It it really the deaf/Deaf community?

samanthasmom said:
Ok, 20 pages into this thread, I am ready to comment.

As some of you know, my child was born severe/profound. She was diagnosed at birth. I cannot express how devastated I was. Not my husband. (We are both hearing) He just kept telling me it would be ok. I do not quite know how to explain my feelings. I was worried about her futur, obviously. I have to be honest and say that I also was scared. I did not have a clue about raising a deaf child. I knew enough to know that it wasn't going to be the same as raising our other daughter. I immediately worried about what she would have to face in the world. I have seen the prejudice with my own eyes - long before she came along...(please forgive me for my choice of words and bear with me.. I am much better face to face, typing my thoughts has never been a strong suit of mine)

I randomly met a doctor who performed CI surgeries. He took the time to talk to me about my child. Told me how much this would help. Of course I believed him and still do think this was a great idea. Only thing is, we were also told that we should discourage the use of ASL. (I've said all of this in other posts) That is where I think the problem lies. Immediately set us up to reject the deaf community. (Not saying we didn't play a part in it) What I am saying is that we were trying to do what the professionals recommended to maximize the benefit of the course we chose. We were told all of the same things, "if she signs she won't be oral" and "deaf kids only read on a fourth grade level"...We were also told that "deaf people are really against CIs, look it up on the internet, blah, blah, blah.

Bottom line is, we didn't know what to do. I trusted the medical profession. (My husband has always left this type of decision up to me) While I had no reason to doubt this decision, I always had a nagging feeling that some day we would end up here.

She is still deaf and I absolutely want her to embrace that. Just as I want my oldest to embrace the fact that she is Greek.

I hope that made some sort of sense.

Shel, good post- number 585.. Jillio, you have created a great thread here, kudos to you for keeping it under control!!
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Thank you, samanthasmom, and I appreciate your honest post regarding your feelings and your experience. I especially find your statements regarding rejection important. You did not choose to reject the deaf community because of any thing that the deaf community had done, but because a hearing professional recommended it. Unfortunately, if people were to be completely honest regarding their feelings and their actions, I think that would be the case more often than not. A scared and confused parent is easy to convince, and it is my personal belief that the professionals quite often use that as an advantage to promote their own personal philiosophy. It is rare to find objectivity within the medical community when it comes to the choices of raising a deaf child.
 
faire_jour said:
My answer:

My daughter has a bilateral progressive hearing loss. She was born hearing but was found to have a moderate hearing loss at 18 months. She has been losing hearing ever since. Just before her 5th birthday she became severe (80-100 db). She is scheduled to have CI Nov. 3.

Miss Kat attends a bilingual bicultural school for the Deaf. She is becoming bilingual in both ASL and English (spoken and written). We chose the bi-bi school because we visited the oral and TC classrooms and they were full of kids without language. At 3 my daughter knew her colors, numbers, and her alphabet, the oral kids couldn't even understand their names. The TC kids weren't much better, they were working on simple nouns like "shoe". It was outrageous. When we visited the bi-bi school we saw normal, functioning kids who just happen to be Deaf. In her class she has 2 with CI's (she will make 3) 3 with hearing aids, and 2 unamplified Deaf of Deaf children. They are all accepted and supported equally.

Another reason we chose to send our child to the Deaf school was because we believe we are raising a Deaf adult, not a child. Some day she will be grown and will leave our home and face the world. We believe that every child with a hearing loss deserves access to the Deaf community. They are able to give us (hearing parents) a perspective and insight into our children that we will never be able to experience. They are Deaf, we are not. We believe that we if we listen, they have much to teach us.
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:gpost:
 
Daredevel7 said:
You guys do realize that it's hard to have faith in ANYONE here in AD? This is a child we are talking about. Most parents genuinely care about their child and would need a lot of faith in someone or a group of people to actually change their course of action. I mean if you listen to just Shel and Jillio with their articles and links to studies, it's easier to open your mind about the Bi-Bi philosophy, however, there's always at least one person with another article saying "Oh yea? Well here's an article that says TC/CS is successful" or a large group says "I was raised orally with the CI and did fine." No wonder why hearing parents are desensitized to advice given by deaf people because it's coming from all sorts of directions!

What about advice for what exactly to look for in an educational setting for a deaf child? I think it's better to have higher expectations in a child rather than lower, so you can tell the parents "Look, there is no reason why a deaf child should be behind in terms of development. So why don't you check out the schools in your local area? Here is an excellent source of info of different deaf schools in your area. You can also find out information about a deaf child in a mainstream school through an audiologist/speech therapist. Talk to the teacher of that deaf child." And so on. A hearing parent is more likely to make decisions for him/herself when s/he sees the actual information in the flesh rather than a bunch of random courses of action that s/he should take for their child. Isn't that what faire_jour did? I saw in some posts of hers that she saw how behind the deaf children were in certain schools, and took her daughter to a school that has a BiBi environment. Seeing deaf children behind in certain environments speaks VOLUMES... more than advice given by medical professionals and deaf adults.
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Yes, it would be better if parent's would get out there and visit the various placements available and see for themselves. Unfortunately, it is the hearing professionals themselves who quite often discourage this fact finding, and tell hearing parents that a choice of alternative placement is only to be considered after the child has demonstrated difficulty with the oral only environment. In is in this way, precisely, not not just educational lags, but developmental lags cognitively, emotionally, and socially, are created.
 
Daredevel7 said:
You guys do realize that it's hard to have faith in ANYONE here in AD? This is a child we are talking about. Most parents genuinely care about their child and would need a lot of faith in someone or a group of people to actually change their course of action. I mean if you listen to just Shel and Jillio with their articles and links to studies, it's easier to open your mind about the Bi-Bi philosophy, however, there's always at least one person with another article saying "Oh yea? Well here's an article that says TC/CS is successful" or a large group says "I was raised orally with the CI and did fine." No wonder why hearing parents are desensitized to advice given by deaf people because it's coming from all sorts of directions!

What about advice for what exactly to look for in an educational setting for a deaf child? I think it's better to have higher expectations in a child rather than lower, so you can tell the parents "Look, there is no reason why a deaf child should be behind in terms of development. So why don't you check out the schools in your local area? Here is an excellent source of info of different deaf schools in your area. You can also find out information about a deaf child in a mainstream school through an audiologist/speech therapist. Talk to the teacher of that deaf child." And so on. A hearing parent is more likely to make decisions for him/herself when s/he sees the actual information in the flesh rather than a bunch of random courses of action that s/he should take for their child. Isn't that what faire_jour did? I saw in some posts of hers that she saw how behind the deaf children were in certain schools, and took her daughter to a school that has a BiBi environment. Seeing deaf children behind in certain environments speaks VOLUMES... more than advice given by medical professionals and deaf adults.
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This is the EXACT reason we chose an Oral Only school for our child. I had the opposite problem- thinking that I was going to place my child in a bi-bi program and instead, after observing the Oral program, I saw things much differently. The comment you make can go either way...in my case, down the Oral route (something that I thought I would never entertain).
 
faire_jour said:
To open doors and to faciliate easier communication with hearing individuals.
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And what about the deaf child's ability to understand are saying to THEM? People often forget this part of the comunication equation...
 
deafskeptic said:
And what about the deaf child's ability to understand are saying to THEM? People often forget this part of the comunication equation...
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I didn't say that it should be the only way they communicate, but we were asked "why bother?" and I think oral skills are important so I stated why I do. I think the ability to ask were they bathroom is without a pen and paper would be a good thing, not bad.
 
Perhaps you don't find the term "hearing impaired" offensive, but others certainly do. Therefore, you are welcome to use it in reference to yourself, if you so choose, but please do not use it to refer to others in this thread.
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I was referring to MY experience. The teachers were referred as Teacher for the Hearing Impaired, and the children were not referred to as deaf or hard of hearing. This is MY experience. Also, the classroom was for hearing impaired children. I didn't refer anyone here or She'ls students hearing impaired.

The children that are coming into Shel's program with CIs are the ones that have not been able to achieve the degree of success of which you speak in the mainstream, all oral environment. They are the ones that continue to need more than just auditory input for undertanding of the material in the classroom and the world around them. Seeing how children who do function with purely auditory input is not something that would benefit the children that are in Shel's classroom.
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I understand what you're saying, but if parents want an education with signs along with speech all day because it's part of their continuous learning auditory inputs, that's what I understand why it's part of the CI and speech skills. It's why I recommend learning about how CI works from an experienced professional, so that Shel may familiarize why auditory inputs is needed all day in a classroom whether or not sign language is taught.

And again, please keep in mind that this topic is in reference to hearing parents claiming that they have been "rejected" by the deaf community and why they don't expose their deaf child to the deaf community, not about CI or education. Please stick to the topic.
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I feel that one of the rejections they feel is stemming from their choice to have their children have oralism and CI. That's my opinion. If it's off-topic as you feel, then simply ignore my post.
 
ClearSky said:
I was referring to MY experience. The teachers were referred as Teacher for the Hearing Impaired, and the children were not referred to as deaf or hard of hearing. This is MY experience. Also, the classroom was for hearing impaired children. I didn't refer anyone here or She'ls students hearing impaired.



I understand what you're saying, but if parents want an education with signs along with speech all day because it's part of their continuous learning auditory inputs, that's what I understand why it's part of the CI and speech skills. It's why I recommend learning about how CI works from an experienced professional, so that Shel may familiarize why auditory inputs is needed all day in a classroom whether or not sign language is taught.



I feel that one of the rejections they feel is stemming from their choice to have their children have oralism and CI. That's my opinion. If it's off-topic as you feel, then simply ignore my post.
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I understand your point of view. I understand how speech therapy works and etc but I am not a certified speech therapist so it is not my job to train them on speech skills. My job is to teach them from A to Z relating to the curriculm plus more.

So, I hope I got your point correctly so if I responded with the wrong interpretation, pls disregard my post.

Thanks!
 
faire_jour said:
I didn't say that it should be the only way they communicate, but we were asked "why bother?" and I think oral skills are important so I stated why I do. I think the ability to ask were they bathroom is without a pen and paper would be a good thing, not bad.
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Yea, I understand where u are coming from ..of course, always give every child the opportunity to learn speech skills. Just like giving every child the opportunity to learn sign language and use it to learn new concepts ...
 
doubletrouble said:
This is the EXACT reason we chose an Oral Only school for our child. I had the opposite problem- thinking that I was going to place my child in a bi-bi program and instead, after observing the Oral program, I saw things much differently. The comment you make can go either way...in my case, down the Oral route (something that I thought I would never entertain).
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So, your son doesnt know sign language? Is he able to understand everything in the classroom just like his hearing peers do? Just wondering...
 
For the past 3 years, I have declined sign language interpreters, why? Cause they're people with emotions and they take things too personal. HORSESH!T.
 
imdeafsowhat said:
For the past 3 years, I have declined sign language interpreters, why? Cause they're people with emotions and they take things too personal. HORSESH!T.
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Oh...I see...sign language interpreters are too emotional? Interesting.
 
Tousi said:
Yeah, too bad that Attention Whore thread was locked up, eh!? :lol:
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It was? I didnt know that...havent been on AD much via cpu..just thru my SK and I dont get to see as much as I do on the cpu. :)
 
shel90 said:
I understand your point of view. I understand how speech therapy works and etc but I am not a certified speech therapist so it is not my job to train them on speech skills. My job is to teach them from A to Z relating to the curriculm plus more.

So, I hope I got your point correctly so if I responded with the wrong interpretation, pls disregard my post.

Thanks!
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They would want you to be a speech therapist, just a teacher of the deaf. There are lots of teachers of the deaf who use spoken language in their classrooms.
 
faire_jour said:
They would want you to be a speech therapist, just a teacher of the deaf. There are lots of teachers of the deaf who use spoken language in their classrooms.
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Ok but I am deaf and if I use spoken language in the classroom all the time, my students will misunderstand me and then I will misunderstand them often. Is that considered effective teaching? Some of my students do not understand spoken English in a group setting...just like I dont. So, what do u propose?
 
faire_jour said:
I didn't say that it should be the only way they communicate, but we were asked "why bother?" and I think oral skills are important so I stated why I do. I think the ability to ask were they bathroom is without a pen and paper would be a good thing, not bad.
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Unfortunately, not everyone can pick up speech so there have to be alternatives to speech for some.
 
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shel90 said:
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This made me re-think about my life.
 
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