Its Not The Parents Fault....

Boult said:
Ok that's clearer...

what about one of twins son named Peter III from Sound and Fury? :dunno: he's one of example that didn't need interpreter or relay.. just one of many examples out there. I guess you forgot that one...
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Oh yes! Thank you for remind me about Peter III.

Sure, but I accept that Peter III could be one of fewer who can do anything. I will find out more about CI children of hearing parents. Example about HA users. I beleive that I did posted somewhere that my "HOH" friend who wear HA all her life since she was 6 months old and can speak like HOH and can phone... She interpreted for us sometimes. She is one of few people who can do like what Peter III did. I beleive it's not just CI or HA but it's parents who develop their children's education. Without parents, children would of learn nothing, no matter either they wear HA nor CI. I can see that Mari and Chris are one of them who work hard and spent their time on their son's development which some parents doesn't... Look at Cloggy - he could be the same as Chris and Mari.

That's why I like to find out about the children of hearing parents and experience with them... Of course I will think of Peter III when I look at children of hearing parents.

I read about Chris and Mari's statement in this link carefully. http://www.handsandvoices.org/articles/misc/V8-4_soundfury.htm

I add bold to this.

For Chris and Mari, "Sound and Fury" taught them an important lesson. "As parents," says Mari, "the most important lesson of the movie for us is that everyone has the right to make their own decision, and that decision should be respected. The most important thing to realize," she continues, "is that even though it may appear your child is 'normal' [hearing] they will never be. The implant is not a cure for deafness. Your child will always be deaf. You will always be the advocate for him/her. Getting an implant for your child is the easy part. The hard work comes after, which involves speech therapy, home speech, language lessons, getting your child mapped accurately three to four times a year. But the pay off is well worth it...We are seeing the benefits of Peter's hard work now... he is flourishing beautifully." Peter (III) is now 7 years old and in first grade. He attends a school near his home and is the only deaf child in his class. "Peter is an energetic, vibrant, extremely bright seven year old boy who is doing very well," says Mari. "He is able to carry conversations with anyone. He has many friends and is able to hear on the telephone as well. He is in first grade and is reading well above his grade level."


Liebling's Edit: Mari and Chris said that they accept that Peter III is deaf but why they send him to hearing school, not deaf school?

"He embraces his deafness as his identity as he accepts the fact that he has big, brown doe eyes," says Mari.

In October, 2003, Peter (III) approached his parents and asked for an implant in his other ear. He now has bilateral implants and enjoys hearing out of both ears. "He tells us often that he is glad that he is able to 'hear out of both of his ears'," says Mari. "Peter does have some difficulty in very noisy situations-like a birthday party at a bowling alley. But he's an awesome lip reader and this skill helps him understand what is going on."

In many ways, the entire family has come full circle. Mari is teaching Peter (III) American Sign Language and sharing it at his school. Peter uses ASL to communicate with other deaf family members, especially his deaf grandfather, with whom he is very close. He uses ASL when at the pool or at night when he takes his implant off.
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Liebling's Edit: I'm happy for Peter III because he's happy what he have and what he like.
 
Liebling:-))) said:
Oh yes! Thank you for remind me about Peter III.

Sure, but I accept that Peter III could be one of fewer who can do anything. I will find out more about CI children of hearing parents. Example about HA users. I beleive that I did posted somewhere that my "HOH" friend who wear HA all her life since she was 6 months old and can speak like HOH and can phone... She interpreted for us sometimes. She is one of few people who can do like what Peter III did. I beleive it's not just CI or HA but it's parents who develop their children's education. Without parents, children would of learn nothing, no matter either they wear HA nor CI. I can see that Mari and Chris are one of them who work hard and spent their time on their son's development which some parents doesn't... Look at Cloggy - he could be the same as Chris and Mari.

That's why I like to find out about the children of hearing parents and experience with them... Of course I will think of Peter III when I look at children of hearing parents.

I read about Chris and Mari's statement in this link carefully. http://www.handsandvoices.org/articles/misc/V8-4_soundfury.htm

I add bold to this.



Liebling's Edit: I'm happy for Peter III because he's happy what he have and what he like.
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Your HOH friend may have better hearing loss than mine, who knows. and she got HA at 6 while I got at 18months. I wonder if she stayed in same town all her life and pretty much in same area for schools.
While I jump from preschool to deaf school to oral school to hearing school in many different states and they all have different educational philosophy (I liked the oral deaf education but didn't like the dorm setting) so supposed my family remained in Tucson, Az all throughout my life to now. For sure, I will be in straight mainstreaming from 3rd to 12th then I may have opted to attend Univ. of Az. instead of NTID or Gallaudet who knows! If that happens I may act like HOH but away from family distorts developmental skills. (ie: my parent working with me on speech and etc full time daily than abroad. That's what I had first few years before being shipped in sardine can to different school in different states. I argued that with my dad! he can't help it. ) So everybody is different. That's why I think it is important to factor in everything to determine if a certain path is good one. your friend is lucky she was able to do this because of her educational and developmental background then her parent must have raised her good.

As for them accepting Peter III as Deaf but he is on par with hearing so he does not need deaf school and that the hearing school is near them than send farther. Family bonds is good right? :)

Yeah, I don't know if you have seen the video called "Twins" a study on 3 sets of twins. the twins from sound and fury is in that video.
http://www.alldeaf.com/showpost.php?p=547871&postcount=51

I am not sure if you can sign up for account with CMP (http://www.captionedmedia.org/) so you can watch video online since you are not in america though...
 
I get so tired of hearing that parents who implant their child are ashamed of them or are just trying to make them "normal" or hearing like them. While that may be true in isolated cases, I honestly don't believe that is the norm. To those of you that don't have children---you can't possibly understand what it's like to be in that position. So while you are entitled to your opinions, just don't expect them to be taken seriously. At least not by me.

To those of you that do have children, you know the special love you have for your child. Would you ever be ashamed of them for ANY reason? Probably not. Would you want your child to have the best chances to achive in life? The answer is most likely YES! Would you want some outsiders telling you what decisions you can make in the interest of your child? Probably not. Is it anybodys right to decide what is in the best interest of MY child? Absolutly not. For sane responsible parents, its THEIR choice to do what they feel is in the best interest of their child. I am sure there are parents out there that are not responsible and make bad choices and maybe they are ashamed of their children. But they are NOT the majority as some have suggested. It seems that in all discussions regarding CI, those that oppose it for a child always seem to bring up the negative attitudes of the minority of parents that do make bad choices. I have yet to see one parent that has stated they implanted their child because they were ashamed of them or because they want them to be "Normal". What I do see is parents saying they want what is best for their child in terms of achievement. I would be interested if anyone knows of any studies that compare the rate of achivement between a child that can hear (by any means) to a child that cant.
 
Cheri said:
That's what I thought too, I thought they allows at beginning of 12 months old before 4 years old. I can't remember which thread, that someone said that a child been implanted at 5 months old. :dunno:
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I met someone at the school I take my 5 month old to and she implanted her son at 8 months. That is the earliest I've ever heard. I would not consider implanting until at least 1 year old.
 
rockdrummer said:
I get so tired of hearing that parents who implant their child are ashamed of them or are just trying to make them "normal" or hearing like them. While that may be true in isolated cases, I honestly don't believe that is the norm. To those of you that don't have children---you can't possibly understand what it's like to be in that position. So while you are entitled to your opinions, just don't expect them to be taken seriously. At least not by me.

To those of you that do have children, you know the special love you have for your child. Would you ever be ashamed of them for ANY reason? Probably not. Would you want your child to have the best chances to achive in life? The answer is most likely YES! Would you want some outsiders telling you what decisions you can make in the interest of your child? Probably not. Is it anybodys right to decide what is in the best interest of MY child? Absolutly not. For sane responsible parents, its THEIR choice to do what they feel is in the best interest of their child. I am sure there are parents out there that are not responsible and make bad choices and maybe they are ashamed of their children. But they are NOT the majority as some have suggested. It seems that in all discussions regarding CI, those that oppose it for a child always seem to bring up the negative attitudes of the minority of parents that do make bad choices. I have yet to see one parent that has stated they implanted their child because they were ashamed of them or because they want them to be "Normal". What I do see is parents saying they want what is best for their child in terms of achievement. I would be interested if anyone knows of any studies that compare the rate of achivement between a child that can hear (by any means) to a child that cant.
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:gpost: Amen...
 
Cheri said:
I tried to tend to see both sides of issue, but when some of us don't agree with implanting children at the young age, we are consider to be close minders, That's not the case. We happened to care about those children's right to have a voice to be heard, to have an opportunity to have that choice. When I tried to say that often, an argument becomes a never-ending circle, between hearing parents with implant children, CIers and Deaf people because of opposite beliefs. I do not believe that deaf children need to become "hearing-like" or normalized, just because the family are all hearing. They're capable to successfully at speech with hearing aids, I've seen some hearing parent rushes so quickly having their five months old child implanted with a CI. That's so young the same time, How do you really know hearing aids doesn't help? Could a 5 months old can tell you that she/he cannot hear with hearing aids? It's not my role to tell parents what to do, But, we owe those children our patience.

I do know for matter of fact when every hearing parents first learned that their child is deaf, Their very first reaction would be shocked. Why? The answer is very easy, No one in family had been deaf. One of my pet peeve about hearing parents seeing CI as the magic cure for deafness, When I said "cure" It doesn't mean 100 percent hearing. In another word it means better than hearing aids when hearing aids are wore only for a very short period of time. I hate to see decisions being made by hearing family wishing the child to be "normal." If you want best for your child, fine, but if you're doing this just to make your child to be hearing like yourself, then that is wrong.

Sorry for taking long, I needed the time to think what to say. :giggle: I'm sure everyone is right ahead of me.
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i thought u cant implant 5 months old baby.. but only over a year old ???
 
I do believe possible suitable for
Hard of Hearing can be works w/CI perfectally hear as well almost 90% but not 10% alikely not recoglized the sounds or simlair diffculities understanding.. May be not perfect tho...

Espically profound Deaf and want to try hear.. possible 90% hard to understand recoglized the sound or any sounds related the voice..
10% picked up the pieces recoglized sounds coming from... likey out of loud the sort of swearing possible clear crystal.. who knows..
Im not sure knowledge the ci techoglies..
sort of.. I'm Deaf but not really whole thing sound perfect understand nope... Just only I would say about 20% or 30% understand coming from sound by HIGH PITCH that is it.. really killing me bad miragines..
I'm glad I'm not part of ci but otherwise I do respect anyone who have CI..

One thing, my main concern about the hearing parents who wanted have their child implanted which too young have implanted alikely baby's stage of age early.. I disagree.. Prefer wait til little bit younghood age group 5's ish! As long your opnion is different pov than mine.. That okay.. I understand your pov better than I do.. Not even care at all...

I'm very happy all of you guys are great feedback together no attacks.. I'm very foundage to you all everyone great job feedback than prevouis other thread really uglier ever I seen.. Honestly! (chuckles)

Way to go ^Angel^'s thread quite impressive remarks good title!
 
rockdrummer said:
....... I would be interested if anyone knows of any studies that compare the rate of achivement between a child that can hear (by any means) to a child that cant.
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We have noticed that for my daughter who's deaf (bi-lateral CI) there is a clear difference in the rate of achievement.
This because hearing children will get so much more / additional information just by listening to conversations and sounds. With the other two children being hearing, we definitely noticed the difference.

So, in this case it is not just about communication. It's about the ability of the child to interpret the world around itself, by itself.

Mind you, it also works the other way around. Our deaf child will have higher achievement in "reading" people - finding visual clues. Lipreading will become second nature.
 
Boult said:
Your HOH friend may have better hearing loss than mine, who knows. and she got HA at 6 while I got at 18months. I wonder if she stayed in same town all her life and pretty much in same area for schools.
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Yes, she and her "HOH" brother lived in same town and oral school all their life. They went the same school as my hubby. Almost all oral schools in Bavaria, Germany except few school who allows sign languages.

While I jump from preschool to deaf school to oral school to hearing school in many different states and they all have different educational philosophy (I liked the oral deaf education but didn't like the dorm setting) so supposed my family remained in Tucson, Az all throughout my life to now. For sure, I will be in straight mainstreaming from 3rd to 12th then I may have opted to attend Univ. of Az. instead of NTID or Gallaudet who knows! If that happens I may act like HOH but away from family distorts developmental skills. (ie: my parent working with me on speech and etc full time daily than abroad. That's what I had first few years before being shipped in sardine can to different school in different states. I argued that with my dad! he can't help it. ) So everybody is different. That's why I think it is important to factor in everything to determine if a certain path is good one.

your friend is lucky she was able to do this because of her educational and developmental background then her parent must have raised her good.
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Yes I understand where you come from and agree that everyone is different. Every parents develop their children´s skill in different way, no matter either they are deaf or hearing. Anyway my parents have no time for me but got my one year younger sister Sue to interpet for me because they knows she can sign which is easier for them... :roll: Yes I had a big fight with parents when I was a teenager. We reunioned after 10 years no contact in 1999. I forgave my Dad and move on.... He began to interest about CI issues and learn about me few years later AFTER I am married. Oh well.. :|

Yes, I´m agree that my friend and her brother are very lucky to have good and caring parents who develop their skills very well.


As for them accepting Peter III as Deaf but he is on par with hearing so he does not need deaf school and that the hearing school is near them than send farther. Family bonds is good right? :)

Yeah, I don't know if you have seen the video called "Twins" a study on 3 sets of twins. the twins from sound and fury is in that video.
http://www.alldeaf.com/showpost.php?p=547871&postcount=51

I am not sure if you can sign up for account with CMP (http://www.captionedmedia.org/) so you can watch video online since you are not in america though...
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Thank you for provide those links. I will look at them tomorrow and will let you know what I think of this.

Oh yeah Family bonds... but it´s mainly important to accept each other what they are. All what I hope for Peter III is happy that way he is and what he wants.
 
rockdrummer said:
I get so tired of hearing that parents who implant their child are ashamed of them or are just trying to make them "normal" or hearing like them. While that may be true in isolated cases, I honestly don't believe that is the norm. To those of you that don't have children---you can't possibly understand what it's like to be in that position. So while you are entitled to your opinions, just don't expect them to be taken seriously. At least not by me.

To those of you that do have children, you know the special love you have for your child. Would you ever be ashamed of them for ANY reason? Probably not. Would you want your child to have the best chances to achive in life? The answer is most likely YES! Would you want some outsiders telling you what decisions you can make in the interest of your child? Probably not. Is it anybodys right to decide what is in the best interest of MY child? Absolutly not. For sane responsible parents, its THEIR choice to do what they feel is in the best interest of their child. I am sure there are parents out there that are not responsible and make bad choices and maybe they are ashamed of their children. But they are NOT the majority as some have suggested. It seems that in all discussions regarding CI, those that oppose it for a child always seem to bring up the negative attitudes of the minority of parents that do make bad choices. I have yet to see one parent that has stated they implanted their child because they were ashamed of them or because they want them to be "Normal". What I do see is parents saying they want what is best for their child in terms of achievement. I would be interested if anyone knows of any studies that compare the rate of achivement between a child that can hear (by any means) to a child that cant.
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According to this news article about a study here http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2006-06/wuso-wci062906.php
it seems that parents frequently hesitate to have their children implanted and are interested in other options rather than rushing into the decision (although I'm sure a minority do).

I must admit if I was a parent I would find the idea of surgery on a baby difficult too and I don't see that my feelings would be difficult from other parents.

Maybe people need to consider that it's researchers, educational professionals and doctors who are more in favour of early implantation to a greater degree than parents?
 
Liebling:-))) said:
Respectfully disagree.

I have seen a lot of CI users including HOH around here still depend on interpreters for important appointments and also still use relay services, etc. as well. You think CI users can speak like hearing people... No, they would speak like HOH, not 100% hearing like normal hearing people.
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i understand that, i know a deaf child will never hear as well as a hearing person but depending on the approach you use and the age you start your child with therapy sessions makes a big difference. I know this from expierence with my own daughter. She was implanted at the age of 2 and has been in AV therapy for 3 years now and the progress is wonderful. Because it's a learning to listen approach it helps the child to listen as well as speak. She does great talking on the phone to my surprise without any adapters. So a lot of it is the approach you use as well as the age and not to mention the extensive therapy at home. I know she will never be 100% hearing but i'm doing all i can to help make things easier for her
 
R2D2 said:
.........
Maybe people need to consider that it's researchers, educational professionals and doctors who are more in favour of early implantation to a greater degree than parents?
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I feel that it's them that have the information. They know that early implantation of CI will benefit the toddler in further life. I have shown studies showing that, and it's mentioned in the article:
The researchers tested the spoken language skills of 76 children, all 3 and a half years old, who had cochlear implants and compared those results to the length of time each child had his or her implant. They found that with increased implant time, children's vocabulary was richer, their sentences longer and more complex and their use of irregular words more frequent. The researchers' work was reported in the June issue of Ear and Hearing.

Nicholas notes that many of the children who received cochlear implants at the youngest ages have nearly the same spoken language skills as children with normal hearing. The researchers' further studies -- not yet published -- suggest that by age 4 and a half, children who had cochlear implants very early often have normal speech and can potentially enter kindergarten with their hearing peers.
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And when the child will benefit more, so will the parent.
 
The CI success also depends on the parent work with their child at home--not just drop them to therapy and some CI mappings. An example from a parent who said that the CI itself is 10% of the work and the 90% is the parent work.

The positive thing about implanting children young is that they will get over the hardwork earlier because of their brain plasticity.
 
ClearSky said:
The CI success also depends on the parent work with their child at home--not just drop them to therapy and some CI mappings. An example from a parent who said that the CI itself is 10% of the work and the 90% is the parent work.

The positive thing about implanting children young is that they will get over the hardwork earlier because of their brain plasticity.
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You are 100% right Clearsky. I was actually the parent who stated that. The doctors and therapists also make you aware that it takes a lot of hard work and patience when working with your child.
 
ClearSky said:
I got the statement from a video from AB :) .
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LOL... sorry, i thought i thought you were referring to this sight because i made that exact statement here. :)
 
Yes, a lot of parents probably will make that statement from experience with their children :).
 
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