you to add Jiro's or someone else's post to avoid answerin' to my question, okay ? Please, don't. Just straight answer to my question, please ?? Now, I am askin' you the same question AGAIN :

So, are you sayin' that dangerous dogs as pet dogs like bull pits, rottewer, etc. can kill and eat mooses, rabbits, elks, etc., etc. just like wolves ??

The issues is about remind Jiro that wild animals are not only one but some pets are also dangerous as well. (I already said that I know the difference between wild animals and domesticated animals).

I never said one word about dangerous dogs as pet dogs can eat mooses, etc... I really have no idea why you assume it. Could you please show me where I say that dangerous dogs can eat moose, etc like wolves... I do not see anything in my response post to Jiro.

I will say this again. Please, pay attention to my question with your answer only. Don't add someone else's post to my question, because I DON'T ask them this question. I ask YOU this question. Ok ?

Your question make no sense because I never say one word about dangerous dogs (pet) can eat mooses, etc but the fact is you misquoted my response post toward Jiro.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Oh, yes he KNOWS what he is sayin'.

No, he made :topic: posts because I want to consider Palin and animal population in Alaska, not use links from other countries to confuse the posts. It makes no sense....

 

[Maria]

Huh? *scratch my head*

We are here to talk about Palin and Alaska, not Germany.

I would suggest you to re-read the posts carefully before you made an assumption.

I don't make an assumption. I ASK a QUESTION. A question is NOT an assumption.

No one say one word about Germany but Alaska here. I talk about support Alaska's Defender Wildlife because they make a lot sense over animal population and wolves's ways...

For your information, Defender Wildlife is NOT a part of Government. Defenders of Wildlife is one of the country’s leaders in science-based, results-oriented wildlife conservation. In 1947, Defenders of Wildlife is a national, nonprofit membership organization dedicated to the protection of all native animals and plants in their natural communities.


The issues is about remind Jiro that wild animals are not only one but some pets are also dangerous as well. (I already said that I know the difference between wild animals and domesticated animals).

I never said one word about dangerous dogs as pet dogs can eat mooses, etc... I really have no idea why you assume it. Could you please show me where I say that dangerous dogs can eat moose, etc like wolves... I do not see anything in my response post to Jiro.


Your question make no sense because I never say one word about dangerous dogs (pet) can eat mooses, etc but the fact is you misquoted my response post toward Jiro.

Yes, my question makes SENSE. I want YOUR opinion, NOT Jiro's. It's why I want to ask you. See this link below on page 11. This is where you posted. You wrote it. I asked you a question: So, are you sayin' that dangerous dogs as pet dogs like bull pits, rottewer, etc. can kill and eat mooses, rabbits, elks, etc., etc. just like wolves ?? Yes or No ? What's your answer, please ?

AllDeaf.com - View Single Post - Ladies: would you vote for Palin?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Yes, my question makes SENSE. I want YOUR opinion, NOT Jiro's. It's why I want to ask you. See this link below on page 11. This is where you posted. You wrote it. I asked you a question: So, are you sayin' that dangerous dogs as pet dogs like bull pits, rottewer, etc. can kill and eat mooses, rabbits, elks, etc., etc. just like wolves ?? Yes or No ? What's your answer, please ?

AllDeaf.com - View Single Post - Ladies: would you vote for Palin?

REPEAT:

NO.

Because I never say.

 

[Jiro]

I'm back!

REPEAT:

NO.

Because I never say.

really? Odd.... But your previous post said -

AllDeaf.com - View Single Post - Ladies: would you vote for Palin?

And, it make no difference... there´re dangerous dogs as pet dogs like bull pits, rotteiewer, etc... :roll:

I know what I am saying because I experienced in Africa.

Do you understand what you just said? When you say... "as"... that means you're saying pet dogs ARE as dangerous as wild animals because they DO kill and eat moose. What you just implied is that pet dogs ARE SAME as wild wolves. They are equally dangerous. They are equally wild.

I don't know about you but I can certainly tell you that there will be FAR MORE biting/mauling cases by wolves than pet dogs if baby wolves are allowed to be sold at pet store. Even though wolf and dog are from same ancestor... it's still not a same thing. Wolf is not a dog. Dog is not a wolf. Same thing - Human is not a monkey. Monkey is not a human.