It's A Parents Decision

Cheri said:
You came here to learn about the Deaf Culture? I haven't seen you posted in any other threads beside Cochlear Implants.

Most hearing parents don't have any experience with deafness and know nothing about it and many in the medical field tell them to contact speech therapists, or oral programs or encourage cochlear implants to try to "fix" their child. Don't tell me it isn't true, because it is true.

I've read posts by Parents with cochlear implants kids, some of them have talked about teaching their kids sign language, some have said that they don't use it too much, some says that it was not even need to use it anymore, some say they're just started learning and they don't see learning ASL should be requirement, because there's no deaf members in the family. I could go on and on.

You know what I missed most about those little kids, their using of sign language, their cute little hands signing that beautiful language, I haven't seen at least one deaf child with CI that knows sign language, not one. Maybe on this message board, but who knows really. :( It breaks my heart in pieces because they are robbed out of their Deaf Culture now being only involvement in the hearing world. It's sad to me it is.
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That's baloney!! Of course, there will always be parents on both extreme sides, but the parents that I know of whose children have CI's , their children also sign. Is it fluent as a native ASL signer? No, but they can hold basic conversaion.... I , am lucky. I have a little microcosim of the Deaf community in my world. My parents are Deaf, my SIL's and BIL's are Deaf, thier children are deaf, and so is my son.... I am fluent in ASL....There is exposure to deafness all around my son.. yet, he goes to a hearing school, is fully mainstreamed, and is bi-laterally implanted. Does he sign as well as I'd like?? No, but he can have basic conversaton... And he is exposed to AS: every day..(my in-laws live 2 miles from me and they are over quite often). It is my 9 year old who tells me recently that he's "very lucky to be living in an era where he can hear and be deaf"... As much as my son is grateful for his implants, he is also grateful for his deafness as well. His deafness defines him just as much as any other personality trait- he just doesn't use it to be his primary trait....

Yes, there are parents who think that the CI is a "cure" for deafness... and those who are knowledgeable about CI's know that this is not the case.

Hey, it's our job as parents to do what we think is best for our children. There is no magic handbook that has all the answers. We do screw up now and again.. But I know in my case.. every decision that I have ever made about any of my children is well- thought out and all the options are weighed. And the CI is not for everyone.. just like ASL is not the answer as well.. There cannot be generalizations made about parents and their decisions. It's an individual choice.

Just my 2 cents... (for what it's worth).
 
doubletrouble,

I'm baloney? Whatever dude, You don't have a clue. I would never lie about something I have knowledge of, so don't even go there. You said you know someone who has children with CI that knows sign language, well I don't. I haven't seen at least one in real life.

How is that an individual choice for children? They can't choose which method they can use, if they are not aware of any other communication method. Hell, I didn't even know ASL exist until I was in my teen. I don't have deaf parents like you not everyone does.

You also said It's the parents job to do what best for their children, then do it, by giving them many opportunities as possible not just one not just two, but all of them.

Your two cents worth? *drop another penny in your jar* make that 3. ;)
 
rockdrummer said:
Well alot of times the way people talk and the words they choose make me feel like all the hearing parents are lumped into the same catagory. No offense taken.
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I try my best not to talk like that. Pls let me know if I don't use the words "some" or "many".

I agree with Cheri...I mentioned that I have seen about 2 parents participate in other threads other than the CI or oral therapy threads. U r one of them. :)

I applaud u for admitting that u didn't know much about Deaf culture or sign language and that u r willing to learn. I know in the past, I have taken some things that u have said out of context. I have learned from that to be more careful how I interpret people's POVs or posts. Thanks
Pls let me know if I don't emphazise some or many.

:)

Many of us who r involved with the deaf community do understand the need to learn how to interact with the hearing community and most of us don't want to completely isolate ourselves. We just hate it when people say that their children doesn't need to meet deaf people, see no need for sign language, or other cemments like that.

For example, Momoftoes lives in an area where she doesn't have easy acess to the deaf community or the resources r terrible but at least she has expressed that she really wants to learn about it. To many of us, we will welcome her just like that.

We welcome any parents and their values if they welcome our values too. I dont think deaf people shut parents out for simply the fact they implant their children but more of the attitude that makes us feel devalued. Here at my work, we welcome parents and many of the parents who are fluent signers r very involved with the deaf community and we love that. Just those who solely focus on the benifits of CI or getting their children to develop speech/listening skills r the ones that we don't feel connected to simply cuz they disgregard any accomplishments their children have done using ASL. It is like a wall when we tell them about their kids learning how to read and write at this level..they usually revert back to speec and listening skills. It gets so OLD fast cuz their children r a lot more than that!
 
Angel said:
Well alot of times CI users here rubs us in the wrong way by saying being deaf is sad and miserable!....:rl:
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While I'm sure what you say is true I have personally never seen any such posting.
 
shel90 said:
I try my best not to talk like that. Pls let me know if I don't use the words "some" or "many".

I agree with Cheri...I mentioned that I have seen about 2 parents participate in other threads other than the CI or oral therapy threads. U r one of them. :)

I applaud u for admitting that u didn't know much about Deaf culture or sign language and that u r willing to learn. I know in the past, I have taken some things that u have said out of context. I have learned from that to be more careful how I interpret people's POVs or posts. Thanks
Pls let me know if I don't emphazise some or many.

:)

Many of us who r involved with the deaf community do understand the need to learn how to interact with the hearing community and most of us don't want to completely isolate ourselves. We just hate it when people say that their children doesn't need to meet deaf people, see no need for sign language, or other cemments like that.

For example, Momoftoes lives in an area where she doesn't have easy acess to the deaf community or the resources r terrible but at least she has expressed that she really wants to learn about it. To many of us, we will welcome her just like that.

We welcome any parents and their values if they welcome our values too. I dont think deaf people shut parents out for simply the fact they implant their children but more of the attitude that makes us feel devalued. Here at my work, we welcome parents and many of the parents who are fluent signers r very involved with the deaf community and we love that. Just those who solely focus on the benifits of CI or getting their children to develop speech/listening skills r the ones that we don't feel connected to simply cuz they disgregard any accomplishments their children have done using ASL. It is like a wall when we tell them about their kids learning how to read and write at this level..they usually revert back to speec and listening skills. It gets so OLD fast cuz their children r a lot more than that!
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Thanks Shel, I appreciate that. What bothers me is that I keep hearing over and over all of these negative things about hearing parents yet I dont see alot of that here on this board. I admit that I don't visit every single thread but I do get around and I honestly dont come away with that negativity that I see so much about. In fact it's been quite the opposite.
 
Angel said:
Well alot of times CI users here rubs us in the wrong way by saying being deaf is sad and miserable!....:rl:
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I could say I agree with you. I know I have CI myself and always accept that I am deaf. Never feel miserable. I knew some ppl do but that's life.
 
I can understand that it looks like there is a lot of negativity towards the parents and I think I know why. Cheri brought up a good point about parents saying they come here to learn about deaf culture but it is kinda hard to believe that if they are not participating in the other threads besides the CI threads. Even the in the lame and silly threads...we see nothing from most of the parents.

Like, for example, with Jillo..she doesn't get much negativty from the deaf community but nor she does get much applause either. She is simply like most of us..there is dialogue about different topics with her. If the parents feel like they get too much negativity, maybe it is cuz they only participate in the CI threads which are more likely to have more negativity than the other threads except for the religion threads. Hehehe..

They don't have to participate in other threads but if those r the only threads they participate in then it is not a surprise they feel a lot of negativity?

Deaf Culture is not only about CIs..there r threads about Deaf Expos, ASL, Deaf events and so on..but I don't see many of the parents in those threads so it is natural that it feels like they aren't really interested in Deaf Culture itself.

I never said anything before cuz I didn't feel it was my place to make an issue out of it but because this thread brought up the questions of why they felt like they get so much negativity here, that I felt it was a good point to bring up.

Also, I am not sure but I rarely see bashings on the parents' personal threads about their children like ashleysmommy's thread about her daughter? If the threads are about CI or speech skills themselves, of course there will be differing views and some harsh words exchanged.
 
I can understand that it looks like there is a lot of negativity towards the parents and I think I know why. Cheri brought up a good point about parents saying they come here to learn about deaf culture but it is kinda hard to believe that if they are not participating in the other threads besides the CI threads. Even the in the lame and silly threads...we see nothing from most of the parents.

Like, for example, with Jillo..she doesn't get much negativty from the deaf community but nor she does get much applause either. She is simply like most of us..there is dialogue about different topics with her. If the parents feel like they get too much negativity, maybe it is cuz they only participate in the CI threads which are more likely to have more negativity than the other threads except for the religion threads. Hehehe..

They don't have to participate in other threads but if those r the only threads they participate in then it is not a surprise they feel a lot of negativity?

Deaf Culture is not only about CIs..there r threads about Deaf Expos, ASL, Deaf events and so on..but I don't see many of the parents in those threads so it is natural that it feels like they aren't really interested in Deaf Culture itself.

I never said anything before cuz I didn't feel it was my place to make an issue out of it but because this thread brought up the questions of why they felt like they get so much negativity here, that I felt it was a good point to bring up.

Also, I am not sure but I rarely see bashings on the parents' personal threads about their children like ashleysmommy's thread about her daughter? If the threads are about CI or speech skills themselves, of course there will be differing views and some harsh words exchanged.
 
shel90 said:
I can understand that it looks like there is a lot of negativity towards the parents and I think I know why. Cheri brought up a good point about parents saying they come here to learn about deaf culture but it is kinda hard to believe that if they are not participating in the other threads besides the CI threads.
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With all due respect I have to disagree with that. Read through those threads and you will find a lot about deaf culture interwoven throughout the posts. Alot of it comes from responses from people such as yourself that make sure the Deaf culture aspect is known. That helps create balance. One thing you have to consider is that not everyone is going to take the deaf route. That's a reality and each persons choice should be respected as long as they have done their homework. Just my opinion for what it's worth.
 
shel90 said:
I can understand that it looks like there is a lot of negativity towards the parents and I think I know why. Cheri brought up a good point about parents saying they come here to learn about deaf culture but it is kinda hard to believe that if they are not participating in the other threads besides the CI threads.
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What about Lilysdad? He participated in other parts of Alldeaf, learned to sign and even attended deaf events. What do you know - he was still made to feel unwelcome to the point that he decided to leave this site. I remember how enthusiastic he was about wanting to learn more about deaf culture but now he wants nothing to do with it and it's all to do with the reactions he has received. He still wasn't good enough because he had chosen to give his DD a CI.

It's a two way problem and people really have to acknowledge this.
 
rockdrummer said:
With all due respect I have to disagree with that. Read through those threads and you will find a lot about deaf culture interwoven throughout the posts. Alot of it comes from responses from people such as yourself that make sure the Deaf culture aspect is known. That helps create balance. One thing you have to consider is that not everyone is going to take the deaf route. That's a reality and each persons choice should be respected as long as they have done their homework. Just my opinion for what it's worth.
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Agreed.
 
Cheri said:
You came here to learn about the Deaf Culture? I haven't seen you posted in any other threads beside Cochlear Implants.

Most hearing parents don't have any experience with deafness and know nothing about it and many in the medical field tell them to contact speech therapists, or oral programs or encourage cochlear implants to try to "fix" their child. Don't tell me it isn't true, because it is true.

I've read posts by Parents with cochlear implants kids, some of them have talked about teaching their kids sign language, some have said that they don't use it too much, some says that it was not even need to use it anymore, some say they're just started learning and they don't see learning ASL should be requirement, because there's no deaf members in the family. I could go on and on.

You know what I missed most about those little kids, their using of sign language, their cute little hands signing that beautiful language, I haven't seen at least one deaf child with CI that knows sign language, not one. Maybe on this message board, but who knows really. :( It breaks my heart in pieces because they are robbed out of their Deaf Culture now being only involvement in the hearing world. It's sad to me it is.
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I am one of those parents that stays mainly in the CI threads. I do this because there is so much negativity toward some hearing parents. Not all I did say some. I do go to the other topics and read all the new posts. I try to educate myself as much as I can. I want my daughter to grow up knowing both deaf and hearing worlds. I am teaching her ASL (we are learning together that is) and she will be attending a deaf/blind school when she turns 3. She is being exposed to auditory and sign as ways to communicate. Like it has been said when the implant is not on the person is total deaf. She needs to have a way to communicate if she has a failure or if the implant just does not work for her. There are no guarantees and I want her to be prepared for anything. I try to stay clear of negativity. I just want to be able to raise my deaf child the best I can. I look to a lot of different sources to help and sometimes the best info can be personal experiences. I do brag at times as to how well she is doing so far. It excites me to see her react to sound. It also excites me when she understands a sign we have been working on. I think the little bit of sound is helping her to associate the sign with what it is. She loves ball and baby right now. She will pat my face for mama and she pats daddy's nose for daddy. Not perfect but she knows what they are. It is a start. Each parent has their own way of bringing up their children. I am not perfect and I am sure I will make some mistakes along the way. I am willing to learn from them and move on. My daughter is not any less special to me because she can not hear. She will be a stronger person and a better person because of all she has had to overcome just to learn. She has so many things that she is fighting. Her vision is impaired, she has sensory issues, developmental delays, and her hearing loss. It is a big deal for her to let me hold her hand. So I will be there for support all along the way to make sure she gets all the tools she needs. Sorry just wanted to add my thoughts.
 
Also, I think the point should be made that just because hearing parents don't post in other parts of AD it doesn't mean that they aren't reading them or learning from them. Everyone knows that CIs in children is controversial (this very thread shows that) and so you are going to get some uncertainty from parents about how people are going to react to them for making that decision. For this reason they may decide not to post in other non CI threads at all. It doesn't necessarily mean that they aren't interested.

Parents are also in a stage of their lives where they want support, not debate. The support can come from a range of people with a range of viewpoints and they do get that support from some people here. However, if they are constantly served negativity they will go away. Sorry, but that's how it is. No one wants to be around people who are constantly looking at and talking about them critically. Children eventually run away from parents who always put them down, for example. I think that mutual respect and positive constructive responses is definitely the way to go.
 
doubletrouble said:
That's baloney!! Of course, there will always be parents on both extreme sides, but the parents that I know of whose children have CI's , their children also sign. Is it fluent as a native ASL signer? No, but they can hold basic conversaion.... I , am lucky. I have a little microcosim of the Deaf community in my world. My parents are Deaf, my SIL's and BIL's are Deaf, thier children are deaf, and so is my son.... I am fluent in ASL....There is exposure to deafness all around my son.. yet, he goes to a hearing school, is fully mainstreamed, and is bi-laterally implanted. Does he sign as well as I'd like?? No, but he can have basic conversaton... And he is exposed to AS: every day..(my in-laws live 2 miles from me and they are over quite often). It is my 9 year old who tells me recently that he's "very lucky to be living in an era where he can hear and be deaf"... As much as my son is grateful for his implants, he is also grateful for his deafness as well. His deafness defines him just as much as any other personality trait- he just doesn't use it to be his primary trait....

Yes, there are parents who think that the CI is a "cure" for deafness... and those who are knowledgeable about CI's know that this is not the case.

Hey, it's our job as parents to do what we think is best for our children. There is no magic handbook that has all the answers. We do screw up now and again.. But I know in my case.. every decision that I have ever made about any of my children is well- thought out and all the options are weighed. And the CI is not for everyone.. just like ASL is not the answer as well.. There cannot be generalizations made about parents and their decisions. It's an individual choice.

Just my 2 cents... (for what it's worth).
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:werd:
 
Bottomline is that, unless asked, it is best to stay out of other people's parent child relationship. Like many others on this board I am raising a deaf child and had zero experience about deafness when I started. What I have learned is that there are many paths to take on this wonderous journey and that no one path is right for every deaf child and the trick is to find the right path(s) for your child. The best I can offer is to make well informed and reasoned decisions with your child's best interests always in your heart and mind, nothing is set in concrete and when all is said and done you know your child better than anyone else.

So having said that, I do have to say that I cringe when I read other parents' comments that giving your child the benefits and opportunities of a ci is not "accepting" your child for who she is or that it is "changing" her coupled with their definition of the "proper", i.e., only way to raise a deaf child. My daughter is deaf but that is not all she is and if you seek to define her by limiting her solely to her deafness then you have missed the essence of who she is. So accept the possibility that in this universe you are not the only one who is raising a successful, happy and well adjusted deaf child. Accept the fact that while others may have taken different paths we all probably have the same goals and desires for our children.
Rick
 
R2D2 said:
What about Lilysdad? He participated in other parts of Alldeaf, learned to sign and even attended deaf events. What do you know - he was still made to feel unwelcome to the point that he decided to leave this site. I remember how enthusiastic he was about wanting to learn more about deaf culture but now he wants nothing to do with it and it's all to do with the reactions he has received. He still wasn't good enough because he had chosen to give his DD a CI.

It's a two way problem and people really have to acknowledge this.
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It goes two way street R2D2, I've seen his responds, He tends to bite people's heads off whoever disagree with him or offer some advice, or share their experience, It's like walking on eggshell around those parents who don't want to hear our side but only want us to hear their side on why they made the choice of cochlear implants for their children. It’s a bit intense.

I do remember him stating that he attended the deaf event in St. Louis and how he said he experience some rude deaf people there, but we weren't the ones that went, I feel that he hold that against us somehow, it just the way he approach.
 
rick48 said:
Bottomline is that, unless asked, it is best to stay out of other people's parent child relationship.
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That's your best advice? See what I'm saying, It's like this, It's either your way or the highway, Who cares about our opinions and advices right? That's the point I have tried to make from the start. You just proven my point. Thank-you.
 
R2D2 said:
Okay, cool. Glad that you are much happier now. Do you have a better relationship with your family now that you have a definitive identity or was that something they never accepted? In other words, were they otherwise caring parents who could have been better educated?
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I don't have a better relationship with my family except my sister who just started to learn ASL. My parents said they tried their best, but their best robbed me of my childhood and my happiness.
 
rockdrummer said:
With all due respect I have to disagree with that. Read through those threads and you will find a lot about deaf culture interwoven throughout the posts. Alot of it comes from responses from people such as yourself that make sure the Deaf culture aspect is known. That helps create balance. One thing you have to consider is that not everyone is going to take the deaf route. That's a reality and each persons choice should be respected as long as they have done their homework. Just my opinion for what it's worth.
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Well due to respect rockdrummer, I dont agree with you, We deaf people know what's best for all of us, Most of us have shared the same experience in our life, We also learned from that experience and hope no other hearing parents make the same choice that our hearing parents have made for us, that's why it's important to hear us out, get the knowledge of what we have experience in our walks of life, I know for matter of fact a child would be more happier if parents give a child many opportunities as possible and be involvement in both worlds not one world. It's important to keep an open mind in all opportunities. That's all I'm saying. ;)
 
I have not seen any parents against sign here at this forum and thats why i don't get why parents get put down. Communicating verbally is a great tool to have,but people make such a fuss out of it about all the therapy and the strain to lip read. This is where implanting a child early comes in, communicating with a child today who was implanted early on dosent require as much strain as it did when a lot of you were growing up.
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Well........yes, nobody is actively AGAINST Sign. Even at places like Hearing Exchange or the SHHH boards, they don't bash it. But, they are not exactly pro-full toolbox friendly. They tend to really waffle on their stance.......like "Oh everyone's different!"
Kayla123, CI kids aren't any different from functionally HOH kids, either audilogically hoh or hoh with hearing aids. Yes, its a lot easier to learn speech now for someone who got very little benifit from hearing aids......the strain is less..........BUT, it still takes a lot of energy and a lot of work, EVEN for someone who is functionally HOH. And just b/c a kid does OK or well orally, it doesn't mean that they can't benifit from Deaf education or ASL or things like that. Yes, there are a lot of older people here.........but many of us aren't THAT old....I'm only 27......I still read Volta Voices and know MANY dhh kids and things haven't changed all that much!
 
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