It it really the deaf/Deaf community?

[Byrdie714]

I guess it depends on the person and who they are exposed to.

Thanks, Byrdie.

Exactly.

 

[Bottesini]

I had one teenager that did that to me once. I let him have his moment with his friends and after everything was said and done--I went up to him and told him off in spoken English and I would never forget the look on his face...

Good for you! My habit also.

 

[ClearSky]

My thoughts exactly...when I read that post, I was thinking of all the programs set up for children from poverished environments, neglected children, and etc..all these programs were made possible due to people advocating and fighting for these children's rights.

Why is it ok to say "yes, some deaf children will be neglected but not all" as an excuse to continue with the problems that many deaf children are put in?

Yes, parents' have rights but should their rights come first before children's needs or rights?

I would really want to know the answer to that question.
Thanks

Shel, from reading your post before, it seems to me that you have a different view from parents. You want to teach sign language and not care much about implementing the oral method if that's what the parent wants. You say you don't want to do much of it. I see that the way things are different now because more children are having CI, it's a reality. Things evolve if a technology emerges into the world.

Sometimes, it takes to get out of the familiar and learn new things even if you have your perspective. I asked what you thought about watching successful CI children with families or other schools to familiarize yourself about CI in a previous post. I know it's a deaf school, but it seems that there's no guarantee that deaf schools will stay open.

I know of a classroom for hearing impaired children I was in, and the teacher that was in the class no longer had hearing impaired children because they went to mainstream schools. She is a teacher for hearing children at the elementary school. You feel threatened that your degree will no longer be useful.

I don't know about that, but I do know that sometimes technology evolves overtime. It takes time to open our minds to a transition. It seems that you want to shut out parents who also have a say in what they want also for their children. It seems you want bi-bi only and throw out teaching speaking.

You know about ASL, and its education, but have you been open to learning about CI education for the other children as well?

 

[shel90]

Shel, from reading your post before, it seems to me that you have a different view from parents. You want to teach sign language and not care much about implementing the oral method if that's what the parent wants. You say you don't want to do much of it. I see that the way things are different now because more children are having CI, it's a reality. Things evolve if a technology emerges into the world.

Sometimes, it takes to get out of the familiar and learn new things even if you have your perspective. I asked what you thought about watching successful CI children with families or other schools to familiarize yourself about CI in a previous post. I know it's a deaf school, but it seems that there's no guarantee that deaf schools will stay open.

I know of a classroom for hearing impaired children I was in, and the teacher that was in the class no longer had hearing impaired children because they went to mainstream schools. She is a teacher for hearing children at the elementary school. You feel threatened that your degree will no longer be useful.

I don't know about that, but I do know that sometimes technology evolves overtime. It takes time to open our minds to a transition. It seems that you want to shut out parents who also have a say in what they want also for their children. It seems you want bi-bi only and throw out teaching speaking.

You know about ASL, and its education, but have you been open to learning about CI education for the other children as well?

I don't use the term "hearing impaired"..I use deaf or hard of hearing.

Again with the assumptions that I want to throw speech completely out the window...where have I stated I believe in ASL only with no spoken language for the children?

I have said this before to many others in many threads many times, I believe in both and expose all deaf children to both. I am kinda getting tired of clearing up the incorrect statements about my beliefs.

Just because I support ASL doesn't mean I don't support speech skills. I am more concerned with the children's language development and acquiring higher critical thinking skills than anything else.

The other statements u have made are totally false. Pls ask me before assuming all these things about me..

I have seen what happens year after year when children don't get both including implanted children and iam advocating for a better system for all deaf children so none of them will fall thru the cracks.

Nothing about throwing speech out the window. I even use spoken English with some of my students on an one-on-one basis and even those who get benefit from auditory input still need the support from ASL when learning new concepts.

It is all about giving them all the tools not just one tool over another whether it is ASL, speech and etc.

The BiBi approach allows for that which is why I believe in it strongly.

If others don't believe in it, fine. I am the one who works with these kids on a daily basis and I see that the same old problems still happen despite CIs.

If I lose my teaching job due to oralism, that's it with teaching for me. I can easily find another career because I am that determined so Iam not fearful as u mistakenly assumed. What I fear are those children who still need ASL or a visual language will be undereducated in the mainstreamed prgrams. Not all children benefit from CIs and I have seen proof of that over the years. Now, this is not a criticism..it is a fact.

I can safetly assume that you advocate for the parents' rights while I advocate for the children's rights so maybe due to that, we probably will have differing views and that's ok.

What I don't like is when people make assumptions about me without asking and I really didn't appreciate all the "you' statements about what goes on in my life or about howq I think. I am the only person who thinks for myself not anyone else so pls do not do that again. Thank u.

*getting off my soapbox about Deaf education and CIs*

Sorry Jillo.

 

[jillio]

Shel, from reading your post before, it seems to me that you have a different view from parents. You want to teach sign language and not care much about implementing the oral method if that's what the parent wants. You say you don't want to do much of it. I see that the way things are different now because more children are having CI, it's a reality. Things evolve if a technology emerges into the world.

Sometimes, it takes to get out of the familiar and learn new things even if you have your perspective. I asked what you thought about watching successful CI children with families or other schools to familiarize yourself about CI in a previous post. I know it's a deaf school, but it seems that there's no guarantee that deaf schools will stay open.

I know of a classroom for hearing impaired children I was in, and the teacher that was in the class no longer had hearing impaired children because they went to mainstream schools. She is a teacher for hearing children at the elementary school. You feel threatened that your degree will no longer be useful.

I don't know about that, but I do know that sometimes technology evolves overtime. It takes time to open our minds to a transition. It seems that you want to shut out parents who also have a say in what they want also for their children. It seems you want bi-bi only and throw out teaching speaking.
You know about ASL, and its education, but have you been open to learning about CI education for the other children as well?

Speech is never taught in a classroom. It is sometimes written in as an adjunct service in the IEP for mainstreamed deaf students, and it is offered as an adjunct through most bi-bi and TC programs. However, it is not now, nor has it ever been a part of the curriculum. The purpose of a classroom is to teach the curriculum.

And just as I have asked that posters make "I" statements rather than "you" statements, I will also ask that the term "hearing impaired" not be used as it carries a negative connotation for many, and can be taken as offensive.

 

[jillio]

I don't use the term "hearing impaired"..I use deaf or hard of hearing.

Again with the assumptions that I want to throw speech completely out the window...where have I stated I believe in ASL only with no spoken language for the children?

I have said this before to many others in many threads many times, I believe in both and expose all deaf children to both. I am kinda getting tired of clearing up the incorrect statements about my beliefs.

Just because I support ASL doesn't mean I don't support speech skills. I am more concerned with the children's language development and acquiring higher critical thinking skills than anything else.

The other statements u have made are totally false. Pls ask me before assuming all these things about me..

I have seen what happens year after year when children don't get both including implanted children and iam advocating for a better system for all deaf children so none of them will fall thru the cracks.

Nothing about throwing speech out the window. I even use spoken English with some of my students on an one-on-one basis and even those who get benefit from auditory input still need the support from ASL when learning new concepts.

It is all about giving them all the tools not just one tool over another whether it is ASL, speech and etc.

The BiBi approach allows for that which is why I believe in it strongly.

If others don't believe in it, fine. I am the one who works with these kids on a daily basis and I see that the same old problems still happen despite CIs.

If I lose my teaching job due to oralism, that's it with teaching for me. I can easily find another career because I am that determined so Iam not fearful as u mistakenly assumed. What I fear are those children who still need ASL or a visual language will be undereducated in the mainstreamed prgrams. Not all children benefit from CIs and I have seen proof of that over the years. Now, this is not a criticism..it is a fact.

I can safetly assume that you advocate for the parents' rights while I advocate for the children's rights so maybe due to that, we probably will have differing views and that's ok.

What I don't like is when people make assumptions about me without asking and I really didn't appreciate all the "you' statements about what goes on in my life or about howq I think. I am the only person who thinks for myself not anyone else so pls do not do that again. Thank u.

*getting off my soapbox about Deaf education and CIs*

Sorry Jillo.

Not a problem!

 

[ClearSky]

I am not bothered by the word hearing impaired. I don't see that as negative, and I think when we are asked to stop using that term is why it's so hard to get along sometimes. Many people find the word hearing impaired to work for them in real life other than deaf. I think we should let each individual use whatever word they want. Some might get offended, but why? It's not like we are putting them down with it.

Sorry Shel, my post were stating what I think you seem to have come across in other posts. Sorry for all the "you" statement. Didn't mean to get you defensive or offended.

Also, I can understand why parents want to have speech skills all day. It is part of the CI auditory skills and speech, whether or not sign language is used. It's part of the development of auditory skills. Not just on one-to-one group situation. It's a skill that is part of auditory skills everyday, but if you don't want to speak all day as it seems, then I don't know how someone can help you with that.

You don't explain to me if you care to see how other successful CI children do to help you with your CI children in your classroom or learn methods that could help you and your student. I am not saying you'll make your students successful, but I think maybe you could learn something. Auditory skills and speech are different things from ASL. I am sure there's other methods to teach children in oral education or CI that isn't taught in Deaf Education. If it's because your only belief is Bi-Bi, then there's nothing more to say.

 

[faire_jour]

Question: why teach a deaf person to speak when they can't hear themselves?

To open doors and to faciliate easier communication with hearing individuals.

 

[faire_jour]

I don't use the term "hearing impaired"..I use deaf or hard of hearing.

Again with the assumptions that I want to throw speech completely out the window...where have I stated I believe in ASL only with no spoken language for the children?

I have said this before to many others in many threads many times, I believe in both and expose all deaf children to both. I am kinda getting tired of clearing up the incorrect statements about my beliefs.

Just because I support ASL doesn't mean I don't support speech skills. I am more concerned with the children's language development and acquiring higher critical thinking skills than anything else.

The other statements u have made are totally false. Pls ask me before assuming all these things about me..

I have seen what happens year after year when children don't get both including implanted children and iam advocating for a better system for all deaf children so none of them will fall thru the cracks.

Nothing about throwing speech out the window. I even use spoken English with some of my students on an one-on-one basis and even those who get benefit from auditory input still need the support from ASL when learning new concepts.

It is all about giving them all the tools not just one tool over another whether it is ASL, speech and etc.

The BiBi approach allows for that which is why I believe in it strongly.

If others don't believe in it, fine. I am the one who works with these kids on a daily basis and I see that the same old problems still happen despite CIs.

If I lose my teaching job due to oralism, that's it with teaching for me. I can easily find another career because I am that determined so Iam not fearful as u mistakenly assumed. What I fear are those children who still need ASL or a visual language will be undereducated in the mainstreamed prgrams. Not all children benefit from CIs and I have seen proof of that over the years. Now, this is not a criticism..it is a fact.

I can safetly assume that you advocate for the parents' rights while I advocate for the children's rights so maybe due to that, we probably will have differing views and that's ok.

What I don't like is when people make assumptions about me without asking and I really didn't appreciate all the "you' statements about what goes on in my life or about howq I think. I am the only person who thinks for myself not anyone else so pls do not do that again. Thank u.

*getting off my soapbox about Deaf education and CIs*

Sorry Jillo.

And what about the ones who are succeeding? Is it ok if they are in an auditory setting?

 

[samanthasmom]

Ok, 20 pages into this thread, I am ready to comment.

As some of you know, my child was born severe/profound. She was diagnosed at birth. I cannot express how devastated I was. Not my husband. (We are both hearing) He just kept telling me it would be ok. I do not quite know how to explain my feelings. I was worried about her futur, obviously. I have to be honest and say that I also was scared. I did not have a clue about raising a deaf child. I knew enough to know that it wasn't going to be the same as raising our other daughter. I immediately worried about what she would have to face in the world. I have seen the prejudice with my own eyes - long before she came along...(please forgive me for my choice of words and bear with me.. I am much better face to face, typing my thoughts has never been a strong suit of mine)

I randomly met a doctor who performed CI surgeries. He took the time to talk to me about my child. Told me how much this would help. Of course I believed him and still do think this was a great idea. Only thing is, we were also told that we should discourage the use of ASL. (I've said all of this in other posts) That is where I think the problem lies. Immediately set us up to reject the deaf community. (Not saying we didn't play a part in it) What I am saying is that we were trying to do what the professionals recommended to maximize the benefit of the course we chose. We were told all of the same things, "if she signs she won't be oral" and "deaf kids only read on a fourth grade level"...We were also told that "deaf people are really against CIs, look it up on the internet, blah, blah, blah.

Bottom line is, we didn't know what to do. I trusted the medical profession. (My husband has always left this type of decision up to me) While I had no reason to doubt this decision, I always had a nagging feeling that some day we would end up here.

She is still deaf and I absolutely want her to embrace that. Just as I want my oldest to embrace the fact that she is Greek.

I hope that made some sort of sense.

Shel, good post- number 585.. Jillio, you have created a great thread here, kudos to you for keeping it under control!!

 

[faire_jour]

A Parent asked me why I chose the school for my daughter

My answer:

My daughter has a bilateral progressive hearing loss. She was born hearing but was found to have a moderate hearing loss at 18 months. She has been losing hearing ever since. Just before her 5th birthday she became severe (80-100 db). She is scheduled to have CI Nov. 3.

Miss Kat attends a bilingual bicultural school for the Deaf. She is becoming bilingual in both ASL and English (spoken and written). We chose the bi-bi school because we visited the oral and TC classrooms and they were full of kids without language. At 3 my daughter knew her colors, numbers, and her alphabet, the oral kids couldn't even understand their names. The TC kids weren't much better, they were working on simple nouns like "shoe". It was outrageous. When we visited the bi-bi school we saw normal, functioning kids who just happen to be Deaf. In her class she has 2 with CI's (she will make 3) 3 with hearing aids, and 2 unamplified Deaf of Deaf children. They are all accepted and supported equally.

Another reason we chose to send our child to the Deaf school was because we believe we are raising a Deaf adult, not a child. Some day she will be grown and will leave our home and face the world. We believe that every child with a hearing loss deserves access to the Deaf community. They are able to give us (hearing parents) a perspective and insight into our children that we will never be able to experience. They are Deaf, we are not. We believe that we if we listen, they have much to teach us.

 

[Buffalo]

Question: why teach a deaf person to speak when they can't hear themselves?

Yeah, I wondered about that when they went for Oralism in 1800's. I once saw an old film where a man said that since a deaf child has voice so teach that child to speak. I was thinking... hey, hearing people have hands so why they don't learn to sign. I find that sick.

 

[Cloggy]

Okay, I'll go along......... I grew up a CODA... in a time where there was no ADA, SSI, etc. I was my parents ears (for lack of a better phrase)and advocate. We did not have a phone in our home until I was 10 years old. My parents never saw the need. I would just walk up to town (3 blocks away) and use a public pay phone to make phone calls. I saw the injustice firsthand and experienced it. My mother (not my dad) threw it around that since she was Deaf, we were put on this earth to help her, nothing more. To her, that was the role of a hearing child. She was bitter and resentful of the hearing community and took jabs at me and my siblings every chance she got. My dad, on the other hand, complete opposite. He accepted who he was and worked very hard to provide a life for us. He owns two homes and has never asked for anything . As I became older, I became resentful of my mother's attitude towards me and life in general. I rebelled and told her that she was quite capable of doing things for herself- she didn't need me as her crutch. I remember the fighting when I resisted to do something- after all, my dad was capable, why wasn't she??? I wanted her to be as independent as much as she could, and she didn't want to. She clung to various family members to take care of her needs, and eventually they got tired and overwhelmed, and would push her aside. It took years of therapy to understand her and I do, but it doesn't change what has happened. I only share this with you so you understand that going forward, I was going to do everything I possibly could to make sure that if I ever had a deaf child, he/she would be independent. I became a job coach and an interpeter in the field, and I saw many, many heartbreaking situations in which Deaf children were left to fend for themselves, of being virtual strangers in their own homes. I remember making the committment at the time, "If I ever had a child who was deaf, I would defnitely send he/she to a bibi program". I remember the stories from my mom about how her hands would be tied up so she couldn't sign... and how my Dad didn't even know ASL until he was 22 years old.

Fast forward, I had a beautifual daughter... She was hearing... Then I had a set of twins, and I quickly suspected that something was wrong with one of them. I asked my MIL (there is deafness on my DH's side also) how did she know that she had a deaf child??? I remember her telling me that I was paranoid, the twins were premature, and I was over thinking the situation. But I knew in my heart that my son was deaf. I pulled strings and got him tested and sure enough at exactly 1 month old, my son was diagnosed as profoundly deaf. I was stunned. I always knew it could be a possiblity, but never really expected it. Until I met my DH, I never saw deafness go back to generations. I only knew of families that mother /father were Deaf and that was it. Never any children, or extended family. It was all new to me. I was devesated. I knew perfectly well what deafness would do to my child... I knew of the limiations and prejudice at work. I knew of people getting frustrated with a tty operator call and hanging up. I knew that REALISTICLY if my son wanted to be the President of a major wall street banking firm- it would most likely be out of the question. Not because he couldn't do it, but because of the barriers that other people have put up. I mourned for days. It was as if a part of me had died. I remember vividly that the last thing the audie said to me was that he was the perfect candidate for a ci. I immediately told her no thank you, we would not be interested and I knew which avenue to persue.

After my initial shock, I picked myself up and started the process of getting him enrolled in a program. I contacted EI and was told to look at ALL the programs in my area not just the one that I was familiar with. I told the social worker that it was pointless because I had already made up my mind as how my child was going to raised. She said she wouldn't be doing her job correctly if I didn't investigate every single avenue- so I went. And I remember vividly that day... I was in an oral only program with a pit in my stomach. I didn't even want to be there- it was against everything that I truly believed in (at the time). I walked into the classroom and really expected to see children struggling and sitting in hours and hours of speech. All the horror stories that my parents had told me growing up came flooding back to me. But then, I heard these children speak. It wasn't even about them speaking , as so much as it was that they were actually LISTENING and hearing what was being said. I couldn't believe my eyes. I was really stunned, to say the least. It was all new to me. There was no frustration on the children's parts and they were easily talking to each other and answering the teacher in appropriate ways. It truly was unbelievalbe. Right there and then, I had changed my mind. This was the route that we would choose for our child. This assistive device could actually bridge the gap from both worlds and the walls of isolation weren't that paramount any longer. We made this decision not because we didn't accpet our son- but because we wanted him to have a choice. Because if he , later on down the road , doesn't want the CI, he could always turn it off. If we waited, it's too late. My niece who eventually got implanted at the age of 9 1/2 says her biggest regret is that she was not implanted sooner. So I felt that by giving my son the CI, I gave him a choice later in life.

Because of my desicion, it became very ugly around our house- meaning extended family. Everyone had their 2 cents..and then it became worse with strangers. People I didn't even know would say the most nasitiest things to me- calling me a traitor, not accepting of a deaf child, and the worst of it all... my very own mother telling me that I am a lousy mother for deciding to implant my child.

As I have said in earlier posts, my son's deafness does not define him . It's just a part of who he is. I refuse to put him in speech for hours. That's not what it's all about. He is a child and I want him to grow up just like his brothers and sister. No hours upon hours of learning to speak- if he did great , if not so be it. Just because he is able to speak as well as a hearing child- that is just a bonus, but it was never expected. I would rather my child be out playing football (which he does) , baseball, basketball, and developing relationships with people than being stuck in therapy. I have offered deaf school to him in our many conversations and he is adamant about it- the answer is always no. I truly believe that we have given him the best of both worlds and because of this, he is extremely well adjusted child. He knows that he is deaf and is proud of who he is. I couldn't ask for anything more than that.

You did great... !!

 

[shel90]

Ok, 20 pages into this thread, I am ready to comment.

As some of you know, my child was born severe/profound. She was diagnosed at birth. I cannot express how devastated I was. Not my husband. (We are both hearing) He just kept telling me it would be ok. I do not quite know how to explain my feelings. I was worried about her futur, obviously. I have to be honest and say that I also was scared. I did not have a clue about raising a deaf child. I knew enough to know that it wasn't going to be the same as raising our other daughter. I immediately worried about what she would have to face in the world. I have seen the prejudice with my own eyes - long before she came along...(please forgive me for my choice of words and bear with me.. I am much better face to face, typing my thoughts has never been a strong suit of mine)

I randomly met a doctor who performed CI surgeries. He took the time to talk to me about my child. Told me how much this would help. Of course I believed him and still do think this was a great idea. Only thing is, we were also told that we should discourage the use of ASL. (I've said all of this in other posts) That is where I think the problem lies. Immediately set us up to reject the deaf community. (Not saying we didn't play a part in it) What I am saying is that we were trying to do what the professionals recommended to maximize the benefit of the course we chose. We were told all of the same things, "if she signs she won't be oral" and "deaf kids only read on a fourth grade level"...We were also told that "deaf people are really against CIs, look it up on the internet, blah, blah, blah. Bottom line is, we didn't know what to do. I trusted the medical profession. (My husband has always left this type of decision up to me) While I had no reason to doubt this decision, I always had a nagging feeling that some day we would end up here.

She is still deaf and I absolutely want her to embrace that. Just as I want my oldest to embrace the fact that she is Greek.

I hope that made some sort of sense.

Shel, good post- number 585.. Jillio, you have created a great thread here, kudos to you for keeping it under control!!

Clearsky and others...this is where the problem lies from the beginning...

Now, it seems like people are putting the responsibility on the Deaf community to accept parents and their children...what about the bolded statement? How is the Deaf community responsible for that?

Good posting Samanthasmom and believe me, you arent the only parent who has experienced the same thing. I have had parents in real life (IRL) tell me the practically the same story with the medical industry when their child was first diagnosed and they admitted the same thing as u did..they took their word and rejected the Deaf community out of fear due to believing the medical industry's lies and myth about the Deaf community and ASL.

 

[shel90]

Yeah, I wondered about that when they went for Oralism in 1800's. I once saw an old film where a man said that since a deaf child has voice so teach that child to speak. I was thinking... hey, hearing people have hands so why they don't learn to sign. I find that sick.

Amen to that!!!!

 

[shel90]

And what about the ones who are succeeding? Is it ok if they are in an auditory setting?

I was a successful oral deaf person by my parents', medical industry, and specialists' standards but yet, I wish I had both.

 

[shel90]

I am not bothered by the word hearing impaired. I don't see that as negative, and I think when we are asked to stop using that term is why it's so hard to get along sometimes. Many people find the word hearing impaired to work for them in real life other than deaf. I think we should let each individual use whatever word they want. Some might get offended, but why? It's not like we are putting them down with it.

Sorry Shel, my post were stating what I think you seem to have come across in other posts. Sorry for all the "you" statement. Didn't mean to get you defensive or offended.

Also, I can understand why parents want to have speech skills all day. It is part of the CI auditory skills and speech, whether or not sign language is used. It's part of the development of auditory skills. Not just on one-to-one group situation. It's a skill that is part of auditory skills everyday, but if you don't want to speak all day as it seems, then I don't know how someone can help you with that.

You don't explain to me if you care to see how other successful CI children do to help you with your CI children in your classroom or learn methods that could help you and your student. I am not saying you'll make your students successful, but I think maybe you could learn something. Auditory skills and speech are different things from ASL. I am sure there's other methods to teach children in oral education or CI that isn't taught in Deaf Education. If it's because your only belief is Bi-Bi, then there's nothing more to say.

Clearsky, here are the reasons and proof that many deaf children are falling behind due to not being able to understand everything being said in their environments...see the statements in red...

Signs of improvement at School for the Deaf, Riverside | Inland News | PE.com | Southern California News | News for Inland Southern California

New courses and tutoring sessions aren't the only steps the School for the Deaf, Riverside, has taken over the last two years to bring up student achievement.

Even making sure to use sign language in every conversation is a way to help students learn, according to Superintendent Mal Grossinger.

Efforts to improve student performance at the school may not show results for years. Many students arrive at the school after years in traditional public schools, often lagging far behind.

Deaf students do not pick up vocabulary at home in the same way as other students, who learn new words simply by hearing their parents talk, Grossinger said. Many do not begin learning English until they enter school, he said.

"The biggest challenge for our deaf students is that they don't have the language from home," Grossinger, who is deaf, said through a sign language interpreter.

That's one reason why Grossinger insists that staff members use sign language at all times, even during casual conversations among hearing people. The rule was in place before Grossinger arrived but wasn't always followed.

Students can then follow these conversations and develop language and social skills, he said. Many staff members who did not know sign language, including clerical and accounting staff members, are taking classes to learn it.

The school has taken other steps to bring up achievement and improve the atmosphere since Grossinger arrived in 2006 as interim superintendent to replace Harold Kund, who retired. Grossinger, 51, who lives in Riverside, became the permanent superintendent last year.

One of two state schools for the deaf in California, the school serves more than 450 students in preschool through 12th grade. Grossinger was a principal at the state's other school for the deaf, in Fremont, before coming to Riverside, and he has worked in deaf education for 25 years.

He said students who attend the School for the Deaf starting in preschool have a leg up on other students, many of whom wait until high school to enroll.

Few students at the school score proficient on state tests in English and math. This year the school's Academic Performance Index, which combines scores on state tests, was 408. The state target is 800 on a scale of 200 to 1,000.

One of the biggest challenges now facing the school is the requirement that all students pass the state's exit exam to earn a high school diploma.

The exam became a graduation requirement in 2006, but special education students could earn a diploma without passing it until last year's graduating class.

Students with disabilities can have accommodations on the test, such as an interpreter to sign an unfamiliar written word or phrase, but many students still struggle. Among students at the Riverside school who took it for the first time last year as 10th graders, only 6 percent passed the English portion and 16 percent passed math.

Earlier this week, teacher Sharon Vollmar went over idioms she referred to as "crazy English" in a class for seniors who have met all their graduation requirements aside from the exam. An example was "out of earshot."

"They use their eyes to listen and hear. To a deaf person, 'out of earshot' would be around the corner, behind a building where we can't see them," said Laurie Pietro, a spokeswoman for the school.

Later in the day, teacher John Vollrath had seven students come up with their own similes while four others worked on a computer program to build their reading and writing skills.

All of the students took the exam again last week, but won't get their results for several more weeks. Some said they are confident that if they didn't pass already, they will soon.

Josue Andrade said he began learning much more when he came to the school three years ago after attending regular public school in Los Angeles. Andrade, 19, said he used to be distracted easily, and sometimes interpreters were missing from his classes.

Now, he hopes to go to college to become an engineer, counselor or teacher.

"I wish I had come here earlier. I wish I had started in elementary," Andrade said through an interpreter. "My last three years have been awesome."

While preparing students for the exit exam, the school also has started honors classes and is preparing to offer advanced-placement courses.

Grossinger said he has gotten support from officials at the California Department of Education as he works to improve the school. One factor he can't control is salaries at the school, which are set by the state.

Teachers at the school and at schools for the blind and deaf in Fremont held a protest last month over their pay, which is lower than what teachers in nearby school districts earn.

Still, Vollrath said things at the school have gotten much better since Grossinger took over. Before that, the school was losing enrollment and some employees complained of intimidation and poor communication.

"If the politics of the time tend to be negative, you're going to have negativity on campus," said Vollrath, who has taught at the school for 28 years. "Right now it's very positive."





Again..I have stated numerous times, deaf children deserve the same rights to access to everything in the educational system just like hearing children do. This is unacceptable that deaf children fall behind in school like that simply because they arent provided with a visual language or visual cues.

 

[Daredevel7]

You guys do realize that it's hard to have faith in ANYONE here in AD? This is a child we are talking about. Most parents genuinely care about their child and would need a lot of faith in someone or a group of people to actually change their course of action. I mean if you listen to just Shel and Jillio with their articles and links to studies, it's easier to open your mind about the Bi-Bi philosophy, however, there's always at least one person with another article saying "Oh yea? Well here's an article that says TC/CS is successful" or a large group says "I was raised orally with the CI and did fine." No wonder why hearing parents are desensitized to advice given by deaf people because it's coming from all sorts of directions!

What about advice for what exactly to look for in an educational setting for a deaf child? I think it's better to have higher expectations in a child rather than lower, so you can tell the parents "Look, there is no reason why a deaf child should be behind in terms of development. So why don't you check out the schools in your local area? Here is an excellent source of info of different deaf schools in your area. You can also find out information about a deaf child in a mainstream school through an audiologist/speech therapist. Talk to the teacher of that deaf child." And so on. A hearing parent is more likely to make decisions for him/herself when s/he sees the actual information in the flesh rather than a bunch of random courses of action that s/he should take for their child. Isn't that what faire_jour did? I saw in some posts of hers that she saw how behind the deaf children were in certain schools, and took her daughter to a school that has a BiBi environment. Seeing deaf children behind in certain environments speaks VOLUMES... more than advice given by medical professionals and deaf adults.

 

[jillio]

I am not bothered by the word hearing impaired. I don't see that as negative, and I think when we are asked to stop using that term is why it's so hard to get along sometimes. Many people find the word hearing impaired to work for them in real life other than deaf. I think we should let each individual use whatever word they want. Some might get offended, but why? It's not like we are putting them down with it.

Sorry Shel, my post were stating what I think you seem to have come across in other posts. Sorry for all the "you" statement. Didn't mean to get you defensive or offended.

Also, I can understand why parents want to have speech skills all day. It is part of the CI auditory skills and speech, whether or not sign language is used. It's part of the development of auditory skills. Not just on one-to-one group situation. It's a skill that is part of auditory skills everyday, but if you don't want to speak all day as it seems, then I don't know how someone can help you with that.

You don't explain to me if you care to see how other successful CI children do to help you with your CI children in your classroom or learn methods that could help you and your student. I am not saying you'll make your students successful, but I think maybe you could learn something. Auditory skills and speech are different things from ASL. I am sure there's other methods to teach children in oral education or CI that isn't taught in Deaf Education. If it's because your only belief is Bi-Bi, then there's nothing more to say.

Perhaps you don't find the term "hearing impaired" offensive, but others certainly do. Therefore, you are welcome to use it in reference to yourself, if you so choose, but please do not use it to refer to others in this thread.

The children that are coming into Shel's program with CIs are the ones that have not been able to achieve the degree of success of which you speak in the mainstream, all oral environment. They are the ones that continue to need more than just auditory input for undertanding of the material in the classroom and the world around them. Seeing how children who do function with purely auditory input is not something that would benefit the children that are in Shel's classroom.

And again, please keep in mind that this topic is in reference to hearing parents claiming that they have been "rejected" by the deaf community and why they don't expose their deaf child to the deaf community, not about CI or education. Please stick to the topic.

 

[jillio]

To open doors and to faciliate easier communication with hearing individuals.

From whose perspective?