Its Not The Parents Fault....

[Cheri]

It came up in other topics and questions were asked to how this came to be.
It was ignored, and now it pops up again.....

:roll: Why do you have to make it so hard? It might have not been ignored, If you have noticed that there are so many pages by pages in almost all CI threads not everyone gotta remember word by word.

 

[Tousi]

Yeah, I know, Cloggy but it looks better this time around as I think most of us have come to a concensus that it's more like "retardation of the facial skin" at best.

 

[Cheri]

I thought a child had to be at LEAST a year old in order to be implanted? Are they really implanting as early as 5 months old?

That's what I thought too, I thought they allows at beginning of 12 months old before 4 years old. I can't remember which thread, that someone said that a child been implanted at 5 months old.

 

[Boult]

I tried to tend to see both sides of issue, but when some of us don't agree with implanting children at the young age, we are consider to be close minders, That's not the case. We happened to care about those children's right to have a voice to be heard, to have an opportunity to have that choice. When I tried to say that often, an argument becomes a never-ending circle, between hearing parents with implant children, CIers and Deaf people because of opposite beliefs.

umm, it is "close minded" cuz "close minders" is not word unless you meant a minders (a person who watch over shoulders making sure one is following the order) in close proximity. **ducks** (just teasing you) no comments to that part of paragraph.

I do not believe that deaf children need to become "hearing-like" or normalized, just because the family are all hearing. They're capable to successfully at speech with hearing aids, I've seen some hearing parent rushes so quickly having their five months old child implanted with a CI. That's so young the same time, How do you really know hearing aids doesn't help? Could a 5 months old can tell you that she/he cannot hear with hearing aids? It's not my role to tell parents what to do, But, we owe those children our patience.

not all parent base decision on that just because family are hearing. they factor in everything around the immediate family just like what cloggy from Norway has explained about his decision as to why in other thread. just like what Fernando from Spain described his on DN years ago. if you want to see that one let me know I'll find that for you.
Currently, there is law here in USA that there is a hearing screening test for infant that was just born. and they do have equipment to be able to get responses for any ages.

I do know for matter of fact when every hearing parents first learned that their child is deaf, Their very first reaction would be shocked. Why? The answer is very easy, No one in family had been deaf. One of my pet peeve about hearing parents seeing CI as the magic cure for deafness, When I said "cure" It doesn't mean 100 percent hearing. In another word it means better than hearing aids when hearing aids are wore only for a very short period of time. I hate to see decisions being made by hearing family wishing the child to be "normal." If you want best for your child, fine, but if you're doing this just to make your child to be hearing like yourself, then that is wrong.

Sorry for taking long, I needed the time to think what to say. I'm sure everyone is right ahead of me.

Not just because no one in family is deaf. chance are that their ancestor are deaf and didn't know. It is not just that but "don't know what to do" they end up in trying to find out what to do so they turn to school, doctors, etc..
It is not like it was 40 yrs ago, when it comes to today's situation. Because 40 yrs ago, they will just say early intervention, Or "deaf school" or "hearing aid and dunno about speech" such like that. in some extreme case, it could be like what your mother did.

So today's things has changed, I am hearing more and more are getting aware of deafness just because of loud noise they are generating..

So, I believe we should educate our daughters and sons that are hearing something about hearing loss so they don't end up like those mothers in extreme case. like to teach them to accept that hearing loss can become part of life. not denials. and educate them to be prepared as they become parent if they happens to have deaf childs.

Like for example, there's Deafness Research Foundation;
http://www.drf.org/

Good post cheri

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I thought the same as Cheri (accord her post #37)

I said part of my post at other thread.

I thought about hearing parents's posts here when I was in London for 9 days last month. I tested my Dad as hearing person. I questioned my Dad about CI issues and how he feeling after discover that I'm deaf etc. (I know my parents found out I'm deaf when I was 1 year old).

Dad said that he would of implant me STRAIGHT WAY with CI after found out I'm deaf. (CI tech. is not around in 1960 at that time). Of course I asked him why. He said that he like to whisper me. I was like eh?

Dad said that he & my mom were upset after learn that I'm deaf and need to find out about my future etc. The doctor insured them to not worry about my future because deafies can lead normal life like hearing but can't hear anything. Doctor advised them to not wear HA on me until I'm 5 years old.... (That's doctor's opinion). Doctor positived my parents about my deafness... Many years later my Dad heard about CI and questioned doctor cons and pros about CI issues. Doctor want to examine me but Dad told him that I'm married and live in Germany. Doctor told my Dad in his opinion that I'm too old to have CI - it's best to have CI on young children and talk positive all the time to my Dad about CI. I was like eh?

Anyway, I listen until he finish with his talk then I told my Dad that his description about doctor at my time and CI issues at present time sounds hypocrisy to me. Dad asked me why? I told him that every doctors insured the parents to not worry about deaf children's future etc... until new CI tech. comes.... the doctor said different and then positive CI issues.

My Dad & I have good debate without insult/bash etc. All what I want say is I thank Dad for wake me up.

 

[kayla123]

I tried to tend to see both sides of issue, but when some of us don't agree with implanting children at the young age, we are consider to be close minders, That's not the case. We happened to care about those children's right to have a voice to be heard, to have an opportunity to have that choice. When I tried to say that often, an argument becomes a never-ending circle, between hearing parents with implant children, CIers and Deaf people because of opposite beliefs. I do not believe that deaf children need to become "hearing-like" or normalized, just because the family are all hearing. They're capable to successfully at speech with hearing aids, I've seen some hearing parent rushes so quickly having their five months old child implanted with a CI. That's so young the same time, How do you really know hearing aids doesn't help? Could a 5 months old can tell you that she/he cannot hear with hearing aids? It's not my role to tell parents what to do, But, we owe those children our patience.

I do know for matter of fact when every hearing parents first learned that their child is deaf, Their very first reaction would be shocked. Why? The answer is very easy, No one in family had been deaf. One of my pet peeve about hearing parents seeing CI as the magic cure for deafness, When I said "cure" It doesn't mean 100 percent hearing. In another word it means better than hearing aids when hearing aids are wore only for a very short period of time. I hate to see decisions being made by hearing family wishing the child to be "normal." If you want best for your child, fine, but if you're doing this just to make your child to be hearing like yourself, then that is wrong.

Sorry for taking long, I needed the time to think what to say. I'm sure everyone is right ahead of me.

It's not about making your child "normal", it's about doing what you feel is best for your child. When a hearing couple first learns of their child being deaf of course they are initally going to be scared. When it's unexpected you go through all types of emotions. In my case it was all new to me. I'm not at all against sign, and it will be fine for us to sign to eachother but what about the rest of the family? She is very close with all of her cousins and with my friends kids and it would break my heart to see all the kids verbally communicating with eachother and her being left out. That would be very frustrating for her. I would'nt want to see her go through that and it's not about being selfish, if she feels hurt, then i feel that pain 10 times more and all parents should know what i mean by that. Everyones circumstances are different and everyone has their own reasons for doing what they feel is right for their child. Sometimes people just have to realize it's not about "fixing" your child, it's about doing you feel is right for them.

 

[kayla123]

That's what I thought too, I thought they allows at beginning of 12 months old before 4 years old. I can't remember which thread, that someone said that a child been implanted at 5 months old.

I believe they start implanting at 6 months now. Not before then though

 

[Cheri]

She is very close with all of her cousins and with my friends kids and it would break my heart to see all the kids verbally communicating with eachother and her being left out.

I understand that, But your child is deaf, Is it a problem for them to learn signs to communicate with her? That's what I do with my sisters and brother. My hearing sister knew signs like forever and still uses them, and even remembered them. My other sister and brother been taught signs by me, and still uses signs.

 

[Boult]

I thought the same as Cheri (accord her post #37)

I said part of my post at other thread.

I thought about hearing parents's posts here when I was in London for 9 days last month. I tested my Dad as hearing person. I questioned my Dad about CI issues and how he feeling after discover that I'm deaf etc. (I know my parents found out I'm deaf when I was 1 year old).

Dad said that he would of implant me STRAIGHT WAY with CI after found out I'm deaf. (CI tech. is not around in 1960 at that time). Of course I asked him why. He said that he like to whisper me. I was like eh?

Dad said that he & my mom were upset after learn that I'm deaf and need to find out about my future etc. The doctor insured them to not worry about my future because deafies can lead normal life like hearing but can't hear anything. Doctor advised them to not wear HA on me until I'm 5 years old.... (That's doctor's opinion). Doctor positived my parents about my deafness... Many years later my Dad heard about CI and questioned doctor cons and pros about CI issues. Doctor want to examine me but Dad told him that I'm married and live in Germany. Doctor told my Dad in his opinion that I'm too old to have CI - it's best to have CI on young children and talk positive all the time to my Dad about CI. I was like eh?

Anyway, I listen until he finish with his talk then I told my Dad that his description about doctor at my time and CI issues at present time sounds hypocrisy to me. Dad asked me why? I told him that every doctors insured the parents to not worry about deaf children's future etc... until new CI tech. comes.... the doctor said different and then positive CI issues.

My Dad & I have good debate without insult/bash etc. All what I want say is I thank Dad for wake me up.

Well, yeah things are different today than it was in the past. the medical field never stay the same, same thing for education of all kinds do change. What the doctor said in the past is now irrelevant since today's opinion are more pronounced. Here in USA, 40 years, I get aided right away at 18 months not 5 yrs old... obviously, here in US, they say the earlier the better so I get aided earlier.

so in case of CI, the earlier the better. because if past 5 yrs old, the window of opportunity close. so in your case, I guess you got your Ha at 5yrs? you may be delayed in some area since you haven't heard any sounds in first 5 yrs of life hmm?

 

[kayla123]

I understand that, But your child is deaf, Is it a problem for them to learn signs to communicate with her? That's what I do with my sisters and brother. My hearing sister knew signs like forever and still uses them, and even remembered them. My other sister and brother been taught signs by me, and still uses signs.

It would not be a problem at all if were her siblings because they would learn from us, but it's a little different when its friends and cousins. in all reality i can't go asking everyone to go take sign language classes.Anyways thats not the only reason, being able to communicate verbally is going to help her later on in life. Ive said this before that i know not all deaf people depend on others but i don't want her to be dependent on interpreters and relay services and such. I want her to be able vebally communicate her needs when she needs to. She will also have the ability to sign when she wants to.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Well, yeah things are different today than it was in the past. the medical field never stay the same, same thing for education of all kinds do change. What the doctor said in the past is now irrelevant since today's opinion are more pronounced.

Yes I agree to this but the doctor should take both sides on HA and CI instead of take one side on CI only.

Here in USA, 40 years, I get aided right away at 18 months not 5 yrs old... obviously, here in US, they say the earlier the better so I get aided earlier.

so in case of CI, the earlier the better. because if past 5 yrs old, the window of opportunity close. so in your case, I guess you got your Ha at 5yrs? you may be delayed in some area since you haven't heard any sounds in first 5 yrs of life hmm?

I'm afraid yes.

I experienced Germans HA users until I accept the fact that doctor's opinion for wear HA on me at age 5 is not right because they should wear HA on me straight way until I'm familiar with sounds instead of wait until I'm 5 years old. Many German HA users wear HA since they were babies because doctor advised their parents to wear HA on their children at age 6 months or straight way after found out their children are deaf. A lot of Germans speak like HOH. Some HA users can speak on the phone. I would say that deaf German people speak much better than British people.

Of course I didn't like HA but I were being forced to wear HA by school when I was 5 years old until I'm familiar with sounds and use it and wear HA for a long time until 1987. Public Health Insurance cover the cost of HA batteries, renew HA etc for years until CI issues comes... Pubic Health Insurance companies decided to quit to cover the cost of HA batteries, re-new HA etc to consider CI issues because they want us consider CI. I noticed that I can't acheive to pay batteries or re-new HA anymore so I give HA up. I didn't wear HA for almost 20 years now.

I find very sad that Public Health Insurance did not treat HA and CI users equal. They pay everything 100% on CI tech... no matter what to neglect HA because they beleive CI tech. is the best than HA. But Public Health Insurance cover HA issues only for old people who have hearing loss.

I guess it would be different story IF Public Health Insurance support HA and CI equal then the doctor would take cons and pros on both sides. I notice that a lot of doctors take one side on CI and make business with CI mostly than HA.

I would do the same as German parents who wear HA on their 6 months old babies because I withness many deaf Germans speak very good like HOH and can phone... That's why I think to have CI on babies/toddler is not necassary until they want to have CI then I'll be happy to support them.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

It would not be a problem at all if were her siblings because they would learn from us, but it's a little different when its friends and cousins. in all reality i can't go asking everyone to go take sign language classes.Anyways thats not the only reason, being able to communicate verbally is going to help her later on in life. Ive said this before that i know not all deaf people depend on others but i don't want her to be dependent on interpreters and relay services and such. I want her to be able vebally communicate her needs when she needs to. She will also have the ability to sign when she wants to.

Respectfully disagree.

I have seen a lot of CI users including HOH around here still depend on interpreters for important appointments and also still use relay services, etc. as well. You think CI users can speak like hearing people... No, they would speak like HOH, not 100% hearing like normal hearing people.

 

[Boult]

Respectfully disagree.

I have seen a lot of CI users including HOH around here still depend on interpreters for important appointments and also still use relay services, etc. as well. You think CI users can speak like hearing people... No, they would speak like HOH, not 100% hearing like normal hearing people.

Yeah but would those you saw are adult but not implanted at 1 yrs or so? so that's difference. those implanted at earlier age like 1 to 5 and can easily go on without help of interpreter or relay service.
I would agree with you if those were implanted at later age like me, yeah I use relay or interpreter but when I can overcome, I could might easily dispose of those service.

I know few ci in my ci group that finally get a relay call from deaf person.

 

[Opal]

Yes I agree to this but the doctor should take both sides on HA and CI instead of take one side on CI only.

No - why bother since we knows CI is much better than HA.

For example - DVD is better than VHS. Catch up up to standard technology is important, not looking back living in antiques!!

 

[Liebling:-)))]

No - why bother since we knows CI is much better than HA.

For example - DVD is better than VHS. Catch up up to standard technology is important, not looking back living in antiques!!

Respectfull Disagree!

There're also better technology on HA as well!

CI technology is not alway work on deaf people. A hearing parent who is member here stated in his posts somewhere here that CI is not work on his daughter. I'm not surprised to hear about this because I heard the same stories before. I know that there're alway have cons and pros on CI and HA. Everyone need to open their mind to see pros and cons on BOTH SIDES instead of ONE SIDE...

It is also same with DVD and VHS as well.

I can record any movies with subtitles from TV with VHS, not DVD. I can record any movies from TV with DVD but can't record subtitles. . Video tapes are everywhere in the store but no subtitles including... DVD have most subtitles including. Like what I said before that there're alway have cons and pros on any new or old technology.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Yeah but would those you saw are adult but not implanted at 1 yrs or so? so that's difference. those implanted at earlier age like 1 to 5 and can easily go on without help of interpreter or relay service.
I would agree with you if those were implanted at later age like me, yeah I use relay or interpreter but when I can overcome, I could might easily dispose of those service.

I know few ci in my ci group that finally get a relay call from deaf person.

Yes, that's right I saw is adults but they are being implanted as young children and young teenagers. Most of them born to deaf parents who support their children's choice, speak very good like HOH but I don't know either CI technology helps people who are being implanted as babies/toddlers to able to live without the help from interpreter/relay service because I didn't experience CI children of hearing parent's development. I have friends who support their children's wish with CI and contact with hearing parents of CI children. I will find out more about them as adult either they can live without the help from interpreter or not.

I know most babies/toddlers born to hearing parents who decide themselves for their babies/toddlers but I don't know what happened to them now because I haven't see them for a long time. I hope I will meet them and learn their experiences one day.

 

[Boult]

Respectfull Disagree!

There're also better technology on HA as well!

True, but you fail to realize that a person with certain loss like 120db loss may not benefit a superior HA technology.
Those with mild hearing loss (ie: 40 to 70db loss) may benefit from HA no question. some could go for middle-ear implant afterall. It all depends on the physique of cochlea and their ear system.

CI technology is not alway work on deaf people. A hearing parent who is member here stated in his posts somewhere here that CI is not work on his daughter. I'm not surprised to hear about this because I heard the same stories before. I know that there're alway have cons and pros on CI and HA. Everyone need to open their mind to see pros and cons on BOTH SIDES instead of ONE SIDE...

Yes, we have already said that CI are not for everyone. same thing for HA which may not for everyone too. But we knows that it has superior benefits over HA for those that CI may works for...
Would that member be Rockdrummer?

I think I can speak for us, CI users, that we already have open mind on this subject. The problem is not us. It is those anti-oral/ci folks who are not open-minded. *shrug*

It is also same with DVD and VHS as well.

I can record any movies with subtitles from TV with VHS, not DVD. I can record any movies from TV with DVD but can't record subtitles. . Video tapes are everywhere in the store but no subtitles including... DVD have most subtitles including. Like what I said before that there're alway have cons and pros on any new or old technology.

Not going to discuss on this.. although I can record from DVD with a DVD recorder. Well VHS is about to be phased out or sold in less numbers. Blu-ray Disc DVD and HD-DVD Disc are coming out which hold larger data than previous DVD. WE are moving forward not backward.
(remember BETA vs VHS and VHS won out so that is like HA vs CI )

but again, we don't need to debate the details of DVD but opal is just giving us example.

 

[Boult]

Yes, that's right I saw is adults but they are being implanted as young children and young teenagers. Most of them born to deaf parents who support their children's choice, speak very good like HOH but I don't know either CI technology helps people who are being implanted as babies/toddlers to able to live without the help from interpreter/relay service because I didn't experience CI children of hearing parent's development. I have friends who support their children's wish with CI and contact with hearing parents of CI children. I will find out more about them as adult either they can live without the help from interpreter or not.

Ok that's clearer...

I know most babies/toddlers born to hearing parents who decide themselves for their babies/toddlers but I don't know what happened to them now because I haven't see them for a long time. I hope I will meet them and learn their experiences one day.

what about one of twins son named Peter III from Sound and Fury? he's one of example that didn't need interpreter or relay.. just one of many examples out there. I guess you forgot that one...

 

[Boult]

Of course my last, bottom answer(in previous post) may be out of reach for you to learn from...

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Yes, we have already said that CI are not for everyone. same thing for HA which may not for everyone too. But we knows that it has superior benefits over HA for those that CI may works for...

Yes I know and agree to this.

Would that member be Rockdrummer?

Yes but it's not just him who experience for his daughter but other members as well who experience themselves as CI users.

I think I can speak for us, CI users, that we already have open mind on this subject. The problem is not us. It is those anti-oral/ci folks who are not open-minded. *shrug*

Oh yeah, I have seen it and do not involve in any threads where the people bash/insult each other. I'm pretty open mind when CI or HA issues comes. It would be great if we respect each other when we disagree each other because we know that we have different views on this issues. I do not against oral and CI issues but I'm only disagree to implant on babies/toddlers with CI, that's all. I see no problem if anyone learn to speak and use oral but also use sign language as well.

Not going to discuss on this..

Yes, that's right but I tried to positive her example.

although I can record from DVD with a DVD recorder.

Of course I can record from DVD with a DVD recorder but can't record subtitles from TV.

Well VHS is about to be phased out or sold in less numbers. Blu-ray Disc DVD and HD-DVD Disc are coming out which hold larger data than previous DVD. WE are moving forward not backward.
(remember BETA vs VHS and VHS won out so that is like HA vs CI )

but again, we don't need to debate the details of DVD but opal is just giving us example.

Of course we do not need to debate over DVD vs VHS here... Leave it out. I only doing to positive Opal's example who brought this subject in first place.