It's A Parents Decision

kayla123 said:
My stats are not outdated nor are made up, i just learned of them last week. Just because you chose a different route with your son does not mean that other choices are wrong. You did what you felt was best for your son and so did i. You need to stop making assumptions about everyone elses kids and how they will do in school. I've seen you mention over and over again how the deaf culture helped you raise your son and became his family. My daughter has a big family too but the difference is that my daughters family loves her UNCONDITIONALLY. I cannot say the same for your sons family. Lets just say for example your son chose to get a CI and decided to speak more and sign less, it would be a different story then would'nt it? They would shun him out would'nt they? I've read many posts about that sort of stuff. Luckily my daughter won't have that problem if she decided to stop using her CI. She could grow horns for all they care and they would love her just the same. I don't need any luck thank you. You need to get over yourself and stop thinking that you are right all the time because this may come as a shock to you but your not.
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HOW DARE YOU! First of all, my son is loved unconditionally. And he doesn't need to speak to make it so. If he chooses to receive a CI at a later point in time--he is 21 now, and still sees no use for it--then his decision will be supported just as he has been supported all of his life. His value and his worth is not dependent upon his ability to act hearing.

My son was given love by a group of peole who are not related to him. That is a wonderful and beautiful gift. He was unfortunate to loose his father when he was but six years old, and that added an additional burden to his life. The Deaf community stepped up and filled a role for him that he needed filled. How dare you discount the wonderful gifts that they have given him.

It is not just my experience that makes me believe I have chosed the correct road for my son. It is his success in life, and it is the stories of thousands upon thousands of Deaf people who were denied the Deaf communcity and sign language until they bevcame adults. You would do well to listen to them.

I annot believe your arrogance. You come to a Deaf message board supposedly to gain information about deafness, and then anytime someone voices an opinion different than yours, you treat them as if their experience and their life does not count for shyte. If you don't want to hear what the deaf world has to say, what the hell are you doing here? Go to an oral site, where people like you can congratulate each other all day long on what great jobs they are doing. The come back here when your daughter grows up, and finds her way into the deaf community.

You don not know my son's family, and to make an assumption about them the way yopu have done is not only insulting, it is libelous. I suggest you learn some social skills before posting anmy more replies to anything.

To the rest of the posters on this board: I apologize. This just really pissed me off!
 
shel90 said:
HMMM..I think u might have read her wrong...this is what she said...

Am i saying that you have to speak in order to make it in this world, no of course not but i am trying to knock down some barriers for her and making sure she has both oral and signing skill.

I dont know how u interpreted it but I interpreted it that she wants her daughter to have both??

From my understanding she is saying that by being able to speak, barriers will be knocked down.
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OOPs, my bad. I apologize for that one.
 
Cheri said:
Yes and she also said It's up to the parents too, which I don't agree with that, Most of us experience what it was like in our walks of life with how our parents choose, and it didn't always turn out to be the right decision, It seems to me those parents don't want to hear our advice, so I'm bowling out of this thread. ;)
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I feel u!!! I thought the parents come here to learn about Deaf Culture and what it is like but I sure dont feel that way with some of the parents here. I agree with them about how nobody should tell them how to raise their children or make decisions for them but to discount our suggestions and experiences stings a bit, doesnt it?
 
kayla123 said:
My stats are not outdated nor are made up, i just learned of them last week. Just because you chose a different route with your son does not mean that other choices are wrong. You did what you felt was best for your son and so did i. You need to stop making assumptions about everyone elses kids and how they will do in school. I've seen you mention over and over again how the deaf culture helped you raise your son and became his family. My daughter has a big family too but the difference is that my daughters family loves her UNCONDITIONALLY. I cannot say the same for your sons family. Lets just say for example your son chose to get a CI and decided to speak more and sign less, it would be a different story then would'nt it? They would shun him out would'nt they? I've read many posts about that sort of stuff. Luckily my daughter won't have that problem if she decided to stop using her CI. She could grow horns for all they care and they would love her just the same. I don't need any luck thank you. You need to get over yourself and stop thinking that you are right all the time because this may come as a shock to you but your not.
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Nah, they wouldnt shun him just for getting a CI. There are many people in the deaf community that are against CIs but not everyone. That's a huge difference. The only thing that most of us are against is people looking down on us saying that they dont need to learn sign too but we have to learn to speak to be able to interact with the hearing world. That's why I am so appreciative of the hearing members who have no ties to the deaf community and they say that they want to learn sign language and deaf culture. I love that! I hate it when people say.."sign language is not needed so there is no use for it." Ouch! Maybe u will agree with some of the parents with that view but this is a deaf messaging board and many of us value sign language just as much as u all value spoken language.
 
kayla123 said:
My stats are not outdated nor are made up, i just learned of them last week. Just because you chose a different route with your son does not mean that other choices are wrong. You did what you felt was best for your son and so did i. You need to stop making assumptions about everyone elses kids and how they will do in school. I've seen you mention over and over again how the deaf culture helped you raise your son and became his family. My daughter has a big family too but the difference is that my daughters family loves her UNCONDITIONALLY. I cannot say the same for your sons family. Lets just say for example your son chose to get a CI and decided to speak more and sign less, it would be a different story then would'nt it? They would shun him out would'nt they? I've read many posts about that sort of stuff. Luckily my daughter won't have that problem if she decided to stop using her CI. She could grow horns for all they care and they would love her just the same. I don't need any luck thank you. You need to get over yourself and stop thinking that you are right all the time because this may come as a shock to you but your not.
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Usually I ignore this kind of posts, but this was a insulting one, wow. I think you, Kayla123, and Rick48 for celebrating this post, should make an excuse here.

I am not sure if it is legal to insult a group of people like this by american laws. Perhaps the administrator needs to watch this thread, in case it gets worse.
 
Jillo, don't apologize please i does to be my understanding how you feeling to be pissed off as i would to be the same , can't believe what i read some of posts here that is why it turn me off in biggest time . so from now on i am going to ignore those who think know better than us it waste of time . :roll:
 
I just noticed Rockdrummer's avatar - "gone". It looks as if he might have left Alldeaf. :(
 
R2D2 said:
I just noticed Rockdrummer's avatar - "gone". It looks as if he might have left Alldeaf. :(
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Oh well..he is a good guy. Just because people, myself included, misunderstood his posts doesnt mean we dont want him here. Sometimes, the problem with these boards is that we are not interacting face to face and people have different interpretations of what other people say. Sometimes it gets frustrating...maybe that is what happened with him?
 
R2D2 said:
I just noticed Rockdrummer's avatar - "gone". It looks as if he might have left Alldeaf. :(
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Yes he did, I had a talk with him out of AllDeaf, Hopefully he'll be back, I love this guy! :( and shel90, You're correct it is because of that, misunderstanding to what he was trying to say. ;)
 
I did not insult any group of people here, i got these facts from different posts here. I come here to the CI forum to discuss CI issues. I wanna thank alldeaf for opening my eyes and getting a taste of what the deaf culture would be like for my daughter...no thanks. I would never in a million years expose my daughter to the hostility and 1 sided minds that i see here. Whatever she chooses later is up to her but for now no way. I read all i can from this site, thank you again.
 
kayla123 said:
I did not insult any group of people here, i got these facts from different posts here. I come here to the CI forum to discuss CI issues. I wanna thank alldeaf for opening my eyes and getting a taste of what the deaf culture would be like for my daughter...no thanks. I would never in a million years expose my daughter to the hostility and 1 sided minds that i see here. Whatever she chooses later is up to her but for now no way. I read all i can from this site, thank you again.
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Kayla, you need to get in touch with the deaf community in person. You're not going to get all of your answers here and the reason why you may think people here are being hostile. The truth is, both sides are being hostile.

This is a common pattern that I see between hearing parents and the deaf adults. Mainly because of how their opinions differ. The reason why deaf adults may appear hostile is because of their struggles they faced in their childhood and later in their years because of the opposition and the lack of support received by their families. Many will be aggressive in bringing their opinions across to the hearing parents because they don't want to see it happen to any children like it did to them even if they are wrong, but they do care about the children.

One thing the hearing parents here need to remember, they are in their first few years of dealing with a deaf child. Therefore, many of them don't know what's in the store for them in the future. It's pretty obvious most of them never had a deaf relative/friend/associate and they usually don't know anything about the problems among the deaf till they have a deaf child.

So many of them end up coming here to learn more only to end up getting involved with arguments and all sort of emotional disputes. Like I said, both sides are hostile, no matter how one may try to defend one side. It's the same old story.

The forum here is not the only place for the deaf, there's many websites and there is one particular site where several blog entries are linked on on a daily basis.

http://www.deafread.com

and here's my blog, http://banjosworld.blogspot.com

Hopefully, you will find some of these helpful.
 
kayla123 said:
First of all you were implanted older and thats why you did'nt learn to speak. Second of all i really don't care that sending my child to a deaf school would be cheaper. That has to be one of the most ridiculous excuses i've heard. My daughters implant was worth every cent that was spent on it, so please don't put a price on my daughters communication skills. Why in the world would i want to communicate with my own daughter with a paper and pencil?? Of course i would've make every effort to learn sign a lot sooner if i had noticed her oral language failing her. She will get a better education being mainstreamed especially after finding out that most kids in deaf schools graduate 8th grade with a 4th grade reading level.
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(MOD NOTE: removed comment for name-calling)

I was born deaf and went to mainstreamed school at 10 months old. I went to speech therapy almost every day at school from preschool to 12th grade. I did not have CIs, but wore BTE Hearing Aids. I graduated from high school with a vocabulary and reading skills equal to the average Junior student in college!

What did I get out of this?? I was able to speak well, but was I a happy child/teenager?? No. No one bothered to include me in their conversations or their activities in circles of friends or family. Nobody cared if I was happy or not. All they want from me is to "speak and hear" like hearing people and make them happy. What about my self-esteem, self-pride and happiness as a human being?!?!

The results from oralism and from using CIs without using sign is a sure-fire way to immediately end your relationship with your deaf child. If you go pro-CI without ASL and have unrealistic expectations of your deaf child, you're asking for an embittered, bratty little shit..

And remember, it is YOUR fault! Not the child's.
 
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kayla123 said:
I did not insult any group of people here, i got these facts from different posts here. I come here to the CI forum to discuss CI issues. I wanna thank alldeaf for opening my eyes and getting a taste of what the deaf culture would be like for my daughter...no thanks. I would never in a million years expose my daughter to the hostility and 1 sided minds that i see here. Whatever she chooses later is up to her but for now no way. I read all i can from this site, thank you again.
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Not the best move to make as a parent. An immature parent would do that rash decision.

It is amazing to see how many hearing parents are quick to blame Deaf people and Deaf culture.

When I first started learning ASL, my parents got upset, thinking I would lose my speech skills. My dad was angry because he wouldn't be able to understand my signs. After 11 years of using ASL, my mom confessed to me that she regrets not having ASL in my life earlier because I was a happier person using ASL compared the sad, angry, oral teenager that I used to be.

Again, most hearing parents are so paternalistic and Audistic, they would never listen to Deaf people's advices and experiences.

Let's all worship the Hearing Religion!!!!
 
Deaf258 said:
(MOD NOTE: removed comment for name-calling)

I was born deaf and went to mainstreamed school at 10 months old. I went to speech therapy almost every day at school from preschool to 12th grade. I did not have CIs, but wore BTE Hearing Aids. I graduated from high school with a vocabulary and reading skills equal to the average Junior student in college!

What did I get out of this?? I was able to speak well, but was I a happy child/teenager?? No. No one bothered to include me in their conversations or their activities in circles of friends or family. Nobody cared if I was happy or not. All they want from me is to "speak and hear" like hearing people and make them happy. What about my self-esteem, self-pride and happiness as a human being?!?!

The results from oralism and from using CIs without using sign is a sure-fire way to immediately end your relationship with your deaf child. If you go pro-CI without ASL and have unrealistic expectations of your deaf child, you're asking for an embittered, bratty little shit..

And remember, it is YOUR fault! Not the child's.
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I love your posts! Of course, it's ALWAYS parent's fault following their own decision, without talking with the children about it. It seems like they don't care about what children felt, but only for their will. :roll:
 
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kayla123 said:
I did not insult any group of people here, i got these facts from different posts here. I come here to the CI forum to discuss CI issues. I wanna thank alldeaf for opening my eyes and getting a taste of what the deaf culture would be like for my daughter...no thanks. I would never in a million years expose my daughter to the hostility and 1 sided minds that i see here. Whatever she chooses later is up to her but for now no way. I read all i can from this site, thank you again.
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This is what you said:

Of course i would've make every effort to learn sign a lot sooner if i had noticed her oral language failing her.

That is what so many parents did to many other deaf children when oral language failed but what u dont realize that it takes years to recognize that oral language is failing a child and by the time that is identified, the child has lost years of language acquistion and that is what many of us are trying to tell u the importance of exposing your child to both immediately after diagnoses. We care about your daughter and because we have seen that mistake with other deaf children and as a result, they are delayed in language. If u cant accept that advice or take it as an insult to u, then that is your decision on how u want to take it. We are simply trying to help due to the experiences we have had with that view hurting many deaf children. No, we are not saying u are hurting your daughter but just a FYI. Up to u if u want to take that advice or not. Nobody is forcing u.

She will get a better education being mainstreamed especially after finding out that most kids in deaf schools graduate 8th grade with a 4th grade reading level.

In your last post, u said u got your facts from other posts so by saying that about Deaf schools is a real insult if u took what other people said about deaf schools literally without doing your own research. U are not only insulting many of the smart and successful deaf people who have professional degrees thanks to Deaf schools. My brother is one of them and he takes pride graduating from a Deaf school. By saying that your daughter will get a better education being mainstreamed is basically saying that deaf schools are worthless. I havent seen u asking us more about deaf schools. U already made that conclusion based on other posts according to your last post. I was mainstreamed and my education and my brother's education werent the same. Guess what? He got the better education from his Deaf school because he was able to learn from his peers too while I couldnt.

When I see something being said like that about Deaf schools without actual sources supporting your comments, I will be blunt about it.



If u want to take what some people have reacted to u here on AD and apply it to the 1 million deaf people, that is your decision. Not all of us are like that but judging from your post about deaf schools and your recent ones, you seem like the kind who is so quick to judge all of us and u say that we are quick to judge parents too quickly? Two wrongs doesnt make a right.

I was faced with the same hostility as u were when I first started trying to get involved with the deaf community due to my mainstreaming upbringing but I didnt give up..I told a lot of people off and eventually some of them came to respect me and I found the people that I clicked with. I am not friends with everyone in the Deaf community and I do have enemies but that doesnt make me generalize my problems with other Deaf people to the whole Deaf community. My suggestion is for u not to do the same but it is just a suggestion so u dont have to take it or not.
 
Deaf258 said:
Not the best move to make as a parent. An immature parent would do that rash decision.

It is amazing to see how many hearing parents are quick to blame Deaf people and Deaf culture.

When I first started learning ASL, my parents got upset, thinking I would lose my speech skills. My dad was angry because he wouldn't be able to understand my signs. After 11 years of using ASL, my mom confessed to me that she regrets not having ASL in my life earlier because I was a happier person using ASL compared the sad, angry, oral teenager that I used to be.

Again, most hearing parents are so paternalistic and Audistic, they would never listen to Deaf people's advices and experiences.

Let's all worship the Hearing Religion!!!!
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My mom regrets not exposing me to ASL when I was a child. She said she can see how happier I am with it.
 
Banjo said:
Kayla, you need to get in touch with the deaf community in person. You're not going to get all of your answers here and the reason why you may think people here are being hostile. The truth is, both sides are being hostile.

This is a common pattern that I see between hearing parents and the deaf adults. Mainly because of how their opinions differ. The reason why deaf adults may appear hostile is because of their struggles they faced in their childhood and later in their years because of the opposition and the lack of support received by their families. Many will be aggressive in bringing their opinions across to the hearing parents because they don't want to see it happen to any children like it did to them even if they are wrong, but they do care about the children.

One thing the hearing parents here need to remember, they are in their first few years of dealing with a deaf child. Therefore, many of them don't know what's in the store for them in the future. It's pretty obvious most of them never had a deaf relative/friend/associate and they usually don't know anything about the problems among the deaf till they have a deaf child.

So many of them end up coming here to learn more only to end up getting involved with arguments and all sort of emotional disputes. Like I said, both sides are hostile, no matter how one may try to defend one side. It's the same old story.
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:gpost: !! That's what I was pointing out too, We don't want to see the same thing happenings to the future children with cochlear implant or not like it did to us, That was the point I was making from the get and go in this entire thread. ;)
 
"...By saying that your daughter will get a better education being mainstreamed is basically saying that deaf schools are worthless..."

No, that is not what she is saying, not even close. A choice indicates a preference over other choices and not necessarily that all other possible choices are "worthless".


For example:

When my oldest daughter was deciding on high schools, we looked at Catholic High Schools as an alternative to her public high school. We choose the public school. By your reasoning we deemed Catholic High Schools as worthless. Yet, when we went through the same process with our younger daughter, we chose the Catholic High School. Now according to your reasoning we deemed the public school as worthless.

Instead of choosing, according to your reasoning, contradictory schools, could it possibly be, like most choices parents have to make for their children, you look at what is best for your child?

Again, it all comes back to the fact that there is no one correct way to raise any child, even a deaf one!
Rick
 
Excellent postings everyone! Yes, Kayla123, for all you know maybe your daughter might in the future post on boards about her experiance growing up. There's NOBODY here saying "oral skills suck. Do ASL ONLY!" We're just trying to give our experiance as kids who actually grew up under the philosophy in which you're raising your daughter. Not everyone here grew up with exposure to ASL/Sign you know! There are HUGE HUGE negatives to being oral only. We're not bashing oral skills. Many of us are VERY glad that we have oral skills....we're just wondering why kids still have to grow up without Sign.
Just b/c a kid's an oral sucess it doesn't mean that Sign won't help them.
I remember there used to be a poster here, who was exposed to both ASL and speech at an early age, and she (of her OWN accord) chose SPEECH!!!
It's just like, the way my best friend who is legally blind, used residual vision while growing up . He says that he wishes he could have learned Braille and other alternative methods growing up. Oral kids haven't really acheived all that much better then TC kids. Did you know for example that part of the reason why there are still upper grades at oral schools, is b/c a lot of kids don't thrive in the mainstream, and so have to return back to oral programs b/c there isn't anything much out there for oral only kids!

Do you have any facts to back up that opinion?
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I'm really busy right now as I'm trying to get everything in, since its the end of the semester. But I can tell you that there are VERY high rates of drug and alchohol abuse in the "hearing impaired community. I know too that Sherry aka LTH has said that a lot of the people she's seen get bilateral implants have gone off their antidepressants. Also, there are usually HUGE rates of mental illnesses in populations of people who are severely marginalized.
"
I do see SOME people bashing on methods"

Other than the oral only route, what other methods have been bashed on this forum?
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Cued Speech, SEE, basicly anything and everything that's not ASL have been bashed!


"A lot of times, oralism and mainstreaming are presented as some sort of wonderful glorious utopia with NO downsides."


True, but the same is done with ASL and Deaf Culture. It seems to be more of a factor of the methodolgy chosen by the poster.
Nope, not in the same way thou. Oralism and mainstreaming are painted as "Your child won't "need" special schools or special methods (and look at the ads for Auditory Verbal programs in Volta Voices) and can be "normal".......there's no downside whatsoever for going this route. Why wouldn't you want your kid to be "normal?"




What choice is there that is all peaches n' cream?
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There's no perfect choice no.........but I mean acknowledging that dhh kids need more then just speech skills(by exposing them to Sign/ Cued Speech etc_ to suceed comes a lot closer then just "concentrate on speech skills and then your child will be able to magically assimulate into the hearing world with no problems whatsoever
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