It's A Parents Decision

ashleysmommy said:
I know how frustrating it can be to see children that are deprived of learning and mistreated. I see it all the time. You sometimes wish you could shake some sense into the parent or guardian. Each parent has a different way of bringing up their children. Others may not agree with how or what they do but it seems right to them. There is always going to be a disagreement on how to best educate deaf children. They system is not much help so it is up to the parent to make sure the child gets what they feel he or she needs. I have been lucky to have so many people sent to me to help. As long as I stay active in Ashley's education and her progress with her other challenges she will be OK. I am learning with her. I knew little about deafness until I found out Ashley is deaf. I started making phone calls and doing research on-line. I have never been ashamed or kept her deafness from any one. I tell people that stop and try to get her attention that she can't hear them. The biggest response is awww i am so sorry. I say why? She is a perfectly happy baby and that is no reason to feel sorry for her. They look at me like wow. They say they don't know if they could handle it. It's like this Ashley didn't ask to be here. She didn't ask to have the challenges that she does. It is up to me to make sure she gets all the education and resources she needs to be able to communicate no matter how things turn out for her. Sorry I am rambling on and on. I got a little fired up after one of her therapy sessions today.
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Keep up the good work, Ashley'smommy! It'ss great that you don't take some of the comments as criticism, but merely as concern for your child. Having raised a deaf child, most of the time as a single parent as his father died when he was six, I know the value of an extended support system. I found that in the Deaf community.
 
rick48 said:
neecy,

Good definition, here are a couple others I was able to find:

Although there is no standard definition of culture, most alternatives incorporate the Boasian postulates as in the case of Bates and Plog's offering, which we shall accept as a working version:

Culture: The system of shared beliefs, values, customs, behaviours, and artifacts that the members of society use to cope with their world and with one another, and that are transmitted from generation to generation through learning
This is a complex definition and points to four important characteristics stressed by cultural relativists:
symbolic composition,
systematic patterning,
learned transmission,
societal grounding.


Notes Toward a Definition of Culture
Marshall Soules
In 1871 E.B. Taylor defined culture as "that complex whole which includes knowledge, belief, art, morals, law, customs, and many other capabilities and habits acquired by...[members] of society."

"Culture means the total body of tradition borne by a society and transmitted from generation to generation. It thus refers to the norms, values, standards by which people act, and it includes the ways distinctive in each society of ordering the world and rendering it intelligible. Culture is...a set of mechanisms for survival, but it provides us also with a definition of reality. It is the matrix into which we are born, it is the anvil upon which our persons and destinies are forged." (Robert Murphy. Culture and Social Anthropology: An Overture. 2nd ed. Englewood Cliffs, NJ: Prentice Hall, 1986: 14)



And from the American Heritage Dictionary:
The totality of socially transmitted behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, and all other products of human work and thought
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Thanks for repeating the definition I already gave. Symbolic composition, by the way, is LANGUAGE.
 
rick48 said:
That is your opinion but it is premised upon a false assumption. One does not need Deaf Culture to know that one is a whole and complete beautiful person. That same positive self-image can be fostered and developed by strong parental love, a loving and warm family environment, religion, the installation of a strong value, moral and ethics system and many other factors.
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And so much of that information is transmitted peripherally. If you are not able to establish free flowing and natural communication, that information does not get transmitted. But as shel said, your daughter is happy, so what does it matter? Even though you already admitted in another thread that now that she is in college she is acquiring more deaf friends and learning some sign.....:dunno:
 
PuyoPiyo said:
I am very passed on this thread, and don't know what's going on here, but I want to post my debate.

Even though I have a CI myself, I think parent's decision on newborn pro deaf baby to get CI is VERY VERY VERY wrong. Also I think it should be illegal.

The CI is a surgery option, not a communication option. If you want to find a cheaper way, just let the children to go to deaf school and stay there, let that children be happy what he/she is. You absolute don't have to learn sign, you can just write to your children! Simple. Or maybe you can make a home sign language. That is the cheapest way instead trying to rip government off, or wasting lot of money on the CI.

Also the CI do not help me to learn how to talk. It only help me to understand the sounds, but for my talking, no, not really. I only can talk very slowly, at very simple words.

If my children are hearing, I am deaf, would I force my children to sign? Of course not. It is UP to the children. If my hearing children don't want to learn the sign, fine with me, we can write.

It always hurt my feelings when parents say "It's not your business, that is my decision for our children". I feel like what about the children? Is that what children want? Will that children be happy with the parent's decision?

I believe those parents who decide that way absolute don't care about the children, but only the best for them.

Sorry for the angry response, but I just don't like the view of parent's decision.
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Don't apologise...you have every right to state your opinion. And since you have lived through the situation, you opinion is much more valuable than that of someone who has watched from the sidelines.
 
R2D2 said:
Out of interest, how old were you when you received your CI?

Also, what you said about it being cheaper to send the child to a deaf school is not true. Believe it or not, it's cheaper for the government to pay for a child to get a CI than to pay for a child to be raised in deaf schools etc.

Also, many of the parents who have implanted their children on this forum sign to their children as well as speak.
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Many children who are implanted end up in deaf schools anyway.
 
:gpost: :gpost: :gpost:
PuyoPiyo said:
18, Very properly way. My parents refuse to force me to have the CI till I made up my decision. My parents respect what I am. I love my parents and I gave much thanks to my parents.



Not governments, I mean it's cheaper for parents to do that. It's actually better for parents and the children's right/health's sake.



Well, so I am not welcome to expressed my opinion? THIS is Deaf's Forum, if they don't want be around Deaf people who are against CI, then they can just go to specificially CI supporter forum somewhere else. As far as they know there is some Deafies are against the CI here. It's not my fault.
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shel90 said:
How many times in so many threads that I am all for exposing the child to both? Pls provide me a link where I said no deaf child should get speech therapy. All I ask is that the deaf children be exposed to sign language and the Deaf community..that's all.

What I said about hapy and well adjusted oral deaf children doesn't mean I don't care about them. Maybe it came out harsher but I was frustrated last night. What I mean is that if they r happy and well adjusted then great. What more can I do for them if everything is working out great for them? No need to change anything as long as they r doing good socially/emotionally/academically. That's what I mean that I don't have a passion for them cuz what is there to fight for if they r fine? Right? It is those that suffer and lost a lot only because people didn't really ensure that they were exposed to both. That's what angers me and what I have the passion about in my career.

Only thing I hope is that those who r orally deaf and doing fine is have some awareness that there is a signing community out there and give them the opportunities to participate and then decide whether to be involved or not. Even if they r happy and well adjusted in the hearing world, it doesn't hurt to also expose them to the signing community. If the parents say there is no need to then that's sad cuz there r many deaf children who can't speak nor lipread due to not succeedin with speech therapy and they have a limited number of people to meet and interact too. Wud be nice if schools for the deaf children can make friends with mainstreamed children. I think it is ridiculous to keep them away from each other cuz of communication barriers. Iam trying to get the deaf school students to meet more deaf children outside of their schools but it is hard cuz so many children look down on sign language and them just like I did when I was growing up orally.
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He's never going to understand it, shel, because he has no desire to understand it. He has no desire to learn anything about what so many deaf children go nor does he have any empathy for these kids. His only cocncern is pushing his limited narrow minded viewpoint off on others. He is disrtespectful to the deaf posters on this board, and treats them as if their life experience doesn't count for shyte. It is useless to respond to his posts, because when you bring up a valid point, he twists your words to make them say whatever he wants them to. People like him are a complete waste of time.
 
jillio said:
Many children who are implanted end up in deaf schools anyway.
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I'm confused. An arguement is going here that parents who implant their children with CI's are ignoring their "deaf cultural" rights, and trying to fix them, and yet if a child with a CI goes to a deaf school they are "ending up" there as if its an afterthought? Is the concept of parents WANTING children to attend a deaf school so they can experience both hearing and deaf worlds such an alien thing?

One thing I would like to bring up, though - in defense of parents who go the mainstreamed/oral route in schools - deaf schools have such a poor performance rating that even *I* would be scared to send a child to one. When I attended RIT/NTID, my two roommates, *deaf-highschool graduates* could not read & understand a book they had to take for their NTID english class that I had read in 7th grade. I found that shocking! They both were constantly coming to me for tutoring in their math/english homework because they couldn't understand it. What *I* couldn't understand is how they could graduate a child who didn't even have a 7th grade level of English comprehension.
 
jillio said:
He's never going to understand it, shel, because he has no desire to understand it. He has no desire to learn anything about what so many deaf children go nor does he have any empathy for these kids. His only cocncern is pushing his limited narrow minded viewpoint off on others. He is disrtespectful to the deaf posters on this board, and treats them as if their life experience doesn't count for shyte. It is useless to respond to his posts, because when you bring up a valid point, he twists your words to make them say whatever he wants them to. People like him are a complete waste of time.
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:nodding as agreement:
 
jillio said:
He's never going to understand it, shel, because he has no desire to understand it. He has no desire to learn anything about what so many deaf children go nor does he have any empathy for these kids. His only cocncern is pushing his limited narrow minded viewpoint off on others. He is disrtespectful to the deaf posters on this board, and treats them as if their life experience doesn't count for shyte. It is useless to respond to his posts, because when you bring up a valid point, he twists your words to make them say whatever he wants them to. People like him are a complete waste of time.
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Now that I got a chance to read back to the posts, u r right. I didn't see the obvious that he twisted my words about not caring for oral deaf children. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I am starting to become like Liebling...not worth to post in these kinds of threads if that's how many of the parents will react to many of our opinions and suggestions due to our experiences.

U r right..let them go and let them be. Just wish them luck with their children.

Besides, u r right about many implanted children ending up in deaf schools. I see that happening at my work. Funny thing is those parents r still pressuring us to get their children to use spoken language fluenty. It is crazy cuz their children have accomplished a lot in other areas so I don't understand why can't they be happy that their children r finally developing literacy skills. The answer...narrow minded views.
 
Shel, please persevere....allow me to interject a wee thing here. I am not an expert, not a trained professional whereas you are.

I think it is almost human nature to overlook students who are succeeding in whatever area; therefore, there is the tendency to be concerned about the not so successful ones. It is with this latter group we see you concentrating the most on in your posts and on the job, which is certainly most admirable and I encourage you to "keep the pedal to the metal" so to speak.

For the sake of the ongoing discussion here, I look to you to say/expound on the successes of the first group; specifically why the oralists you see daily who are successful. This way you will bring a balanced view because you are the working professional here. I think your detractors here on this board would appreciate that. After all, when it comes to IEP time, you submit goals for both groups in conjunction with parental input, etc, etc... So I look to you for that. Hang in there!

Just for the record and for your edification, I am deaf (HoH), fluent in ASL and everything in between, depending on who I am talking/signing to.
 
jillio said:
He's never going to understand it, shel, because he has no desire to understand it. He has no desire to learn anything about what so many deaf children go nor does he have any empathy for these kids. His only cocncern is pushing his limited narrow minded viewpoint off on others. He is disrtespectful to the deaf posters on this board, and treats them as if their life experience doesn't count for shyte. It is useless to respond to his posts, because when you bring up a valid point, he twists your words to make them say whatever he wants them to. People like him are a complete waste of time.
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:gpost: :gpost: :gpost: :gpost: :gpost: Rick48 is on my ignore list! :gives: :gives: :gives: what Rick says! :) :) :)
 
shel90 said:
Now that I got a chance to read back to the posts, u r right. I didn't see the obvious that he twisted my words about not caring for oral deaf children. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I am starting to become like Liebling...not worth to post in these kinds of threads if that's how many of the parents will react to many of our opinions and suggestions due to our experiences.

U r right..let them go and let them be. Just wish them luck with their children.

Besides, u r right about many implanted children ending up in deaf schools. I see that happening at my work. Funny thing is those parents r still pressuring us to get their children to use spoken language fluenty. It is crazy cuz their children have accomplished a lot in other areas so I don't understand why can't they be happy that their children r finally developing literacy skills. The answer...narrow minded views.
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Exactly, I share the same POV as you... It will never work when you tries to convince with good points or share your experience with them.

Yes my many posts (I would say over thousands posts) in the past and present are being ignored/reject or tell me that I have no knowledge about CI because I am not CI user. What is an ignorant and closed minded... :roll:
 
Tousi said:
Shel, please persevere....allow me to interject a wee thing here. I am not an expert, not a trained professional whereas you are.

I think it is almost human nature to overlook students who are succeeding in whatever area; therefore, there is the tendency to be concerned about the not so successful ones. It is with this latter group we see you concentrating the most on in your posts and on the job, which is certainly most admirable and I encourage you to "keep the pedal to the metal" so to speak.

For the sake of the ongoing discussion here, I look to you to say/expound on the successes of the first group; specifically why the oralists you see daily who are successful. This way you will bring a balanced view because you are the working professional here. I think your detractors here on this board would appreciate that. After all, when it comes to IEP time, you submit goals for both groups in conjunction with parental input, etc, etc... So I look to you for that. Hang in there!

Just for the record and for your edification, I am deaf (HoH), fluent in ASL and everything in between, depending on who I am talking/signing to.
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Thank u. I talk and sign too..I like having both not just talking only.

Half of my students have speech therapy added to their IEP goals.

Like Jillo said, Rick is just twisting my words around and making me sound like I Am against CIs and oral deaf people. :roll:

Right now, I don't really care anymore.

Thanks for the words of encouragement. :)
 
shel90 said:
Thank u. I talk and sign too..I like having both not just talking only.

Half of my students have speech therapy added to their IEP goals.

Like Jillo said, Rick is just twisting my words around and making me sound like I Am against CIs and oral deaf people. :roll:

Right now, I don't really care anymore.

Thanks for the words of encouragement. :)
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Thanks, Shel. Well, I just thought if you put out what I know must be some positive things to say about some successful oral kids you see all the time, that you would be perceived as presenting a balanced view to the couple of posters who are getting to be a thorn in your side. So can you expound a little on the successful oralists you see daily? Besides speech therapy?

Thanks again and hang in there....
 
neecy said:
When I attended RIT/NTID, my two roommates, *deaf-highschool graduates* could not read & understand a book they had to take for their NTID english class that I had read in 7th grade. I found that shocking! They both were constantly coming to me for tutoring in their math/english homework because they couldn't understand it. What *I* couldn't understand is how they could graduate a child who didn't even have a 7th grade level of English comprehension.
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OH sheesh! I was in that same shoe! but this time a little different, just english, my two female roommate were already taking liberal arts courses and I haven't.
 
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