It it really the deaf/Deaf community?

jillio said:
Agreed. And I really do believe that hearing parents do a huge injustice to a deaf child when they lead them to believe that they can be just like their hearing peers, and that their deafness does not make a difference. They get out into the real world, and discover that reality is much much different from what they have been told.
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I am baffled by this as well. How can they just pretend that the child is hearing? Seems impossible. I know that the cochlear implant has enabled this denial, but I just find it unreal.

I don't know, guys. I'm so much for "naming and claiming" things. If the child can't hear, they're deaf. If they are deaf, you must make sure that child is well adjusted. In order to do that, you must give them access to the world around them. That means meeting their needs through sign language and speech. I think where alot of people fall short is they focus so much on speech that it becomes all inclusive. That's wrong in my mind. I think a greater emphasis on language developement would serve the deaf far more than an emphasis on speech skills.
 
My school district's teacher for the hearing impaired would inform me and other students of events for deaf students, and the place that employed her would let every teacher, who worked with deaf children, know about this. These teachers from many school distritcts would carpool the kids to be together with other deaf children ASL, oral, CI or both. They were mainstream children.

I am thinking the parents don't know what to expect or might not feel comfortable in that situation with their child. Maybe explore some alternatives to entice parents to have them attend the events with their children at the school. Have at least one event during the school year/hours for kids to mingle.
 
ClearSky said:
My school district's teacher for the hearing impaired would inform me and other students of events for deaf students, and the place that employed her would let every teacher, who worked with deaf children, know about this. These teachers from many school distritcts would carpool the kids to be together with other deaf children ASL, oral, CI or both. They were mainstream children.

I am thinking the parents don't know what to expect or might not feel comfortable in that situation with their child. Maybe explore some alternatives to entice parents to have them attend the events with their children at the school. Have at least one event during the school year/hours for kids to mingle.
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Enticing parents to attend events at the school might work on a limited basis. I believe, however, that what is really necessary is for hearing parents to venture outside their own comfort zone. Stepping outside that which is comfortable and familiar is the only way to gain a greater understanding of both self and others.
 
I think it might still be worth exploring other avenues rather than criticize them. Not all parents will react the same and be perfect parents.
 
ClearSky said:
I think it might still be worth exploring other avenues rather than criticize them. Not all parents will react the same and be perfect parents.
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It wasn't intended as criticism. It is an observation.
 
ClearSky said:
My school district's teacher for the hearing impaired would inform me and other students of events for deaf students, and the place that employed her would let every teacher, who worked with deaf children, know about this. These teachers from many school distritcts would carpool the kids to be together with other deaf children ASL, oral, CI or both. They were mainstream children.

I am thinking the parents don't know what to expect or might not feel comfortable in that situation with their child. Maybe explore some alternatives to entice parents to have them attend the events with their children at the school. Have at least one event during the school year/hours for kids to mingle.
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That is awesome. Our community is very, very small. The one little girl I know who is deaf maybe the only deaf person down here. When she was born, her parents had to take her 160miles to get the specialized testing needed to confirm that she was deaf. Once they found out she was, they had to make further trips to get her HAs. When her hearing deteriorated further they took her the necessary 160mi to see if she was a candidate for the CI. Once she was, they made the trip again for the surgery and the subsequent mappings. In the years since the diagnosis and her implantation, travel has become their "normal", so it's no big deal for them to travel the necessary miles to attend deaf events.
 
Angel said:
One thing I keep seeing repeatedly is some deaf people telling hearing parents that they must sign with their deaf children or the type of education they must chose for their child, I personally think that the hearing parents do not like to be critized.

There could be a lot of reasons why some hearing parents do not sign, perhaps one could be that they are around hearing people more than they are with deaf people OR they do not turn off their voices completely and sign to their deaf children on a daily basis . Who knows :dunno: My hearing parents still do not sign and no matter how many times I've told them to, nothing has changed but I still love them anyways.
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I agree with you. Looking at my family, pffft....they are not going to learn sign language. Am I angry with them? No. I don't expect them to know exactly what I am going through, but I do know that they try. I don't live close to my family, so I don't expect them to know sign language.
 
jillio said:
It wasn't intended as criticism. It is an observation.
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Some of the posters bring up criticism about what the parents don't do. Criticism is not going to bring parents together. What we can do is continue to be advocates and explore other ways to bring parents together rather than be baffled and criticize parents upbringing of deaf children. We don't know their situation fully. Deaf children have unique backgrounds. We cannot expect parents to understand completely. We can only educate, advocate, and come up with new ways to help them.

It is clear that each one of us have different ways of viewing things, so we'll probably not come to an agreement. We can come to a certain understanding or not at all.
 
jillio said:
Enticing parents to attend events at the school might work on a limited basis. I believe, however, that what is really necessary is for hearing parents to venture outside their own comfort zone. Stepping outside that which is comfortable and familiar is the only way to gain a greater understanding of both self and others.
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Exactly. The parents of the little girl I know had to do that. They had to, anyway, because of where I live, so it became "normal" for them to travel to deaf events and such. That is what they do. They took their infant daughter into the deaf community where she met other deaf kids and adults. As a result, they and she learned ASL. When she got her implant and had to make even more trips for the necessary appointments, that gave them another reason to connect with the deaf community. They took the atitude, "If we have to travel here, anyway, we might as well enjoy ourselves and learn while we do it..."

If it can work for her, it can be done for other deaf children.
 
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No one has answered my question regarding what they think about the Deaf Community disappearing. I think it does play a role whether it's conscious or not.

This is one article online:

http://www.blognow.com.au/SecondhandDeaf/50106/Cochlear_Implants.html

Some people view the implants as “insults” or “cultural genocide” because they negatively affect Deaf culture and the unity of the Deaf community.
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You can look up other articles online.

Perhaps this is where the cultural difference might be stemming from in the Deaf Community?
 
ClearSky said:
No one has answered my question regarding what they think about the Deaf Community disappearing. I think it does play a role whether it's conscious or not.

This is one article online:

"SECOND-HAND": Deaf Issues from a Hearing Perspective - Cochlear Implants - Blognow



You can look up other articles online.

Perhaps this is where the cultural difference might be stemming from in the Deaf Community?
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I doubt CI that has that effect on the Deaf Community, and I don't see the Deaf Community disappearing anytime soon because of the respect people have for ASL and that 'Deaf' history and the need to improve things.

I feel strongly that fear and ignorance are problems everywhere, even in the Deaf Community. But that need to band together is strong especially when adversity and opposition exist. It is a mixed bag - adversity sucks, but it also makes a group stronger for it. I suspect you will always find people with different opinions of how the world works in every culture. I also suspect if you understand the universal human conditions, you may understand the need for a Deaf Culture/Community to at least exist. It doesn't exist to be a pain in the neck for you, ya know! ;)

The trick is to be willing to respect each other and the differences we have! Granted, some people on 'both' sides seem to run rife with an alarming amount of disrespect. I certainly hope you won't clump me or some of others together with the ones who continue to practice such grave disrespect. I don't like it when individuals lump everyone together in a community to express an opinion only some have expressed, and that is such a serious fallacy to begin with. It's like saying all hearing parents are against CI and think it would destroy their hearing parents community. That is just silly, isn't it?
 
ClearSky said:
Perhaps this is where the cultural difference might be stemming from in the Deaf Community?
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Look at my post #471 (page 16). The cultural difference exists because of the rejection from the hearing community. The fact that the marriages between hearing and deaf were much higher in Martha's Vineyard than the rest of USA tells me that it was just a community rather than hearing and deaf communities in Martha's Vineyard back then.

I don't know if CIs will cause the deaf community to disappear. If the hearing parents continue to reject the deafness by having their kid implanted, the Deaf community might survive with those implanted kids who discovered the Deaf world and ASL.
 
ClearSky said:
Some of the posters bring up criticism about what the parents don't do. Criticism is not going to bring parents together. What we can do is continue to be advocates and explore other ways to bring parents together rather than be baffled and criticize parents upbringing of deaf children. We don't know their situation fully. Deaf children have unique backgrounds. We cannot expect parents to understand completely. We can only educate, advocate, and come up with new ways to help them.

It is clear that each one of us have different ways of viewing things, so we'll probably not come to an agreement. We can come to a certain understanding or not at all.
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How exactly, can that be accomplished if advocacy is labeled as "criticism"?
 
Liza said:
I doubt CI that has that effect on the Deaf Community, and I don't see the Deaf Community disappearing anytime soon because of the respect people have for ASL and that 'Deaf' history and the need to improve things.

I feel strongly that fear and ignorance are problems everywhere, even in the Deaf Community. But that need to band together is strong especially when adversity and opposition exist. It is a mixed bag - adversity sucks, but it also makes a group stronger for it. I suspect you will always find people with different opinions of how the world works in every culture. I also suspect if you understand the universal human conditions, you may understand the need for a Deaf Culture/Community to at least exist. It doesn't exist to be a pain in the neck for you, ya know! ;)

The trick is to be willing to respect each other and the differences we have! Granted, some people on 'both' sides seem to run rife with an alarming amount of disrespect. I certainly hope you won't clump me or some of others together with the ones who continue to practice such grave disrespect. I don't like it when individuals lump everyone together in a community to express an opinion only some have expressed, and that is such a serious fallacy to begin with. It's like saying all hearing parents are against CI and think it would destroy their hearing parents community. That is just silly, isn't it?
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I agree. The deaf community will never "disappear" as the deaf community is a larger group of all people with hearing loss. Deaf Culture is more limited in the members who ID as Deaf; however, I don't see it disappearing, either. There are Deaf Cultures all over the world. All cultures undergo change...and the Deaf Culture has undergone change and is continuing to undergo change. However, it serves a very specific purpose for those who ID as Deaf, and even for some who just ID as deaf, so I don't see it ever "disappearing". The purpose it fulfills is only slightly related to hearing loss.
 
jillio said:
How exactly, can that be accomplished if advocacy is labeled as "criticism"?
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My thoughts exactly...when I read that post, I was thinking of all the programs set up for children from poverished environments, neglected children, and etc..all these programs were made possible due to people advocating and fighting for these children's rights.

Why is it ok to say "yes, some deaf children will be neglected but not all" as an excuse to continue with the problems that many deaf children are put in?

Yes, parents' have rights but should their rights come first before children's needs or rights?

I would really want to know the answer to that question.
Thanks
 
Buffalo said:
Look at my post #471 (page 16). The cultural difference exists because of the rejection from the hearing community. The fact that the marriages between hearing and deaf were much higher in Martha's Vineyard than the rest of USA tells me that it was just a community rather than hearing and deaf communities in Martha's Vineyard back then.

I don't know if CIs will cause the deaf community to disappear. If the hearing parents continue to reject the deafness by having their kid implanted, the Deaf community might survive with those implanted kids who discovered the Deaf world and ASL.
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I guess your opinion of a hearing parent rejecting the deaf community is simply implanting their child. I hope a lot of deaf people do not share that opinion....

I have a problem with people saying that the deaf community is a result of hearing parents "rejecting" their child. Does that mean a Mexican community exists because parents reject their Mexican child? Of course not. Like Jillio said, a community exists because people with the same way of life, obstacles, issues, interests, etc. have a tendency to gravitate towards each other.

The one thing I hate about ANY community (more like some members of a community) is when they have a "us versus them" mentality. As if everyone is out to get them for being who they are.

I think people are afraid to say their fears. For the most part, people in this thread, have been well spoken and stated logical reasons for their thoughts. That's great, but I think a lot of people are driven by fear (from BOTH ends...). I will tell you my fear, but before I do so, I understand there's statistics/multiple stories/etc. to prove me wrong and I am fully aware that I could be 100% so very wrong and I could be labeled as "audist" or whatever you call 'em, but my fear is simply that if you teach a child ASL first (which I don't have a problem with) AND keep that child in an ASL environment for the most part of his/her school years, he/she will take a long time to be comfortable speaking. I don't care if he/she doesn't speak well, I just want him/her to be COMFORTABLE about communicating with the hearing world. It's hard to be comfortable about speaking if you're shy and most of your speaking happens in speech therapy. Yes theres the Bi-Bi philosophy, but if I'm not mistaken, the child HAS to choose to be mainstreamed, and, unless the child is full of confidence and wants to explore both worlds (which shows an incredible degree of maturity), it seems to me that a child would be comfortable to stay in the environment he/she was previously in. I just don't like seeing ADULTS who are not comfortable communicating with the general population. It could affect their career prospects or joining interest groups that the deaf community has a lack of.

What are your fears?

Remember... fears can sometimes be illogical. But that doesn't mean it wouldn't affect your choices, even subconsciously.
 
Daredevel7 said:
I guess your opinion of a hearing parent rejecting the deaf community is simply implanting their child. I hope a lot of deaf people do not share that opinion....

I have a problem with people saying that the deaf community is a result of hearing parents "rejecting" their child. Does that mean a Mexican community exists because parents reject their Mexican child? Of course not. Like Jillio said, a community exists because people with the same way of life, obstacles, issues, interests, etc. have a tendency to gravitate towards each other.

The one thing I hate about ANY community (more like some members of a community) is when they have a "us versus them" mentality. As if everyone is out to get them for being who they are.

I think people are afraid to say their fears. For the most part, people in this thread, have been well spoken and stated logical reasons for their thoughts. That's great, but I think a lot of people are driven by fear (from BOTH ends...). I will tell you my fear, but before I do so, I understand there's statistics/multiple stories/etc. to prove me wrong and I am fully aware that I could be 100% so very wrong and I could be labeled as "audist" or whatever you call 'em, but my fear is simply that if you teach a child ASL first (which I don't have a problem with) AND keep that child in an ASL environment for the most part of his/her school years, he/she will take a long time to be comfortable speaking. I don't care if he/she doesn't speak well, I just want him/her to be COMFORTABLE about communicating with the hearing world. It's hard to be comfortable about speaking if you're shy and most of your speaking happens in speech therapy. Yes theres the Bi-Bi philosophy, but if I'm not mistaken, the child HAS to choose to be mainstreamed, and, unless the child is full of confidence and wants to explore both worlds (which shows an incredible degree of maturity), it seems to me that a child would be comfortable to stay in the environment he/she was previously in. I just don't like seeing ADULTS who are not comfortable communicating with the general population. It could affect their career prospects or joining interest groups that the deaf community has a lack of.

What are your fears?

Remember... fears can sometimes be illogical. But that doesn't mean it wouldn't affect your choices, even subconsciously.
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Question: why teach a deaf person to speak when they can't hear themselves?
 
Byrdie714 said:
Question: why teach a deaf person to speak when they can't hear themselves?
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Same reason to teach blind people to read if they can't see. Takes more effort but opens opportunities.

Anyway, I'm not arguing my fear. Like I said, fear can be illogical, but it doesn't make it insignificant in your decisions. I'd like to think that I can get over my fear and really think out my decisions if I ever actually have a deaf child.
 
Daredevel7 said:
Same reason to teach blind people to read if they can't see. Takes more effort but opens opportunities.

Anyway, I'm not arguing my fear. Like I said, fear can be illogical, but it doesn't make it insignificant in your decisions. I'd like to think that I can get over my fear and really think out my decisions if I ever actually have a deaf child.
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Embrace your fears.
 
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