It's A Parents Decision

R2D2 said:
When I was growing up in mainstream, one of the peripetic teachers who looked after me was a deaf man. When I was a kid, we deaf kids got taken out to see a concert by a deaf musician called Evelyn Glennie. Music isn't my thing but it certainly left me with the impression that deaf people can do anything. And one of my good deaf friends is a teacher for deaf children too, here in Australia. She has two CIs and is fluent in sign :) She teaches children to sign who have no language at all at the age of 5 and above. If you think the parents here are bad, you should look at some of her students' parents. They cannot even be bothered with their kids and never talk to them, either orally or by sign. That to me is the saddest thing and here we are, arguing about this. A child without any sort of parental bond is in a very sad place indeed.
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I never said the parents here are bad. Those kinds of parents are what I deal with at my work. I dont know how all the finger pointing started but I joined here and started sharing my experiences and opinions and then now it is at the point where I dont even know how it got to this point.

All I just offered my experiences, my opinions and feedback but I get attacked as trying to attack the parents. Maybe some wording were taken differently..I cant remember anymore but I learned that I am not gonna offer my advice unless asked.
 
Cloggy said:
I agree, It's beautiful to see them sign.
So is a little child speaking french... It's beautiflu, amazing!! A child speaking chinese... wonderfull. A child signing, great.....

You should hear all these little children speak!! That's beautiful as well.
Not knowing sign is NOT a loss. It's just the way it is.

They don't have any use for it.... they don't use it...[/QUOTE]

Funny u say that cuz so many hearing people say that the deaf and hearing communities need to bridge the gap but with comments like that ( I have heard that told to my parents about me), it makes it kinda hard to bridge the gap. Why? Many of us have to learn how to interact with hearing people by getting CIs, going to speech therapy and being mainstreamed with only hearing people..yes, good skills but what about hearing families of deaf children meeting us halfway by taking their children to deaf shows, ASL storytelling, or meeting deaf signers? Why not?

By saying that not knowing sign is NOT a loss it is like we deaf signers are not valued on this planet?? Yea, we are just a small community which contributes nothing to society but just drain society's resources according to some hearing people's comments in other threads about SSI or interpreting. Great outlook on us, huh? Apparently Oral deafies are valued more to society is that what u are saying?
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jillio said:
AMEN! I have come to the conclusion that most people ask the questions, but if you give them an answer other than what they have already decided is the one they want, your experience and wisdom are then devalued. I don't get it. The most valuable advise I got when I was raising my son came from the Deaf community. Noone else on this earth could tell me what it was to be a deaf child except Deaf adults. They provided me with answers and insight that the hearing professionals--audiologists, ENTs, CI specialists--never even thought about.
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I came in here hoping to help hearing families with my experiences and feedback but now I do not feel that way. I was made to feel like I was biased or I am attacking them.

Jillo, u and other parents like u are very valued in the deaf community. We would love to feel the same for other parents but if they dont value our opinions, expeeriences or suggestions, kinda hard to do that. Many of us grew up forcing to value the hearing culture and its values ..would be nice if the same can be done for us.

I am sorry..the hearing population is bigger than the deaf population so therefore, we have to meet their needs fully but they dont need to meet our needs. Too bad that many deaf people struggle to assimilate fully in the hearing world even if they tried so hard, right?
 
R2D2 said:
When I was growing up in mainstream, one of the peripetic teachers who looked after me was a deaf man. When I was a kid, we deaf kids got taken out to see a concert by a deaf musician called Evelyn Glennie. Music isn't my thing but it certainly left me with the impression that deaf people can do anything. And one of my good deaf friends is a teacher for deaf children too, here in Australia. She has two CIs and is fluent in sign :) She teaches children to sign who have no language at all at the age of 5 and above. If you think the parents here are bad, you should look at some of her students' parents. They cannot even be bothered with their kids and never talk to them, either orally or by sign. That to me is the saddest thing and here we are, arguing about this. A child without any sort of parental bond is in a very sad place indeed.
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I so agree with you on that. And the key to parent child bond is communication--not just an occasional conversation about what you had for breakfast, but real, honest, free flowing communication.
 
shel90 said:
Cloggy said:
I agree, It's beautiful to see them sign.
So is a little child speaking french... It's beautiflu, amazing!! A child speaking chinese... wonderfull. A child signing, great.....

You should hear all these little children speak!! That's beautiful as well.
Not knowing sign is NOT a loss. It's just the way it is.

They don't have any use for it.... they don't use it...[/QUOTE]

Funny u say that cuz so many hearing people say that the deaf and hearing communities need to bridge the gap but with comments like that ( I have heard that told to my parents about me), it makes it kinda hard to bridge the gap. Why? Many of us have to learn how to interact with hearing people by getting CIs, going to speech therapy and being mainstreamed with only hearing people..yes, good skills but what about hearing families of deaf children meeting us halfway by taking their children to deaf shows, ASL storytelling, or meeting deaf signers? Why not?

By saying that not knowing sign is NOT a loss it is like we deaf signers are not valued on this planet?? Yea, we are just a small community which contributes nothing to society but just drain society's resources according to some hearing people's comments in other threads about SSI or interpreting. Great outlook on us, huh? Apparently Oral deafies are valued more to society is that what u are saying?
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Sometimes they try to defend their positions of promoting oral skills above all, and end up making comments that are extremely insulting to the Deaf community. And then they wonder why they are rejected or criticized.:dunno: If you want to be accepted into a group, and you truly want to understand, yopu don't do it by telling them that their way of life is inferior to your own.:rifle:
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jillio said:
Sometimes, that superiority complex is a mask for a great deal of inferiority.
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Yea, sometimes but I do know people like that and they do actually like themselves. :dunno:
 
shel90 said:
I came in here hoping to help hearing families with my experiences and feedback but now I do not feel that way. I was made to feel like I was biased or I am attacking them.

Jillo, u and other parents like u are very valued in the deaf community. We would love to feel the same for other parents but if they dont value our opinions, expeeriences or suggestions, kinda hard to do that. Many of us grew up forcing to value the hearing culture and its values ..would be nice if the same can be done for us.

I am sorry..the hearing population is bigger than the deaf population so therefore, we have to meet their needs fully but they dont need to meet our needs. Too bad that many deaf people struggle to assimilate fully in the hearing world even if they tried so hard, right?
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You are so right. I just don't understand the parents that read the stories of the deaf posters here, and read all the words about the struggles and the unhappiness they suffered without sign and without that cultural connection and then not want to do what is necessary to prevent that happening to their own child. That is why I have valued the stories of people like you and Cheri, and all the other posters who are generous enough to share. You guys tell us what is was like becasue you hope to prevent another child from suffering the same injustices as you have suffered. Don't these parents realize that the majority of people out there really don't give a damn what happens to a child as long as it isn't their child. Here is a whole community that cares for these deaf kids and wants to make their lives easier, and parents simply ignore the oppportunity to do that. I have seen a whole lot of resentful adults who understand that their parents did the best they thought they could, but it doesn't make the pain go away. Well, there is a way to prevent the pain--just listen and do things differently than the parents who have gone before did. It is so simple.

And rather than using their pain and anger to become judgemental and intolerant, these people (you and all the others like you) put in into a positive context and try to use it to the good. To me, that is a heroic thing.

I don't know. Maybe some of these hearing parents just have such a hard time understanding that their precious child is going to suffer these hardships that they just can't face it. Denial is a dangerous thing. I didn't want my son to suffer, either. But the only way to help him was to give him the skills and support available through his deaf family that would teach him how to deal with it with the fewest number of scars.
 
jillio said:
shel90 said:
Sometimes they try to defend their positions of promoting oral skills above all, and end up making comments that are extremely insulting to the Deaf community. And then they wonder why they are rejected or criticized.:dunno: If you want to be accepted into a group, and you truly want to understand, yopu don't do it by telling them that their way of life is inferior to your own.:rifle:
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That was the view I was brainwashed into thinking...that sign language is not needed for me cuz I could speak well and blah blah. Turned out that those so-called specialists were very wrong on that one and my mother has huge regrets and blames herself for being stubborn about raising me as "hearing" cuz she could see how much happier I am now being a part of a community and having that connection.
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Cloggy said:
I agree, It's beautiful to see them sign.
So is a little child speaking french... It's beautiflu, amazing!! A child speaking chinese... wonderfull. A child signing, great.....

You should hear all these little children speak!! That's beautiful as well.
Not knowing sign is NOT a loss. It's just the way it is.

They don't have any use for it.... they don't use it...
Click to expand...

I"ve said it before, and I'll say it again--"music seen is as beautiful as music heard." Or more to the point for this thread, "Language seen is as beautiful as language heard." For a deaf child, not knowing sign is a definate loss--and not knowing the deaf culture that gives them pride and confidence in who they are, and teaches them that they are not defective hearing people, but whole and beautiful deaf people is criminal.
 
shel90 said:
jillio said:
That was the view I was brainwashed into thinking...that sign language is not needed for me cuz I could speak well and blah blah. Turned out that those so-called specialists were very wrong on that one and my mother has huge regrets and blames herself for being stubborn about raising me as "hearing" cuz she could see how much happier I am now being a part of a community and having that connection.
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I know exactly what you mean. Language is a big part of it, but actually feeling that sameness of experience is soooooo important for a child to develop mentally and emotionally.
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jillio said:
You are so right. I just don't understand the parents that read the stories of the deaf posters here, and read all the words about the struggles and the unhappiness they suffered without sign and without that cultural connection and then not want to do what is necessary to prevent that happening to their own child. That is why I have valued the stories of people like you and Cheri, and all the other posters who are generous enough to share. You guys tell us what is was like becasue you hope to prevent another child from suffering the same injustices as you have suffered. Don't these parents realize that the majority of people out there really don't give a damn what happens to a child as long as it isn't their child. Here is a whole community that cares for these deaf kids and wants to make their lives easier, and parents simply ignore the oppportunity to do that. I have seen a whole lot of resentful adults who understand that their parents did the best they thought they could, but it doesn't make the pain go away. Well, there is a way to prevent the pain--just listen and do things differently than the parents who have gone before did. It is so simple.

And rather than using their pain and anger to become judgemental and intolerant, these people (you and all the others like you) put in into a positive context and try to use it to the good. To me, that is a heroic thing.

I don't know. Maybe some of these hearing parents just have such a hard time understanding that their precious child is going to suffer these hardships that they just can't face it. Denial is a dangerous thing. I didn't want my son to suffer, either. But the only way to help him was to give him the skills and support available through his deaf family that would teach him how to deal with it with the fewest number of scars.
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It is funny how the parents connect with the deaf people who say they dont need sign language and are happy being fully assimilated in the hearing world without any involvment with the deaf community. Maybe their children will become like those deaf people and they can mark themselves lucky. I know it is hard work taking their children to speech therapy and all that but all I ask of them is to expose their children to deaf events and sign language. Many of them here say they do but I am getting conflicting comments like what Cloggy just stated about if sign language is not needed then so be it. So, when I react to comments like that, I or others get accused of forgetting that they do sign with their children. They say their kids are in oral only programs and that they talk and talk with their children as much as they can so they can get benefit from the CIs so when is the sign language happening? All I just end up is being very confused.
 
jillio said:
I"ve said it before, and I'll say it again--"music seen is as beautiful as music heard." Or more to the point for this thread, "Language seen is as beautiful as language heard." For a deaf child, not knowing sign is a definate loss--and not knowing the deaf culture that gives them pride and confidence in who they are, and teaches them that they are not defective hearing people, but whole and beautiful deaf people is criminal.
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Many of the deaf children that I know are sooo deprived of language it is not even funny. That is a tragic loss but then again those kids are not those parents' kids so no worries, right?

Ooopss dont forget, it is their kids and their decisions so all is well, right?
 
shel90 said:
Many of the deaf children that I know are sooo deprived of language it is not even funny. That is a tragic loss but then again those kids are not those parents' kids so no worries, right?

Ooopss dont forget, it is their kids and their decisions so all is well, right?
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I know how frustrating it can be to see children that are deprived of learning and mistreated. I see it all the time. You sometimes wish you could shake some sense into the parent or guardian. Each parent has a different way of bringing up their children. Others may not agree with how or what they do but it seems right to them. There is always going to be a disagreement on how to best educate deaf children. They system is not much help so it is up to the parent to make sure the child gets what they feel he or she needs. I have been lucky to have so many people sent to me to help. As long as I stay active in Ashley's education and her progress with her other challenges she will be OK. I am learning with her. I knew little about deafness until I found out Ashley is deaf. I started making phone calls and doing research on-line. I have never been ashamed or kept her deafness from any one. I tell people that stop and try to get her attention that she can't hear them. The biggest response is awww i am so sorry. I say why? She is a perfectly happy baby and that is no reason to feel sorry for her. They look at me like wow. They say they don't know if they could handle it. It's like this Ashley didn't ask to be here. She didn't ask to have the challenges that she does. It is up to me to make sure she gets all the education and resources she needs to be able to communicate no matter how things turn out for her. Sorry I am rambling on and on. I got a little fired up after one of her therapy sessions today.
 
ashleysmommy said:
I know how frustrating it can be to see children that are deprived of learning and mistreated. I see it all the time. You sometimes wish you could shake some sense into the parent or guardian. Each parent has a different way of bringing up their children. Others may not agree with how or what they do but it seems right to them. There is always going to be a disagreement on how to best educate deaf children. They system is not much help so it is up to the parent to make sure the child gets what they feel he or she needs. I have been lucky to have so many people sent to me to help. As long as I stay active in Ashley's education and her progress with her other challenges she will be OK. I am learning with her. I knew little about deafness until I found out Ashley is deaf. I started making phone calls and doing research on-line. I have never been ashamed or kept her deafness from any one. I tell people that stop and try to get her attention that she can't hear them. The biggest response is awww i am so sorry. I say why? She is a perfectly happy baby and that is no reason to feel sorry for her. They look at me like wow. They say they don't know if they could handle it. It's like this Ashley didn't ask to be here. She didn't ask to have the challenges that she does. It is up to me to make sure she gets all the education and resources she needs to be able to communicate no matter how things turn out for her. Sorry I am rambling on and on. I got a little fired up after one of her therapy sessions today.
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Pls dont apologize about rambling! Sounds like u are doing great with Ashley and I know what u mean about people saying "sorry" to you. They said they dont know if they could handle it..they are probably right.

Many of my students came from systems who knew nothing about deaf needs and parents who still stubbornly stick with their beliefs that their children will someday wake up and be able to communicate with them using spoken language. As a result, they are hurting their children by not willing to learn sign language. Gosh, even one parent asked me (a deaf person) what her son was saying. I just couldnt believe it. Oh well..what can I do?
 
if a deaf child is born into a HEARING culture, (ie: a hearing family) how are they being "robbed" of anything? I don't see how they simply acquire "deaf culture" just by BEING deaf.
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Well its like.........say for example a minority baby being adopted by parents who are white. Being raised by white parents, doesn't mean that the baby will automaticly fit in 100% with white culture.
 
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