It's A Parents Decision

[rockdrummer]

I don't know about Cheri but I have stated before deaf culture is not just about CIs or oral vs. ASL. There is so much more to it and usually the good stuff..like for example, I play on a deaf softball team and each summer we participate in the NSAD (National Softball Association of the Deaf). It is a great event that brings literally thousands of deaf, hih and hearing people together. That's what is so great about Deaf culture...ASL storytelling, shows, plays, sports, events, and many more.

It seems to me that most of the parents' only interest in deaf culture was about CIs. That's probably what Cheri meant. If I am wrong Cheri, let me know.

Oh Geeze! Am I not expressing myself properly here. Nobody said anything about deaf culture being about CI's or oral vs. ASL. The point I am so desperatly trying to make is in response to your comment about parents not learning deaf culture because they only participate in CI threads. My response is that there are deaf culture issues disscussed in those threads. That was the point in my response. Are you are Cheri dis-agreeing that deaf culture issues are discussed in CI threads? If not then we are in agreement.

 

[Cheri]

I don't agree with that either and I was simply pointing out that the reality is that some parents will take that route. There is no arguing that point. It's a fact. The real point in my response was that deaf culture issues are discussed in the CI threads. Peace!

Oh okay, My apologies. :Oops:

 

[halford]

I was at a deaf school in Atlanta, GA where 75 percent of the students have CI. They would come in and put away CI in their closets in hte morning then in the afternoon when its time to go home, they put it on. Why? They didnt want it. they had no desire to listen to senseless noises. I wouldnt blame the hearing people if they complain of constant noise. I felt bad for those kids beause it was against their will. Parents who put CI in kids, only want it to make their lives easier for them, not for kids.

BUT to be fair, if beyond reasonable doubt, a kid really want to hear so bad... not pressured by a parent or family member or even peer pressure, this kid can go ahead ahve CI.

I am completely against CI against kids' will but I support CI for the kids who really want it.

 

[shel90]

Oh Geeze! Am I not expressing myself properly here. Nobody said anything about deaf culture being about CI's or oral vs. ASL. The point I am so desperatly trying to make is in response to your comment about parents not learning deaf culture because they only participate in CI threads. My response is that there are deaf culture issues disscussed in those threads. That was the point in my response. Are you are Cheri dis-agreeing that deaf culture issues are discussed in CI threads? If not then we are in agreement.

Yea there r deaf culture issues, but a small part. That was what I am trying to say when I say Deaf culture is not just about CIs and there is much more to Deaf culture than that. By stating that, I already acknowledged that Deaf culture issues do get discussed in those threads.

 

[rockdrummer]

Yea there r deaf culture issues, but a small part. That was what I am trying to say when I say Deaf culture is not just about CIs and there is much more to Deaf culture than that. By stating that, I already acknowledged that Deaf culture issues do get discussed in those threads.

I give up!!!

 

[neecy]

But Cheri - if a deaf child is born into a HEARING culture, (ie: a hearing family) how are they being "robbed" of anything? I don't see how they simply acquire "deaf culture" just by BEING deaf.

Culture can be defined as:

the behaviors and beliefs characteristic of a particular social, ethnic, or age group: the youth culture; the drug culture.
Anthropology. the sum total of ways of living built up by a group of human beings and transmitted from one generation to another

So wouldn't a deaf child born into a hearing family have a HEARING cultural background - after all that's the background of their parents/family.

The reason I'm asking this is I never could understand the "deaf culture" card being thrown around when the majority of deaf children are NOT born into deaf culture. You can't steal what you never had in the first place.

 

[jillio]

Why should it matter which form of sign they are using as long as they are communicating with sign. The whole point is that they are able to communicate with another language other then oral. It's whatever works best for that child whether it be ASL, PSE or whatever. To nitpick about which form to use is a bit much.

See, that's the whole point. I am not criticising you for the decisions you have made, kayla; but if you have to ask why it matters what form of sign they are using you obviously do not have all the informaion you need to make informed decisions. Go back and check some of the posts that shel, and I have made in the educational forums, or in the signlanguage forums. It makes a big difference to the deaf child which form of manual language is used. At least it does if you are concerned about communication, and not simply being able to carry on a short conversation.

 

[Cheri]

But Cheri - if a deaf child is born into a HEARING culture, (ie: a hearing family) how are they being "robbed" of anything? I don't see how they simply acquire "deaf culture" just by BEING deaf.

Culture can be defined as:

the behaviors and beliefs characteristic of a particular social, ethnic, or age group: the youth culture; the drug culture.
Anthropology. the sum total of ways of living built up by a group of human beings and transmitted from one generation to another

So wouldn't a deaf child born into a hearing family have a HEARING cultural background - after all that's the background of their parents/family.

The reason I'm asking this is I never could understand the "deaf culture" card being thrown around when the majority of deaf children are NOT born into deaf culture. You can't steal what you never had in the first place.

So wouldn't a hearing child born into a deaf family should have a deaf cultural background after all that's the background of their parents/family? It is not about the parents/family It's about the child. Why would parents put themselves first before their children? You see how selfish that sounds? It sounds very selfish to me.

I have two hearing sons, I would never do that to my sons, Never.

 

[jillio]

But Cheri - if a deaf child is born into a HEARING culture, (ie: a hearing family) how are they being "robbed" of anything? I don't see how they simply acquire "deaf culture" just by BEING deaf.

Culture can be defined as:

the behaviors and beliefs characteristic of a particular social, ethnic, or age group: the youth culture; the drug culture.
Anthropology. the sum total of ways of living built up by a group of human beings and transmitted from one generation to another

So wouldn't a deaf child born into a hearing family have a HEARING cultural background - after all that's the background of their parents/family.

The reason I'm asking this is I never could understand the "deaf culture" card being thrown around when the majority of deaf children are NOT born into deaf culture. You can't steal what you never had in the first place.

Bad definition of culture. That is more a definition of subculture. True culture is the shared LANGUAGE, values, social norms, traditions, and way of being that are transmitted from one generation to the other. And no, a deaf child born into hearing culture is not necessarily a member of hearing culture. I could live in Bali for most of my life, but as I do not have a shared way of being with the Balinese, I am not culturally Balinese.

 

[jillio]

There is no need to... and we don't have to appease those culturally deaf folks!

Wow! You don't like yourself very much, do you Boult?

 

[Cheri]

Bad definition of culture. That is more a definition of subculture. True culture is the shared LANGUAGE, values, social norms, traditions, and way of being that are transmitted from one generation to the other. And no, a deaf child born into hearing culture is not necessarily a member of hearing culture.

Thank-you so much. I just adore and admire you so much.

 

[jillio]

Well Cheri: My Deaf nephews and niece (who ALL HAVE Deaf parents and are immersed in the Deaf community and use ASL as their language) all go to a hearing, mainstreamed school.. not one of them go to a Deaf or oral school... I guess in their case they aren't the "deaf people who know what's best for all of us" , huh?

Mainstreamed with accommodation, though, right? And they don't need to go to a Deaf school to form a connection to the Deaf communicty--they were born into it. Its the deaf children of hearing parents that struggle. Deaf of Deaf generally are able to function as well or better than hearing of hearing educationally.

 

[jillio]

Your children, your decision.


One question I have...many of your children go to oral schools right? How many of those oral schools or programs emply deaf people as aides or teachers?

Good question, shel. No one seems to recognize the imprtance of deaf role models in assisting their child to develop an identity. That's why they grow up with the idea that they are missing something that hearing people have, and struggle so hard to fit in.

 

[jillio]

Thank-you so much. I just adore and admire you so much.

AWWWW

 

[shel90]

Rockdrummer...I answered your question. I said yes and then I added that Cheri and I weren't talking about those issues only..that there is so much more to learn about Deaf Culture or the Deaf community and u say "i give up." I have no idea what your question is about then.

To Neecy and doubletrouble..

I was born to a hearing family and so were many of my deaf friends. I was completely assimilated in the hearing world and culture but I could never fully feel connected nor fit in no matter how hard I try. When I first got involved with the deaf community at the age of 28, I felt at home within myself. So..if I was born and assimilated into the hearing world all my life, why couldn't I fit in fully? It is cuz my deafness made it impossible and many of my friends and family could never know what it is like to be deaf so they couldn't relate nor sympathize with the frustrations and feelings of isolation I had to deal with all my life. So don't tell me about being born to a hearing culture and that deaf people shud adopt hearing culture values only. I am happy to adopt to both.

If the parents want their children to fully assimilate into the hearing world, fine. I don't really care anymore. I was just trying to help so sorry for trying to help. Geez

 

[flip]

But Cheri - if a deaf child is born into a HEARING culture, (ie: a hearing family) how are they being "robbed" of anything? I don't see how they simply acquire "deaf culture" just by BEING deaf.

Culture can be defined as:

the behaviors and beliefs characteristic of a particular social, ethnic, or age group: the youth culture; the drug culture.
Anthropology. the sum total of ways of living built up by a group of human beings and transmitted from one generation to another

So wouldn't a deaf child born into a hearing family have a HEARING cultural background - after all that's the background of their parents/family.

The reason I'm asking this is I never could understand the "deaf culture" card being thrown around when the majority of deaf children are NOT born into deaf culture. You can't steal what you never had in the first place.

You will maybe understand when kids grow up, and you see they are attracted to other deaf people. This process have been going on for generations, and it is still, even with CI. This is what we call deaf culture.

What really is going on here, to me, is that deaf people can see what needs deaf kids have, and they know what will happen in the future when the kids grow up. We are just telling this to some of their parents, but keeps on getting blamed for forcing choices on them. When we don't join the parents in their praising of their kid beeing the special one, the one that will not follow other deaf people like it has been done in the past, we are accused for not supporting their choices and beeing hostile. Don't take this personal, I am not saying any names!

But I feel symphaty with the upset parents of deaf kids, and can imagine it must be hard to be told that one should raise a kid into something that one cannot see or understand.

A bigger question is why I am writing this, as I bet this has been explained thousands of times in other threads

 

[jillio]

You will maybe understand when kids grow up, and you see they are attracted to other deaf people. This process have been going on for generations, and it is still, even with CI. This is what we call deaf culture.

What really is going on here, to me, is that deaf people can see what needs deaf kids have, and they know what will happen in the future when the kids grow up. We are just telling this to some of their parents, but keeps on getting blamed for forcing choices on them. When we don't join the parents in their praising of their kid beeing the special one, the one that will not follow other deaf people like it has been done in the past, we are accused for not supporting their choices and beeing hostile. Don't take this personal, I am not saying any names!

But I feel symphaty with the upset parents of deaf kids, and can imagine it must be hard to be told that one should raise a kid into something that one cannot see or understand.

A bigger question is why I am writing this, as I bet this has been explained thousands of times in other threads

AMEN! I have come to the conclusion that most people ask the questions, but if you give them an answer other than what they have already decided is the one they want, your experience and wisdom are then devalued. I don't get it. The most valuable advise I got when I was raising my son came from the Deaf community. Noone else on this earth could tell me what it was to be a deaf child except Deaf adults. They provided me with answers and insight that the hearing professionals--audiologists, ENTs, CI specialists--never even thought about.

 

[Cloggy]

You know what I missed most about those little kids, their using of sign language, their cute little hands signing that beautiful language, I haven't seen at least one deaf child with CI that knows sign language, not one. Maybe on this message board, but who knows really. It breaks my heart in pieces because they are robbed out of their Deaf Culture now being only involvement in the hearing world. It's sad to me it is.

I agree, It's beautiful to see them sign.
So is a little child speaking french... It's beautiflu, amazing!! A child speaking chinese... wonderfull. A child signing, great.....

You should hear all these little children speak!! That's beautiful as well.
Not knowing sign is NOT a loss. It's just the way it is.

They don't have any use for it.... they don't use it...

 

[Boult]

Wow! You don't like yourself very much, do you Boult?

I LIKE myself very much!

 

[R2D2]

Your children, your decision.


One question I have...many of your children go to oral schools right? How many of those oral schools or programs emply deaf people as aides or teachers?

When I was growing up in mainstream, one of the peripetic teachers who looked after me was a deaf man. When I was a kid, we deaf kids got taken out to see a concert by a deaf musician called Evelyn Glennie. Music isn't my thing but it certainly left me with the impression that deaf people can do anything. And one of my good deaf friends is a teacher for deaf children too, here in Australia. She has two CIs and is fluent in sign She teaches children to sign who have no language at all at the age of 5 and above. If you think the parents here are bad, you should look at some of her students' parents. They cannot even be bothered with their kids and never talk to them, either orally or by sign. That to me is the saddest thing and here we are, arguing about this. A child without any sort of parental bond is in a very sad place indeed.